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#501 2020-02-06 20:12:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,766

Re: Starship is Go...

Mk1 was built in Texas and after blowing its top is being work rather than building MK3
Mk2 is being built in Florida with MK4 as well seems to have been started.

So if we are going to have different engine counts and fuel tank sizes then the SN would identify a systems configuration number....

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#502 2020-02-07 18:13:33

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,444

Re: Starship is Go...

A good video from Felix...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI_8cZwP5XA

X ray machines being used to inspect welds now (why not before? you might ask).

Some clues as to weight of the hull.

Starship launch - 20 Km flight 16 March (at the earliest).


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#503 2020-02-07 20:16:18

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,444

Re: Starship is Go...

SpaceXcentric have a v similar narrative...

louis wrote:

A good video from Felix...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI_8cZwP5XA

X ray machines being used to inspect welds now (why not before? you might ask).

Some clues as to weight of the hull.

Starship launch - 20 Km flight 16 March (at the earliest).


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#504 2020-02-14 06:00:59

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,444

Re: Starship is Go...

Felix has an excellent and encouraging update on Starship production:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXI1HOO4lFc


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#505 Yesterday 15:19:33

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,444

Re: Starship is Go...

Another exciting update from Felix on Starship:

1. Space X Starship production - milestones achieved on a daily basis.

2. Boca Chica buzzing with activity.

3. Space X fleshing out the stacks. Plumbing, avionics and electronics being installed.

4. Won't be RCS thrusters needed. Centre of mass problem reduced. Might go back to three leg design.

5. Detailed drawings from 3:40.

6. Zubrin interview with Musk.

7. Within one year, Space X will be employing 3000 people at Boca Chica. 2 Starships per week - mass production facility in BC.

8. Production costs - Starships will cost $5 million each.

9. No nuclear reactors. Zubrin pointed out 6-10 football fields of PV array would be required for Starship refuelling on Mars. Musk replied "Fine that's what we'll do." So does look like the first mission to Mars will be essentially  solar powered on the surface.

10. First crewed ships will have 15-20 people on board...this seems to suggest we could see 30-40 people on Mission One. However, I would remain sceptical about that. Perhaps Musk is talking about the first few flights after Mission One.  Trying to train up 40 people for Mission One sounds extremely challenging and resource intensive. But on the other hand, Musk does equate Mission One with the D Day Landings in comparison with the Apollo Landing on the Moon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mseWhaW43Wg

Given the recent news about the proposed IPO on Starlink, which should provide the capital for the early stages of the Mars colonisation programme, it does seem like Musk is unstoppable.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#506 Yesterday 15:55:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,766

Re: Starship is Go...

Can anyone say moving target for performance and design...

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#507 Yesterday 19:08:06

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,444

Re: Starship is Go...

It is - for me - a surprising approach to designing something as complicated as an interplanetary rocket...I guess we have to accept that Musk uses an intuitive approach as well as a rational one and that does appear to pay dividends over time. I had assumed a lot of the principles and methods of rocket design had long ago been settled...seems I was wrong.

As long as Musk's rocket is ready for duty by 2025 at the latest, I will be happy.


SpaceNut wrote:

Can anyone say moving target for performance and design...


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#508 Yesterday 19:49:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,766

Re: Starship is Go...

You must remember that parts and especially electrical and electronic are obsolete these days in less than 7 years from start of use to end of life.

The only thing that is still some what new is the methane engines and even that is halfway through the 7 year cycle for the interface hardware...

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#509 Yesterday 21:22:38

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,878
Website

Re: Starship is Go...

I bought my house in November 1990. It came with furnace, water heater, clothes washer, and dryer. The washer died just about when I moved in. The appliance service company said repair would cost more than a new replacement, so I got a new one. That was 1990, the new one is still running. In 2009 the natural gas clothes dryer quit. I brought in the same repair company, no other appliance "repair" company knew how to repair anything; they would only replace parts, and complained that dryer is so old they can't get parts. But Accurate Appliance was able to fix it. The main bearing for the blower failed. The V-belt (like a car engine) broke when he removed it. He said it looked like the original. He took the blower to his shop, removed the bearing and took it to a company that specializes in rebuilding bearings. After it was fixed, brought it back and re-installed. With a new V-belt. The natural gas company sent an inspector to ensure everything was Ok. The inspector said the points would be worn out. This dryer does not use a pilot light, it has a relay that strikes a piece of flint to steel to create a spark. So the gas is only on when the dryer is running. But he looked at the points, they were perfect. I'm a single guy, and use the clothes line in summer, so don't use the dryer that much. After I tried to find manufacturing date, but couldn't find such a plate on it. Found the manufacturer name and model number. When I phoned the manufacturer they said it was either built in 1961 or 1962; so it's older than I am. Assuming it's from 1961, it ran for 48 years before requiring service. Now it'll probably run at least another 25 years.

