2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

louis · 2020-03-11 14:56:37

My point is that no one knows how many people have contracted the virus around the world. The 109,000 figure is for people who have been very ill, have been tested and have been found to have the virus. Until they do some random sample testing, we just don't know how many people have antibodies for the virus.

SpaceNut wrote:

Sometimes the news is ahead on the twitter and facebook while other times its just false in what it is saying. The same holds true of the news media outlets. So take everything with a large grain of salt.
Remember that you can make numbers say anything but its the question that needs to go with them that is left out...
We sort of know what to do for the flu virus but we still do not follow the rules by all. We do not cough into our sleeves, cover our mouths, cover our sneeze or face away from others, many still do not wash there hands and do not do it often enough. This include cleaning and washing often touched surfaces such as a work place desk, door knobs, floors, bathrooms....
These are all risk reducers for spreading and catching the virus in the first place even when there is no broad testing or vacine.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/home … li=BBnbcA0
hydrogen peroxide is water with an extra oxygen atom—hence the chemical distinction H₂O₂. While no longer recommended as a wound disinfectant (because it slows healing time), hydrogen peroxide has potent antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal, and bleaching properties.
Other such items that work such as vinegar which can be a universal cleaner for mold and mildew, Bleach can come in handy when you really want to disinfect or clean something.

Of course a strong immune system is what we all want but that is not the case.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellnes … li=BBnba9O
Most of this is risk reducing and keeping healthy.
Right now, more than 109,000 people around the world have contracted the novel coronavirus, and more than 3,800 have died

SpaceNut · 2020-03-11 16:47:13

It would seem based on the cruise ship infections, isolation and further military isolation only to still end up infected means that the cycle of all of this could be as great as 2 months even with the best of selection and isolation of people from each other.
This Is How to Know If You Should Be Tested for Coronavirus it is a respiratory disease.

By now, you probably know that the symptoms of coronavirus include a runny nose, cough, sore throat, aches and pains, and fever. The only problem? Those are also some of the symptoms of the common cold or the flu. Whether you have shortness of breath, a high persistent fever, and are unable to eat or drink any liquids—those are signs things are getting more severe."

Top federal health official says coronavirus outbreak is 'going to get worse' in the US

Globally, there are more than 119,000 confirmed cases and at least 4,291 deaths, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coro … ted_States

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-12 08:59:26

The article at the link below appears to have been given a reasonable amount of attention before it was released.

Some of the content is difficult (for me at least) to read, because it contains descriptions that I would rather not think about.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/does-coronav … 16551.html

One thing that I come away with is the conviction that this is NOT an illness to willingly court.

At one time, I had thought it might be better to become infected and ride out the resulting internal battle. Now I'm back to thinking a vaccine is a better solution. A well designed vaccine would stimulate the body to prepare to fight the infection.

I've seen a report or two suggesting that a few doctors are studying the blood of deceased individuals, to see if there might have been useful antibodies created in the unsuccessful fight against the invader.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-12 18:28:31

Just read a posting on the school district for the town of a population of roughly 5,000 and there is a confirmed case of the virus in a student. The school will be closed and cleaned at this point with possible opening tuesday next week as indicated in the post.

So are the numbers for your state correct?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-cor … li=BBnb7Kz

Are the numbers for other countries being anounced and correct?

'Complete saturation': Italian hospital receiving new coronavirus case every 5 minutes
The fear of not wanting to die would be a bit behind this reaction possibly...

There appears to be a google app for just about everything..
Google Maps update lets you know which businesses are affected by coronavirus

Grypd · 2020-03-12 20:33:43

With this virus even though in the UK we have 593 cases this is those who tested positive. In this we have between 5 to 10 thousand people infected who just are not carrying that much of a severe symptom.

This norovirus picks on those with pre existing conditions and those who are unlucky and using global figure that is averaging about 14%

kbd512 · 2020-03-13 14:37:07

tahanson43206,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but regular influenza viruses can also result in reduced lung function. However, the damage is also reversible, not permanent. The article you posted a link to seemed to indicate that the damage caused by the virus in some patients could also be reversed through exercise.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-13 16:23:09

The usual influenza respritory plugs the lung tissue up with mucus and flem production which is the lungs trying to flush the desease out of the body. The lungs are damaged when the mucus crusts over blocking the air being processed. So vaporizers are something that aids to slow the drying.
The ability to exercise whether healthy or not to get more lung capacity is just that as its the building of muscle.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-13 17:36:31

reposting:

The US is starting with cancelled large venue events of all types and while some sports will continue they will be televised without any crowd.
We have already seen store shelves empty of toilet paper, cleaning disenfecting products of all types, rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide ect.. some stores are getting in product but they are going just as fast as they come in.

