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#1 2019-11-27 11:05:49

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,805

Tesla Cybertruck

Most here have undoubtedly seen Elon Musk's new Tesla Cybertruck; in case you haven't, here's the link to the promo: https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck

More interesting than the Cybertruck has been a recent Tweet, stating that there's another model under development with a sealed atmosphere and pressure doors--designed for use on Mars!

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#2 2019-11-27 11:42:32

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,612

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

Yes I heard that...that should protect against micrometeorites!  Clearly the tires would have to be redesigned.

Oldfart1939 wrote:

Most here have undoubtedly seen Elon Musk's new Tesla Cybertruck; in case you haven't, here's the link to the promo: https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck

More interesting than the Cybertruck has been a recent Tweet, stating that there's another model under development with a sealed atmosphere and pressure doors--designed for use on Mars!


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#3 2019-11-27 12:01:08

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,805

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

Yes. The tires certainly aren't compatible with Martian conditions. Ultimately, a tracked vehicle would be in order.

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#4 2019-11-27 12:18:09

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,612

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

I'm with you on that - tracked feels right.

Oldfart1939 wrote:

Yes. The tires certainly aren't compatible with Martian conditions. Ultimately, a tracked vehicle would be in order.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#5 2019-11-27 16:20:06

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,180

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

The demo had the window that shattered and cracked....

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#6 2019-11-27 16:58:38

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,805

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

SpaceNut--

Yep! The unbreakable windows.

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#7 2019-11-27 18:34:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,180

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

The big thing for the truck is that it does away with those large gasoline and desiel engines that have a high particulate output of carbon in the exhaust.

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#8 2019-12-10 21:36:45

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,805

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

Don't know if anyone else picked up on the comment by Elon, that they were working on a model for use on Mars? One that could be pressurized internally.

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#9 2019-12-10 22:10:20

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,180

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

I hope the glass gets more testing before we go in it without a space suit.....
Its about time that Nasa gets some egg on there face....

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#10 2019-12-11 07:46:23

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,110

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

For SpaceNut re #9

Your observation deserves follow up ...

I'm pretty sure the window DID NOT BREAK  .... That was safety glass, and the demonstration showed that a person inside the cab would have been protected from a projectile of the mass and the velocity used for the demo.  Safety glass is designed to shatter while the plastic layers hold the pieces together.

A quick Google search confirmed that the safety glass I'm thinking of is indeed made with a plastic layer between glass.  However, I learned that there is another type of safety glass that is made only of glass, which is designed to shatter into non-lethal chunks.

From my observation of the Tesla truck demo, since the window appeared to hold together, I'd assume it was made with one or more plastic layers.
The person inside the cab would NOT have lost air pressure, if the plastic layer held.  More details about the performance of the window would be helpful, and if someone can provide them I would appreciate seeing them.

(th)

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#11 2019-12-11 08:06:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,180

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

The front windshields do have safety glass but most auto windows on the sides are tempered glass but in the regards to safety it adheres to the glass but still can puncture and allow the internal atmosphere in a vehicle on mars to escape. The mars vehicle would want a secondary layer of safety glass with a gap to keep full failure from happening.

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#12 2019-12-11 09:41:31

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,110

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

For SpaceNut re #11 ...

I ** think ** the point of Elon's demo was to show that unlike (as you say) most auto windows, the truck side windows are made of safety glass.

Your design of double safety glass seems to me to be an ideal candidate for rigorous testing, to be sure that the extra expense and extra mass are actually needed.

However, it is EXACTLY that kind of forward thinking that is needed to arrive at a practical solution.

I'd like to see test results in a vacuum chamber with "normal/Earth" atmosphere on the inside of a test article.

The goal would be to accept some level of punishment before pressure is lost.

Science fiction writers have been imagining diamond windows for several decades now.  In the current age of rapid nanotechology advancement, it would not surprise me to learn that someone somewhere is working hard on a fabrication technique for that particular branch of carbon capability.

(th)

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#13 2019-12-11 13:20:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,180

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

The outside glass would have gorilla glass plastic adherred to the outside to add an addition layer of protection such as what we use on a cell phone. Obsorbtion of impact is important to deterring breaking of the glass.

