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#127 2019-11-22 20:40:29

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,850

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#128 2019-11-22 21:35:45

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,866

Re: Louis' Solar Power Strategy

For SpaceNut re #126 and #127

Thanks for bringing this topic back to life, and for then providing the encouraging news about perovskite solar cells.

I ** like ** the idea that a disorderly system can be more productive than an orderly one.  The concept seems ** really ** appropriate at this time in American history.

(th)

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#129 2019-12-01 11:28:27

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,850

Re: Louis' Solar Power Strategy

Volume repost for thin film glass panels

SpaceNut wrote:

Well a 20% gets you an array of solid thin film of a panel that is with frame at least an inch in depth and you need to have 40,000 panels stacked inside a tiny volume that can only handle 2mt... which for the mass is 20 capsules to mars and by volume you need even more as a stack of the panels would be 3,333 ft tall.

The flexible thin film have efficiency sub 15 % not sure of mass or of the roll down size which they can be fitted into the capsule.

https://www.spacex.com/dragon    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Dragon
SpaceX’s Dragon capsule back on Earth with 3,400 pounds of cargo but thats with a parachute and splash down to which for mars means a trade of parachute mass and boosting the fuel to do a retro landing.

while its 4 m diameter its got an internal volume of just under 9 and about 6 m tall or roughly 200 inches.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … ctions.png

shape is anything but not adaptible for the panels to fit in. of which a single from the door upward stack and maybe 2 or 3 in a layer until we are at the door hatch entrance at maybe 1.5 to 2 from the bottom. Sure a man could load from the top hatch but if we can not get them out of the normal hatch then we will have a problem with that one as well.

So 200 panels single stacked per capsule out of the 40,000 you think we need is 200 capsules and if the number is 250 or 300 then the count will drop to 160 to 135 by volume required and thats just the panels....

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#130 2019-12-01 11:30:16

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,850

Re: Louis' Solar Power Strategy

repost flexible thin film panels

louis wrote:

I think Flisom is probably the closest to what I envisage.

https://flisom.com/industries-customize … els-films/

There is no need for heavy supportive frames on Mars - there ain't gonna be no hail, no thunder and lightning, no powerful tornadoes, no earthquakes, no floods, no rainstorms, no snowstorms...

The thin PV film could be attached to v. lightweight steel supports at intervals. 

SpaceNut wrote:

The thin film plastic flexible while its bendible the radius seems to be quite large for a sheet panel and its a 1/4 to to 1/2 due to the wiring attachment of the panels which will need to be wired together to form the voltage output that we desire.

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/flexib … panel.html

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/flexib … -roll.html

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#131 2019-12-01 11:52:06

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,850

Re: Louis' Solar Power Strategy

If we can make the first circumference 4 meters for the 4 panel layer for maximum bend and work to the inner diameter from the outer winding them in from the hatch door would be very difficult so its got to be from the top hatch for going in and out. That makes the inner diameter about 1.5 meters with the outer diameter say 3 meters. Panel is 1 cm depth per layer winding them in a circle inside each other.
So 70 layers of 4 panels on average is 280 possibly 300 max coiled up inside the Dragon.
That makes flexible only marginally better but at a 1/3 less power....

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#132 2019-12-01 14:52:28

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,850

Re: Louis' Solar Power Strategy

This is my question is that if we used the fairing or shroud for mars lander design could we do better as the shell would stay intact until its on the surface using retro rocket landing. All that would be ditched on the way down is the heatshield to all of the landing struts and engines to do there thing for a mars cargo lander.

23004328681_f754a1c2fd_o-683x1024.jpg

For the ATK ultraflex panels in a capsule cargo the motor would load in first from the top and would guess that we are looking at 10 to 15 assembly pairs. The sizing of the sets are customized in wattage and size so its going to hard to figure out the exact numbers but from this we do know what can be done. Mars solar for a pair is 10kw upward on diameter sizing.

http://rascal.nianet.org/wp-content/upl … tsheet.pdf

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/nmp/st8/tech/solar_array3.html

https://esto.nasa.gov/conferences/nstc2 … 7-0048.pdf

solar_array_base_mech.gif

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#133 2019-12-12 18:49:04

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,850

Re: Louis' Solar Power Strategy

This will be useful for some of the dust but not all conditions of what mars can throw at a panel on mars.

New method to remove dust on solar panels

The self-cleaning properties of the lotus leaf to shed new light on microscopic forces and mechanisms that can be optimized to remove dust from solar panels to maintain efficiency and light absorption. The new technique removed 98% of dust particles.

Particle removal increased from 41% on hydrophilic smooth Si wafers to 98% on superhydrophobic Si-based nanotextured surfaces. The researchers confirmed these results by measuring the adhesion of a micron-sized particle to the flat and nanotextured substrate using an atomic force microscope. They found that the adhesion in water is reduced by a factor of 30.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/acs.langmuir.9b01874
Research Report: "The Self-Cleaning Mechanism: Why Nanotexture and Hydrophobicity Matter"

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