GW Johnson wrote:

Well, it's starting to "hit" here in the US. My best guess is that this virus has an oddity or two about it. One seems to be infectiousness for perhaps a week before any detectable symptoms kick in. The other seems to be that this is about like a cold or a mild flu for most folks, but potentially very deadly for oldsters (like myself), especially those with underlying heart of breathing problems.
That first oddity is why the field tests taking temperature proved to be so ineffective at containing this outbreak. I might be wrong because the real data are not yet in, but that's what the available experiences to date very strongly suggest.
All I can say is stay away from crowds, Quaoar. I will do the same.

kbd512 wrote:

Italy's COVID-19 Mortality Statistics by Age Group:
Increasing cases of Covid-19 forces Italy into lockdown
40-49: 0.3%
50-59: 0.8%
60-69: 10.4%
70-79: 31.9%
80+: 56.6%

Thanks for the statistics as they are sobering for the population over 60 ....

SpaceNut · 2020-03-13 18:35:25

Today and hopefully with more actions to be had for the American people..declaring a national emergency is how we will enact the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act for what ever that means... as governors have also declare stat emergencies as well...

According to the latest FEMA report to Congress, which was transmitted Feb. 29, 2020, there is $42.6 billion in the Disaster Relief Fund, which can be tapped under a Stafford Act declaration.
In addition to declaring an emergency under the Stafford Act, the president also declared an emergency under the National Emergencies Act, which allows the Department of Health and Human Services to waive certain guidelines related to Medicare, Medicaid and SCHIP to address the coronavirus.

The declaration frees up as much as $50 billion in financial resources to assist Americans affected by the outbreak.

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-14 09:04:39

A few posts back, I reported having changed my thinking a bit, as the implications of actually engaging with the virus sank in. I had thought that it might be better to just go ahead and accept the virus (on a schedule to spread the demand on health services).

Now, to my amazement, a report appears to show that the entire nation of Great Britain is going to try that very thing:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/johnson-u-k- … 44660.html

Meanwhile, everyone I know is practicing elbow bumps and social distancing, and the local governments are closing down all non-essential gatherings as a strategy to slow progress of the disease.

Because several members of this forum are part of the Grand Experiment underway in Britain, I'll be watching for news of how it is going.

(th)

louis · 2020-03-14 09:12:50

It's basically what all nations are trying to do - to flatten the peak of cases so hospital facilities aren't overwhelmed - but each country is adopting slightly different methods. It's impossible to contain the virus. No one has immunity and some people are asymptomatic. So it's going to spread, whatever you do...the only question is how quickly.

The UK is not closing down schools and universities, unlike most European countries. Most of our big sporting fixtures have now been abandoned, mostly by the sporting authorities themselves.

tahanson43206 wrote:

A few posts back, I reported having changed my thinking a bit, as the implications of actually engaging with the virus sank in. I had thought that it might be better to just go ahead and accept the virus (on a schedule to spread the demand on health services).
Now, to my amazement, a report appears to show that the entire nation of Great Britain is going to try that very thing:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/johnson-u-k- … 44660.html
Meanwhile, everyone I know is practicing elbow bumps and social distancing, and the local governments are closing down all non-essential gatherings as a strategy to slow progress of the disease.
Because several members of this forum are part of the Grand Experiment underway in Britain, I'll be watching for news of how it is going.
(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-14 17:31:37

repost

GW Johnson wrote:

What you say is true, Kbd512. However, any death rate is undesirable.
This one has some oddities to it that made its sudden appearance hard to deal with. The "usual" isolation and quarantine procedures seem less effective, probably because people carrying the virus are contagious before showing any other symptoms.
A lot of people are going to catch this virus. The great bulk of those will suffer symptoms about like a head cold. The hardest thing to endure is the quarantine, not the illness itself.
The problem is another little oddity about this bug: it kills a high percentage of the oldsters it infects. The older you are the higher the death rate. To something near 30% at my age, if the available data are correct.
The death rate is even higher yet for those with underlying heart or breathing problems, when they get infected. Those two things overlap, and I'm not at all sure the data reflect splitting that out. But regardless, here's the pandemic we all wish we could have avoided.
What's important is to work together and deal with this thing as best we know how. Once it is over, then if there really are any miscreants, we hold them accountable.
You may not like the scare publicity, but that's how we get people to stay away from crowds, and practice better hygiene. Which are pretty much the only things we know how to do with this bug so far.
GW

From the high rate we should only quarantine those over 60 and with health issues clear of the general public if no contagion is present in any of them or the team that must stay with the patients.

Since most do not work in that age group what sort of benefits are they going to recieve since the law which is being worked on is for the working and not the poor or homeless.

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-14 18:44:33

This is for Terraformer re topic ...

I was curious to see what the virus looks like, and found a decent selection of recent electron microscope views of the virus. Most of the images i found have been colorized so the virus itself is easily recognizable as it emerges from the cells it has infested.

The reason I was looking for those images was to try to understand what would be involved in identifying the virus through electromagnetic imaging. It's not clear to me at this point if the virus shown in the images can be differentiated (as by a human doctor scanning the image) from any other virus with a similar configuration.

I was (and still am) wondering if there might be a simple electromagnetic scanning technique that would rapidly determine if a given sample of liquid contains the virus.

Would someone in the forum be willing to add a post about how the existing virus tests work?

I'm assuming they are biological, but perhaps not. A biological test requires an extended time for a culture to grow.

An electromagnetic imaging technique would (presumably) be much faster.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-14 19:43:51

As far as I know its a dna emyzene detection..

SpaceNut · 2020-03-14 20:05:21

post moved:

kbd512 wrote:

Louis,
You have my apology for straying off-topic, but some people here can't stop injecting their personal ideology into absolutely everything that happens in this world.
SpaceNut,
Feel free to move this reply to the COVID-19 thread.
GW,
Tell me what you think President Trump lied about, as it relates to the COVID-19 virus.
I think what you really meant to say is that your ideology prevents you from ever thinking about any event or issue from anything other than your personal ideology-driven perspective. In effect, you're drowning in your ideology and can't even consider, much less accept that someone else will have a difference of opinion without calling their difference of opinion a "lie" or "misrepresentation of the truth". If President Trump said the sky was blue, you'd claim he lied about that, too, or somehow "misrepresented" the facts (because somewhere on Earth there were clouds in the sky).
Tell me why you think the Swine Flu didn't make front page news after it had already killed more Americans than COVID-19.
You do realize that there's now an on-line record of everything the media states, right?
For everyone else, history didn't begin yesterday or a month ago or even four years ago.
A Tale Of Two Pandemics: Media Downplayed Swine Flu Outbreak Under Obama
You must know by now that I'll call out this ideologically-motivated hypocrisy every time someone states something contrary to what's so simple and easy to find, right?
From the article:
Unprecedented? Really? Do CNN’s reporters and editors not know about the flu pandemic of 1918? Or even the swine flu pandemic of 2009?
Although everyone seems to have forgotten the swine flu was even a thing, it infected nearly 61 million people in the U.S. from spring 2009 through early 2010. And it claimed as many as 18,000 lives, according to a Centers for Disease Control study published in 2011. In total, the disease is now believed to have caused more than 200,000 deaths worldwide.
(As of this writing, confirmed cases of coronavirus in the U.S. are a little over 1,700, with 40 deaths attributed to the virus. Worldwide, confirmed cases number fewer than 130,000 and just over 4,700 people have died.)
Mark,
I don't have anything to apologize for. People have been dying of viruses and bacteria since before anyone you ever knew was born. They'll still be dying from those things, along with many other causes, long after you and I are gone. You need to learn how to live in the real world and cope (maintain your ability to think critically and objectively) with the fact that one day, whether it be tomorrow or 50 years from now, you're going to die like everyone else who's ever been born. Any belief to the contrary is magical thinking, plain and simple, not adult thinking. I don't have to be happy about that, but I do have to accept it.
You can't accomplish the "impossible" at all or ever, by dictionary definition. Sometimes I think people need to pick up a dictionary and look at the commonly accepted definitions for the words they speak or write, rather than whatever definitions their belief systems or ideologies ascribe / contort to suite their ideology in lieu of those definitions, so that they can have constructive conversations (orally or in writing) with other people (who aren't viewing the world through the lens of their ideology).

kbd512 · 2020-03-14 20:24:05

Elon Musk Downplays COVID-19 Danger in Email to Space-X Employees by Roberto Baldwin of Car and Driver

The coronavirus panic is dumb - Elon Musk's Twitter Account

You ain't kiddin', are ya, Elon?

As a basis for comparison, the risk of death from C19 is *vastly* less than the risk of death from driving your car home. - Excerpt from Elon Musk's E-mail to his employees

Media moron's retort to Mr. Musk's statement of fact:

While his numbers aren't wrong, it is interesting that he would compare automobile deaths to virus deaths, particularly when Musk's best-known company, Tesla, is in the business of building and selling automobiles. Plus, no one "catches" an automobile collision.

Gee whiz, Roberto Baldwin, you don't say?

And yet, the sheer number of automotive-related deaths DOESN'T STOP ANY OF THE MORONS I SEE DRIVING FROM TEXTING OR DOING THEIR MAKEUP OR MAKING VIDEOS OF THEIR IDIOCY WHILE DRIVING, DOES IT, GENIUS?

Seriously though, some people are just too stupid to live, even if we somehow manage to keep them alive for awhile anyway in this whacked-out fantasy land we've created for their tiny minds where nothing could ever hurt them and no matter how moronic anything they do happens to be, someone will always be there to save them from themselves.

In other news, thousands of Americans died yesterday from heart failure and nobody in the media so much as farted over it.

Uncommon sense is dead!

LONG LIVE UNCOMMON SENSE!

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-14 20:24:07

For SpaceNut re #94

Thanks for taking a first cut at finding the answer.

The article at the link below appears to describe a procedure that takes five hours:
https://www.dw.com/en/how-does-testing- … a-52633616

Edit#1:

First ... SpaceNut, you were on the right track with prediction the test involves dna

Second ... here is a bit of encouraging news for a rapid test, but it is NOT specific to this particular virus:

Research is being carried out worldwide and the first promising approaches for a simplified rapid test, similar to a blood sugar test, are already available. For example, the test presented by China's National Health Commission will be able to detect immunoglobulins, the antibodies that the human body first produces in a new infection, by testing a drop of blood in just 15 minutes.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-03-14 20:30:03)

SpaceNut · 2020-03-14 20:39:32

I think the rapid tests are giving lots of false negatives as they are doing multiple tests on the quarantined people that have come off from cruise ships before seeing positives test for having the virus.

Google says it's not publishing a national-scale coronavirus site anytime soon after Trump announcement
Norwegian Cruise Line managers urged salespeople to spread falsehoods about coronavirus
Infighting, missteps and a son-in-law hungry for action: Inside the Trump administration’s troubled coronavirus response

I did see a clip of this today Quarantined Italians are singing and dancing together from their balconies and windows

Coronavirus and COVID-19: What They Are, What's the Difference, and How You Can Respond

edit
immunoglobulins is a part of the white portion of the blood after red cell seperation. I know of this as its part of the breathing issues that some of my children did have at birth.

edit 2
another problem on the horizon is U.S. Customs and Border Protection seizes fake coronavirus test kits

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-14 20:57:29

For SpaceNut re #98

Thanks for the tip about tests for the immune response giving false negatives ... A possible explanation is that the body is NOT recognizing the virus as an enemy. I hope other forum members will watch for news about that and post it here.

The five hour test (which actually takes longer because of collection time, transportation time and handling time at the lab) appears to be the only game in town for the US, and perhaps other nations as well.

For SpaceNut .... here ya go!

Electron Microscope price
Image: jeremyjordan.me
Priced around $60,000 (USD), Hitachi’s TM-1000 electron microscope may be out of range for most families, but it’s finding quite a niche for itself in schools, small research firms, industry, and museums.
Reference: singularityhub.com/2009/12/15/hitachis-desktop-electron-microscope-cheap-enough-for-home-use/

Edit#1: To follow up, I was curious to know what X-Ray microscopy can do, even though the resolution is (presumably greater than that of electrons).

https://www.bnl.gov/newsroom/news.php?a=25398

The article at the link above describes success in achieving resolution at 10 nanometers, but the source of the X-Rays is a national laboratory instrument.

The scientists developing the X-Ray microscope hope to improve resolution over time, but a $19,000 small office instrument seems a lot more practical for wide scale deployment. The question I still have is whether a microscope of that kind can rapidly and accurately identify this particular virus from all the other crud that is included in a body fluid sample from a human being, or other animal, for that matter.

The images of the virus reported earlier are not all that detailed, although they do show roughly spherical objects with fuzzy exteriors.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-03-14 21:22:15)

louis · 2020-03-14 21:01:35

False negatives and false positives are not that unusual in medical testing for sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if we had that here since there are other coronaviruses apart from Covid 19.

The symptomology being given out by the media and authorities was v. misleading at the start of this crisis...gradually people have become aware that there is a whole range of symptoms from nothing to full blown respitory illness.

