New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#1 2012-08-16 23:43:08

James Burk
Webmaster
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2011-11-17
Posts: 150
Website

MDRS 2.0

I am helping out with the Mars Desert Research Station which is a Mars analogue research base near Hanksville, Utah.  There are new crews rotating through there every 2 weeks.  The current field season is running until May 2013.  See this thread for the most recent website info.

(Original Post:)
I was at the steering committee meeting a couple weeks ago when the Mars Society leadership agreed to upgrade the MDRS and rebuild the websites.   Dr. Zubrin and others are calling it "MDRS 2.0" (although Im sure some might quibble with that). 

I am currently working on a new crew / mission support website which they will use for routine work.  If you are interested in helping out -- right now we are trying out Drupal Commons software on there -- let me know.  (Ed: we are now using Google platform tools and custom software at the Hab.)


James Burk | Webmaster & IT Director | The Mars Society
jburk@marssociety.org  |  +1 (206) 601-7143

Offline

#2 2013-02-10 14:01:02

James Burk
Webmaster
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2011-11-17
Posts: 150
Website

Re: MDRS 2.0

I have been posting the daily crew reports from MDRS here:

http://mdrs.marssociety.org/crew-reports


James Burk | Webmaster & IT Director | The Mars Society
jburk@marssociety.org  |  +1 (206) 601-7143

Offline

#3 2013-11-05 15:22:19

Number04
Member
From: Calgary Alberta Canada
Registered: 2002-09-24
Posts: 162

Re: MDRS 2.0

Is this archived anywhere? The link doesn't work anymore.

Offline

#4 2014-12-31 19:48:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,929

Re: MDRS 2.0

The second generation  MDRS GreenHab Destroyed by Fire

For five seasons, the facility functioned as an experimental closed loop water recycling system, but testing ceased when it was concluded that the system was too small to maintain the Habitat with six full-time crew members.

GreenHab%20photo.jpg?attredirects=0

There is a link in the story to help rebuild the stations greenhouse....

Important notes on water useage in the station is that they typically use only a 3rd of what Nasa indicates that will be needed so we now know what size to target for mars to just do water filtration....

Offline

#5 2015-01-28 18:14:31

Excelsior
Member
From: Excelsior, USA
Registered: 2014-02-22
Posts: 120

Re: MDRS 2.0

The story finally hit the media.

An interesting lesson seems to have been learned here...

It took the crew about half an hour to bring the fire under control. Orenstein and crew engineer Dmitry Smirnov used all available fire extinguishers on site, but even after the extinguishers were exhausted and the power cut, the fire was still not out.

"We put out the rest by putting water on the flames," Orenstein recalled.

The four-person crew was barely able to deal with the emergency, he added. "Six or seven [people], to me, seems realistic as the adequate number of people to handle a situation like this most effectively."

It seems to me that this contingency needs to play an important role in mission planning. Firefighting is a major issue on ships at sea, there is no reason to believe spacecraft and surface habs would be any different. If you don't have sufficient manpower to fight the fire, everyone is dead. There is no "jumping overboard".


The Former Commodore

Offline

#6 2015-01-28 18:19:56

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,929

Re: MDRS 2.0

While its a problem on earth a fire on mars would mean jumping inot a space suit, getting into the exit chamber and releasing the air in the cabin to the outside or flooding it with CO2....

"The GreenHab as a greenhouse wasn't cost-effective; we had to keep it heated and cooled. The idea is this will be much easier to maintain," Rupert said.

The Fisher GreenHab was the second greenhouse built at MDRS, after the first one collapsed under heavy winds. Built in 2003, the structure was first used for five years as an experimental water recycling system.

The GreenHab was reconfigured in 2009 for use as a greenhouse, after concerns were raised that the water-recycling system would not be able to support crews properly. Crops for crews were grown for three seasons. A "Zen Garden" was also available for crews inside the GreenHab, allowing for a small spot to retreat from the main habitat for privacy.

The Mars Society aims to have a replacement structure ready in time for the 2015-16 field season, which begins this fall.

Good that it will get replaced bad that its going to be more than $40,000 to do so.

Seems that we need a professionally designed struture to do the experiments within and to get the heating and cooling correct at the least amount of energy costs to boot....

Last edited by SpaceNut (2015-01-28 18:33:54)

Offline

#7 2015-01-28 20:34:33

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,228
Website

Re: MDRS 2.0

ISS modules have the ability to seal off from the rest of the station. In case of fire. It's my understanding that fluoropolymers are not flamable. So the plastic film of a greenhouse on Mars shouldn't burn. If it does, once pressure is lost and Mars 95%+ CO2 atmosphere is exposed, the fire should go out. A metal hab shouldn't burn. The entire hab should be designed to be non-flamable.