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#14 2020-02-12 17:09:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,180

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

In a simular vien of electric here is Los Angeles Fire Department (LAFD) to Acquire 1st Electric Fire Engine in North America
Sort like the electric busses and a few other items that have a heavy duty chasis...

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#15 2020-02-13 21:04:15

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,277

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

The Hummer electric truck actually looks like a real truck.  The DeLorean / Telsa truck looks like something that might appeal to some small minority of potential customers, perhaps Blade Runner fans.  In any event, they won't be used off-road without a well-established series of charging stations nearby.  It's a neat concept and it could work well enough here on Earth where most trucks are more redneck sports cars than functional duty trucks.  I'm not a fan of road noise, so I'd appreciate a cab with a quiet interior, which I think electric vehicles would deliver more easily than their gasoline or diesel powered counterparts.

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#16 2020-02-14 09:04:04

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 349

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

The problem with any sort of electric freight vehicle on Mars is the extremely poor energy density of batteries.  For lithium-ion: 0.5MJ/kg.  For lead-acid: 0.17MJ/kg.  Compare that to diesel which has 45MJ/kg.  Methane has 55MJ/kg.  Now factor in as well that all of the driving will be on unpaved surfaces with high friction coefficient.

On the plus side, it is relatively easy on Mars to roll out a flexible PV array from the side of the vehicle.  On Earth, there aren't many places where you can do that without infringing on some farmers field, or covering a whole parking lot.  But on Mars, you have a global desert claimed by no one.  So if you are prepared to take your time and stop for several hours every 50 miles to recharge the batteries, an electric truck would work.

Electric HGVs would be a far more practical proposition on Earth if the batteries were put on a trailer that was towed behind the vehicle and can be detached and swapped over at a service station.  That way, the battery range doesn't need to exceed 100 miles and the average speed of the vehicle is not too badly effected by frequent stopping, if changeover only takes 10 minutes.  You can take more time with charging as well.  A few hours recharging a spent battery isn't an issue if it can be left charging at the service station and exchanged for a fully charged one.  Under that situation, we don't necessarily need the most energy dense battery technology, but the cheapest, with the longest service life; preferably based upon materials that are abundant and non-toxic.

When we have roads on Mars, the swappable battery arrangement would work well there as well.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-02-14 09:08:21)


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#17 2020-02-14 13:13:45

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,612

Re: Tesla Cybertruck

Establishing a network of battery changing stations was tried in Israel.  It failed but seemingly more for commercial than technical reasons.

https://qz.com/88871/better-place-shai- … batteries/

Long term I think induction charging as the vehicle moves, is the way forward:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0UWi8RJDTY

With induction charging, you don't even need to think about your vehicle's battery - it will just charge automatically when you reach a low level, so it will actually be more convenient, not less, than filling up with petrol/gas.


Calliban wrote:

The problem with any sort of electric freight vehicle on Mars is the extremely poor energy density of batteries.  For lithium-ion: 0.5MJ/kg.  For lead-acid: 0.17MJ/kg.  Compare that to diesel which has 45MJ/kg.  Methane has 55MJ/kg.  Now factor in as well that all of the driving will be on unpaved surfaces with high friction coefficient.

On the plus side, it is relatively easy on Mars to roll out a flexible PV array from the side of the vehicle.  On Earth, there aren't many places where you can do that without infringing on some farmers field, or covering a whole parking lot.  But on Mars, you have a global desert claimed by no one.  So if you are prepared to take your time and stop for several hours every 50 miles to recharge the batteries, an electric truck would work.

Electric HGVs would be a far more practical proposition on Earth if the batteries were put on a trailer that was towed behind the vehicle and can be detached and swapped over at a service station.  That way, the battery range doesn't need to exceed 100 miles and the average speed of the vehicle is not too badly effected by frequent stopping, if changeover only takes 10 minutes.  You can take more time with charging as well.  A few hours recharging a spent battery isn't an issue if it can be left charging at the service station and exchanged for a fully charged one.  Under that situation, we don't necessarily need the most energy dense battery technology, but the cheapest, with the longest service life; preferably based upon materials that are abundant and non-toxic.

When we have roads on Mars, the swappable battery arrangement would work well there as well.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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