SpaceNut wrote:

I think the rapid tests are giving lots of false negatives as they are doing multiple tests on the quarantined people that have come off from cruise ships before seeing positives test for having the virus.
Google says it's not publishing a national-scale coronavirus site anytime soon after Trump announcement
Norwegian Cruise Line managers urged salespeople to spread falsehoods about coronavirus
I did see a clip of this today Quarantined Italians are singing and dancing together from their balconies and windows
Coronavirus and COVID-19: What They Are, What's the Difference, and How You Can Respond
edit
immunoglobulins is a part of the white portion of the blood after red cell seperation. I know of this as its part of the breathing issues that some of my children did have at birth.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-14 21:40:55

Nations of change for Italy and now Spain will impose partial coronavirus lockdown - PM

This is a surprise Internet companies won't disconnect people for unpaid bills for 60 days, FCC says

SpaceNut · 2020-03-15 20:05:31

Grocery stores struggle to restock amid panic demand as coronavirus pandemic spreads as the local stores are bare of toilet paper, detergents with cleaning anti bacterial properties, virus killing like lysol, bleach, cleansing wipes, pasta, rice, paper towels, prepared canned foods... the list goes on and on. With many a facebook post showing those that over bought just to hike the price on these items to sell them out of the back of there cars and trucks....Tennessee AG cracks down on men who hoarded thousands of sanitizer bottles amid shopper scare

Coronavirus outbreak forces everyday life to shift dramatically With widespread closures, cancellations and forced quarantines, the coronavirus pandemic hit home for Americans this week.
Of course we now have the pandemic experts that are telling people to not believe the hype that let everyone get infected to build up immunity to the desease as thats not true in all cases of desease. The top 3 myths about immunity that doctors want you to stop believing ASAP

State to state the cracked down and change of activity is part of the slowing of the infection spreading efforts being undertaken.
Coronavirus Update: NJ Communities Impose Curfews, Order Businesses Closed As COVID-19 Rises To 98 Cases as Coronavirus: Ridgewood, Montclair impose restrictions, declare local states of emergency but the limits of gatherings are being based on exposure Live updates: CDC urges halting gatherings of 50 people or more; Federal Reserve slashes interest rates to zero
So what are we to believe as How many people have the coronavirus? Covid-19 update shows how the virus has spread, and number of deaths

The states are all taking the virus in schools differently as some cities are setting the tone of time while some states have said what will happen. Any thing from a week to 6 weeks I have seen with some making the effort state wide to slow and control the spread.

SpaceNut · 2020-03-15 20:23:35

Just listened to a Rhine stone cowboy parady song about the corona virus trhat was quite good lyrically. So when I did a quick search I turned up some more.
These 10 Coronavirus Songs Bring Some Levity to the Global Panic

SpaceNut · 2020-03-16 17:36:51

The SARS-CoV-2 virus - responsible for the current coronavirus pandemic - can live on stainless steel surfaces for up to 72 hours, cardboard for up to 24 hours, and on copper for 4 hours and still be contagious.

Other coronaviruses can live on metal, plastic, and glass surfaces for four to five days, and could persist for up to nine days depending on temperature and humidity.

It's unclear how long viruses can live on fabric, but one study found that natural fabrics like wool and cotton are more likely to contain larger amounts of bacteria and fungi compared to silk and synthetic fabrics.

To properly disinfect surfaces make sure you're using alcohol-based cleaners that are at least 70% alcohol for hard surfaces and washing fabrics in water that's at least 86 degrees Fahrenheit.

Quaoar · 2020-03-16 18:47:57

Mark Friedenbach wrote:

Guys, does it matter? The virus is out.

I perfectly agree with you, pandemic like this may outbreak in every country, so I think it's completely useless to quarrel about who's to blame. The best we can do is to cooperate each other to contain the disease and find a vaccine.

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#76 2020-03-11 14:56:37

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#77 2020-03-11 16:47:13

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#78 2020-03-12 08:59:26

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#79 2020-03-12 18:28:31

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#80 2020-03-12 20:33:43

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#81 2020-03-13 14:37:07

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#82 2020-03-13 16:23:09

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#83 2020-03-13 17:36:31

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#84 2020-03-13 18:35:25

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#85 2020-03-14 09:04:39

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#86 2020-03-14 09:12:50

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#87 2020-03-14 17:31:37

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#88 2020-03-14 18:44:33

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#89 2020-03-14 19:43:51

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

#90 2020-03-14 20:05:21

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#91 2020-03-14 20:24:05

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#92 2020-03-14 20:24:07

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#93 2020-03-14 20:39:32

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#94 2020-03-14 20:57:29

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#95 2020-03-14 21:01:35

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#96 2020-03-14 21:40:55

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#97 2020-03-15 20:05:31

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#98 2020-03-15 20:23:35

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