New appliances are designed to last 7 to 10 years. Why would I get a new one?

A number of years ago my electric water heater failed. When I bought the house there was a special deal from the electric company; the water heater was rented from them. Added to my monthly electric bill. But eventually the electric company wanted out of the deal, gave me an offer. I would pay just 3 more months at the same rate, then I would own the water heater. At that point it would be mine, no monthly rental, but it would be my responsibility if it failed. Shouldn't come as a big surprise that it failed one year later. Tank corroded through, water gushed out. I bought a new one, and installed with help of a couple friends.

Last year my furnace failed. That model furnace was made 1961, so the clothes dryer and furnace were probably installed the same time. Middle of winter, woke up to a very cold house. Called the natural gas company, they offer to do simple repairs for free. Found the gas valve failed, so replaced it. The natural gas company repairman was a certified pipe fitter, so qualified to install it. Then he found the heat exchanger had a crack. Flame was "rolling back"; that's what caused the valve to fail. He immediately turned off the gas and told me to get a heating contractor. Only one contractor was willing to come out to look at it. He tried to sell me a new furnace, and said it would have to be the newest and latest high efficiency furnace, which would require punching a hole in the basement wall for a new chimney and air intake, and running a water drain hose. I said thank you, and escorted him out. Learning what the appliance guy did with the dryer, taking the damaged part to a specialist, I opened the furnace and took out the heat exchanger myself. It wasn't easy, it was hard getting at all the screws, and it was damn heavy! But I did it. Carried it up the stairs with help from a friend. He had a truck to carry it to a welder. Found a welder online, ensured he knew how to weld that type of steel. The burners were cast iron, but the heat exchanger was mild steel. Inspected it myself, couldn't find any more cracks. But asked the welder to look for any cracks, or anything else that could fail. He said the welds from manufacture would eventually fail, so welded over them. My father was a welder; I may not be a welder myself, but know enough to recognize a good job. He did a really good job. Two burners, one heat exchange chamber above each burner, each chamber made of two pieces of stamped steel welded together. Some people think you can't weld to repair, but these were welded when the furnace was manufactured. Steel doesn't know the difference between manufacture vs repair; welding is welding is welding. Perhaps some new furnace with super thin sheet metal made of some exotic stainless steel alloy couldn't withstand the heat cycle of welding, but this was mild steel. No problems welding that. And the welder ground the weld over the crack smooth, so the heat exchanger would form an air-tight seal when re-installed. Again, good job! I re-installed myself. Asked a friend for help; tried to hold it while the friend put in the first screws. But he kept trying to pull the heat exchanger through the fire box. It won't fit through there, and you have to press the parts together to match screw holes. He claims he was a motorcycle mechanic, but a mechanic should at least understand how to match screw holes. Oh well, asked a different friend. He helped just long enough to get a couple screws in place to hold it. Then left, I installed the rest of the screws. And re-installed the burners. The air intakes for the burners fell off, so I had to put them back on. That meant their setting was lost, so re-adjusted them for optimal fuel/air mix. Looked up on the internet how to do it; turns out there are a couple YouTube videos. Wow! Ok, adjust until the flame is maximum blue. When it's most blue, that means most complete combustion. Turns out I had adjusted for cleaner combustion than it had been set before. Called the natural gas company to send over an inspector. He looked and found everything Ok. I told him that I did it myself, had a guy from his company replace the gas valve, and a welder do the welding, but effectively was my own heating contractor. The inspector's eyes went big; he re-inspected everything again. And again, and again. He had a carbon monoxide sensor, checked air in the basement, the box in front of the furnace, up the chimney, everything possible. Several times over. Found I did everything right. The furnace has worked ever since.

Point is with proper maintenance, things built rugged can last a lifetime. And on Mars you will have to be very self-sufficient. Could you fix your own furnace? On Mars you'll have to.

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#510 Yesterday 21:52:35

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,819

Re: Starship is Go...

For RobertDyck re #509

Thanks for your detailed report of what would be a major repair and far beyond my capabilities.

I had not forgotten your mention of being cold in your home with the furnace out, and appreciate your follow up.  I assumed you solved the problem, but had no idea (of course) what was involved!

Your closing line should be worrisome for future Mars settlers.  Not everyone on Earth is capable of that degree of self sufficiency.  The folks heading off to Mars would be well advised to think seriously about their collective dependency on machines.  On Earth, in temperate climates, we can (and often do) enjoy periods of time when Ma Nature treats is pretty well, and makes few demands upon us.  On Mars, that will NEVER be the case.

(th)

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#511 Yesterday 21:56:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,766

Re: Starship is Go...

The newer models are designed with energy savings for use that the old unit is greatly exceding otherwise we would be still driving model T's...
I do agree that somethings should be designed to last longer but for companies that make money on unit sales then that goes against the profit margin that they are looking for.

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