New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#1 2020-01-21 11:44:30

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,240
Website

Pro-natalism - what can we learn from Israel?

As countries have become more prosperous and educated, their fertility rates have tended to decline, to the point that Israel stands alone as the only developed country to have a fertility rate above replacement.

Mars, of course, will be a highly educated and developed world from the start, so it will not be immune to the anti-natal effect of prosperity. If space colonisation is to be considered a success, it can't be a population sink that relies on continued immigration from Terra to keep numbers up. We will have to learn from the Israelis about how to promote fertility.

https://mosaicmagazine.com/essay/israel … c-miracle/


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Online

#2 2020-01-21 14:45:27

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 351

Re: Pro-natalism - what can we learn from Israel?

Want to raise national fertility rates?   Close down the abortion clinics and restrict access to the contraceptive pill.  The contraceptive pill was a disaster for national fertility.  Not because it allowed sex without fear of pregnancy.  It is precisely because it allowed unprotected sex without fear of pregnancy.  It allowed the full intimacy of unprotected sex,  whilst denying the biological consequences of unprotected sex.  Women crave that intimacy and the pill allowed them to avoid the consequences.


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

Offline

#3 2020-01-21 16:08:06

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,657

Re: Pro-natalism - what can we learn from Israel?

It's an interesting question. If we want to grow the population of Mars we should be encouraging large families.

But on the other hand the strong likelihood is that most women on Mars will be highly educated and highly independent-minded - precisely the sort of women who don't have large families on Earth.

One lesson I think we could take from Israel, from the Kibbutz movement, is to provide full childcare. In the Kibbutz movement the commune took over the lion's share of the responsibility for raising the child. However, over time the Kibbtuz has tended to be supplanted by more traditional family structures. People like to feel part of a close family, not part of a social commune.

Of course there is a bigger issue of whether we can procreate successfully on Mars. The answer is probably yes - even if we have to resort to  artificial 1G environments (maybe in LMO).

Scientists have been able to keep premature lambs alive in artificial wombs:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 … r-4-weeks/

One day it may be possible to transfer a human foetus at an early stage in pregnancy to an artificial womb, so minimising the difficulties for the mother in terms of pursuing her career.

It might be possible to use fertility treatment methods to create multiple pregnancies - maybe non-identical twins would be standard.

Perhaps there could be strong financial incentives for large families as well as extended child care. A woman might be prepared to have two twin pregancies - one in her mid 20s and one in her mid 40s.

Last edited by louis (2020-01-21 18:39:26)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#4 2020-03-07 10:43:28

Dayton3
Member
Registered: 2002-06-03
Posts: 135

Re: Pro-natalism - what can we learn from Israel?

If one thing in recent years regarding this issue has become clear is that governmental policies have relatively little effect on the decisions about women having children and how many they have.    Government policies are way down the list on the major factors influencing those kinds of decisions.    Family,  culture and various other factors are far, far more prominent.

Offline

#5 2020-03-08 08:47:41

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,657

Re: Pro-natalism - what can we learn from Israel?

Really? Not so. Take a look at this article about Hungary.


Dayton3 wrote:

If one thing in recent years regarding this issue has become clear is that governmental policies have relatively little effect on the decisions about women having children and how many they have.    Government policies are way down the list on the major factors influencing those kinds of decisions.    Family,  culture and various other factors are far, far more prominent.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#6 2020-03-08 10:28:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,368

Re: Pro-natalism - what can we learn from Israel?

This is the ideology of politics of a culture and unless you are living in a bubble you will carry this with you to mars even if you try to supress it from being visible to others. It is why allowing cummunities in America small areas of like kind people are such an issue as they are keeping the bad of the culture still growing with hate and not lessoning it in deversity.

Offline

#7 2020-03-08 15:24:48

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,657

Re: Pro-natalism - what can we learn from Israel?

China is a one race - one culture state (Han Chinese). The USA is probably the most diverse country that has ever existed but is built around a fairly minimalist core culture: loser consent democracy, free speech, rule of law, and loyalty to the Republic. Trying to build a working society on diversity alone without that central focus of loyalty is a doomed enterprise. You end with either civil war or dictatorship.

SpaceNut wrote:

This is the ideology of politics of a culture and unless you are living in a bubble you will carry this with you to mars even if you try to supress it from being visible to others. It is why allowing cummunities in America small areas of like kind people are such an issue as they are keeping the bad of the culture still growing with hate and not lessoning it in deversity.

Last edited by louis (2020-03-08 15:25:15)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB