SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

Mark Friedenbach · 2012-05-15 12:42:25

This one counts against PRI. Engineers at Brookhaven National Laboratory have come up with a nickel alloy nanosheet catalyst for water electrolysis that approaches platinum in efficiency:

http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_d … late=Today

This makes platinum less necessary for some industrial uses.

Impaler · 2012-05-16 09:20:03

The main driver of Platinum high price is automotive Catalytic Converter usage which is something like 30% of consumption if I recall correctly. Elon Musk's OTHER company will eventually kill off that demand and bring down the price and because Cats are highly recyclable (mostly being turned into New Cats currently) the obsolescence of Internal Combustion would dump a huge amount of Platinum back onto the market and probably permanently deflate prices.

As for mining Platinum any ware off the Earth when you look into the number the 'rich' Asteroids are only about 20x richer then the Earths Platinum ore bodies. Thus your cost of extraction couldn't be more then 20x that of Earth surface mining if you expect to make a profit. If anyone is going to make money on material brought back from space is NOT going to be by refining the material down to base elements 99.9% of which are the most common elements in the Earths crust. Naturally fallen metallic meteorites sell for $5 a gram and up, so refining asteroid material would be literally SPINNING GOLD INTO STRAW!

If these investors have ANY kind of viable business model it will be return small <1000 kg qualities of asteroid and selling it a gram at a time as a souvenir or in bulk to governments for research purposes. This would also be on firmer legal grounds as the US governments precedent of hoarded it's Apollo moon rocks. Once the rocks back on Earth it's arguably no longer part of 'Space', but NASA never sold rocks for profit so it's in my opinion a gray area.

The REAL money is in selling the fuel in space to other missions and vehicles. But this is even more questionable as you clearly need to own something before you can sell it and your right back to the OST. Take for example on the ISS the American section of the station produces most of the Energy from solar panels a resource collected in space, can that energy be sold? I think the ISS partners buy and sell these resources/services between themselves in some kind of regulated by treaty manor. Private companies might get into the same thing, so long as they only sell what they actively collect and their is a legal regime involved then it can be argued they are selling the SERVICE of collection ware as the resources are free and anyone else could collect them if they wished. The analogy would be a bit like panning for gold without making a claim, what you extract you can sell but you don't have exclusivity.

Last edited by Impaler (2012-05-16 09:47:13)

RGClark · 2012-05-16 10:02:40

Impaler wrote:

The main driver of Platinum high price is automotive Catalytic Converter usage which is something like 30% of consumption if I recall correctly.

That still leaves 70% of the market.

Bob Clark

RGClark · 2012-06-21 19:12:44

This blog post shows the high mass ratio discussed in the "Low Cost HLV" blog post
is feasible by making a comparison to the Saturn S-IC stage:

MONDAY, MAY 7, 2012
Low Cost HLV, page 2: Comparison to the S-IC Stage.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2012/0 … age-2.html

This blog post shows you can get an even higher mass ratio, close to 29 to 1,
by using modern materials and common bulkhead design. A mass ratio this high
makes possible a SSTO:

THURSDAY, JUNE 21, 2012
Low Cost HLV, page 3: Lightweighting the S-IC Stage.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2012/0 … -s-ic.html

Bob Clark

SpaceNut · 2015-10-08 21:27:17

I think there is another topic but did not see it...

A nonprofit just booked a trip to the moon with SpaceX

SpaceIL's lander on the moon is Israel-based nonprofit, competing for the $30 million Google Lunar X Prize . SpaceIL’s launch contract cost more than $10 million, which the nonprofit fundraised. It was purchased through Spaceflight Industries. SpaceIL’s rocket ride is scheduled to blast off in the second half of 2017.

This is also a big deal as Space x will be the launch service provider.....

Void · 2015-10-09 12:32:41

A very good thing

SpaceNut · 2020-01-03 18:10:02

Not sure of what happened to the investor that wanted a trip to the moon but there seems to not be any missions other than to LEO for now....

SpaceNut · 2020-03-08 19:26:58

I figured that if I put this in the ISS topic that no one would read it.

SpaceX launches its original Dragon capsule for the last

I think they are talking about version 1 of the cargo ship on its last of 3 trips to space.

So are they planning on saving the ship for the museum....nope its going to orbit to stick around for a month being loaded with 4000lbs of garbage and being sent into the ocean.

SpaceX successfully launched its Falcon 9 rocket on the company’s 20th cargo mission to the International Space Station, sending more than 4,500 pounds of supplies and science experiments to the three crew members living in orbit. Dragon v2 is slightly bigger than its predecessor, able to carry about 20 percent more volume than before, and it can be re-used up to five times in space.

Terraformer · 2020-03-09 16:20:30

They've had 20 cargo missions, and still haven't had a manned flight? When was the last time they had a failure?

SpaceNut · 2020-03-09 18:01:37

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F … y_launches

https://www.spaceflightinsider.com/orga … -falcon-9/

In its first five years, the Falcon 9 has a success rate of 18 out of 19 missions – or roughly 95 percent.

https://www.vox.com/2017/5/28/15695080/ … successful

For those interested in keeping track, here’s a look at what has happened the few times SpaceX’s Falcon 9 has failed: In the 2015 failure, NASA calculated that it lost around $112 million in cargo. And a report from the Wall Street Journal found that SpaceX lost around $260 million

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-03-12 04:03:35

Soyuz embargo strands satellites with limited launch options
https://spacenews.com/soyuz-embargo-str … h-options/

More than a dozen former Soyuz satellite missions need new rides after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, raising questions over how fast the launch market can absorb the loss of the workhorse rocket.

Previous discussion on commercial space flight
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2427

RGClark · 2022-03-17 00:03:09

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

Soyuz embargo strands satellites with limited launch options
https://spacenews.com/soyuz-embargo-str … h-options/
More than a dozen former Soyuz satellite missions need new rides after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, raising questions over how fast the launch market can absorb the loss of the workhorse rocket.

Previous discussion on commercial space flight
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2427

Probably not the most relevant thread to put this post, but I appreciate you reviving the thread!

Robert Clark

Last edited by RGClark (2022-03-17 11:47:35)

SpaceNut · 2022-03-17 19:39:18

Upping the level of space x crewed to the ISS should not be a problem with the cheap price tag for the ride...

SpaceNut · 2022-04-10 17:43:10

SpaceX Raises Prices, Blames Inflation

SpaceX had the lowest prices in town, promising to put customer payloads in orbit for the low, low price of just $61.2 million per launch.
True, in 2016, SpaceX announced a small price increase -- but only to $62 million.
cost of launching a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket to Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit (GTO) shot up from $62 million to $67 million -- an 8% increase. S
cost of a Falcon Heavy (FH) ride to orbit (which was not raised back in 2016) jumped 7.8% to $97 million.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-18 12:22:01

Since Crew Dragon's Debut, SpaceX Has Flown More Astronauts Than Anyone - slashdot arstechnica

https://science.slashdot.org/story/22/1 … han-anyone

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-11 11:46:39

SpaceX ship Shannon is now in position offshore near Tampa to recover Crew-5

https://twitter.com/spaceoffshore/statu … 8885074944

NASA delivers hardware for commercial lunar payload mission
https://phys.org/news/2023-03-nasa-hard … yload.html

NASA partners with Firefly Aerospace for lunar GNSS mission
https://www.gpsworld.com/nasa-partners- … s-mission/

Moon 2069: lunar tourism and deep space launches a century on from Apollo?

https://theconversation.com/moon-2069-l … llo-121218

Most likely scenario

Between 1969 and 1972, 12 men landed on the moon, spending, in total, just over three days exploring the lunar surface. They planted the flag of a single nation, collected rocks and undertook a few simple experiments. Between 2019 and 2069, what might we actually hope to see? A permanent, international lunar base on the moon’s surface, surrounded by flags of all the nations involved, would certainly be possible.

Elon Musk announced that substantial deposits from two individuals had been received by SpaceX for a Moon loop flight using a free return trajectory. Musk said in 2018 they were to use the BFR system, Elon Musk revealed the passenger for the trip, Yusaku Maezawa during a livestream.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181003030 … oon.earth/

A painter, musician, film director, fashion designer...Some of Earth's greatest talents will board a spacecraft and be inspired in a way they have never been before.

SpaceNut · 2023-03-11 13:02:17

Its good to see them back home since the Russian ships are having such issues attached to the ISS.

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#76 2012-05-15 12:42:25

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#77 2012-05-16 09:20:03

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#78 2012-05-16 10:02:40

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#79 2012-06-21 19:12:44

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#80 2015-10-08 21:27:17

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#81 2015-10-09 12:32:41

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#82 2020-01-03 18:10:02

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#83 2020-03-08 19:26:58

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#84 2020-03-09 16:20:30

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#85 2020-03-09 18:01:37

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#86 2022-03-12 04:03:35

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#87 2022-03-17 00:03:09

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#88 2022-03-17 19:39:18

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#89 2022-04-10 17:43:10

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#90 2022-10-18 12:22:01

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#91 2023-03-11 11:46:39

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

#92 2023-03-11 13:02:17

Re: SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

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