Why will the new MDRS greenhouse cost that much? Are they going to use Tefzel film? Or better yet, Aclar? Tefzel os a co-polymer of TFE with normal ethylene. That's not what I recommend for Mars. For Mars, I recommend PCTFE, sold for aerospace or military applications by Honeywell under the brand name Clarus, or sold to the pharmaceutical industry under the brand name Aclar. If the film is cheaper, then why would replacement cost so much? When I bought my house in Winnipeg, Canada, in 1990, it cost $46,500. There has been inflation since then, and real estate dramatically increased, but really? $40,000 for a greenhouse?

Offline

#8 2015-01-30 07:13:27

mariusz
Member
Registered: 2015-01-29
Posts: 7

Re: MDRS 2.0

RobertDyck wrote:

So the plastic film of a greenhouse on Mars shouldn't burn. If it does, once pressure is lost and Mars 95%+ CO2 atmosphere is exposed, the fire should go out. A metal hab shouldn't burn. The entire hab should be designed to be non-flamable.

The fire could still be burning if oxygen is supplied from the other parts of the habitat, putting anyone living there in danger. In addition to that to burn,afaik the fire does not need the oxygen in the atmosphere to burn - it just need some kind of an oxidizer.

Offline

#9 2019-12-08 18:56:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,929

Re: MDRS 2.0

Offline

#10 2020-01-08 20:31:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,929

Re: MDRS 2.0

http://mdrs.marssociety.org/


Latest Updates
Posted on January 8, 2020
Crew 218 Final Mission Summary

Mars Desert Research Station

Mission Summary

Crew 218 – The Next Giant Leap

Dec 21st, 2019 – Jan 4th, 2020

Offline

#11 2020-01-08 21:16:41

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,228
Website

Re: MDRS 2.0

How nasty should I be? The crew report says

This mission encountered different challenges than my previous two experiences, with snow and cold keeping the crew indoors for the first 5 sols and making EVAs much more difficult.

I could respond "Pussy!" Weather.com for Hanksville UT at that time: daily high/low starting Dec 21:
+3°/-7°C, +5°/-5°C, +3°/-5°C, +2°/-1°C, +3/-1°C.

I live in Winnipeg. People in northern Manitoba consider Winnipeg to be south and warm. Snow in Winnipeg arrives in November, stays until end of March. Temperature right now is -17°C, humidity 77%, windchill -29°C. Forecast for Friday high -20°C, windchill  -29°C; overnight low -31°C, windchill -40°C. One day last year it was -40°C real temperature, windchill -64°C. That was the first time it got down to -40°C since 2005. Temperatures like Hanksville we consider warm for winter.

Offline

#12 2020-01-08 22:01:55

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,772

Re: MDRS 2.0

RobertDyck,

Some of us are not Vikings and don't feel the need to live in places where it's cold enough to freeze diesel solid.  It was 40F in Houston this morning and I thought that maybe we needed to move some place warmer.

For the very brief period that the ship I was on was below the Antarctic Circle, I thought that whoever thought Antarctica was a good place to send people to study anything at all must've had a few screws loose!  Then again, we were conducting flight ops there until the Skipper had the good sense to put an end to that.  Watching ice forming on the bulkheads as you were getting out of your rack in the morning, and it was a fiberglass insulated bulkhead at that, was a little disconcerting.  One thing's for sure- those were some very interesting landings.  Nothing but ocean one second and a face full of flight deck in another couple of seconds.  I never would've believed it was possible for a 100,000t ship to move like that if I hadn't seen it myself.  Our aircrews definitely earned their flight pay and hazardous duty pay.

Anyway, while you're busy enjoying your snow I can still walk outside without a jacket and not croak.

Offline

#13 2020-01-08 23:10:34

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,228
Website

Re: MDRS 2.0

Truthfully, how do I get a green card? I lived in Miami in 1999/2000 and keep asking every winter what I'm doing here. Work visa expire, INS rules say I had to return to Canada. I checked the INS website, don't see a way to get a greencard other than a US employer hiring me and sponsoring.

More and more I'm running into people here who claim they like this weather, complain in the summer when we finally get descent weather. One woman said she would like to move north. I was in God's River for work December 10 & 11, it was 10°C colder. Slipped on ice, bruised my hip.

But MDRS is a Mars analog. Do you realize how cold Mars is?

Last edited by RobertDyck (2020-01-08 23:29:49)

Offline

#14 2020-01-08 23:19:02

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,228
Website

Re: MDRS 2.0

Ps, 100,000t ship? Only an American aircraft carrier is that big. You're on a carrier? And they took a carrier inside the Antarctic circle?

Offline

#15 2020-01-08 23:29:19

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,929

Re: MDRS 2.0

Lets refocus on the analog being cold and we have a dust storm that has left the site cold and dark so ya we will need a hearty soul indeed and not some sort of softy...
So how would we best simulate but with a safety net for planning the what if, should it occur.
We have lots to learn and not the means to land all that we would need on the first trip.
Even a second and third trip will still have plenty of risk even if we were able to reuse all that is left behind from the previous mission.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB