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#126 2019-11-16 11:01:22

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

Fusion 360 trial version download and installation

The target machine for this first experiment is a 64 bit AMD with 8 Gb of ram. OS is Win 10 1903 (18362. 476)

Fusion 360 Client Downloader 10.9 Mb

Setting up xx% >> 100% then Sign In (same ID and PW as for Autodesk)

Select team name:  I decided to use tahanson43206  (it's not clear to me at this point if this is a cloud service or network accessible)

Note delay to set up team name.

Finally the program started.  The What's New button brought up a web page with this:

November 12, 2019  V2.0.6668 Updates

Note the blog shown on the page has 31 categories

As an exercise I performed Save As

The Save As function brought up a folder display.  I added a new Project and saved the empty project file.

So far so go.

Now I'm going to try to do the same thing on a laptop.

Edit: The installation on the laptop went smoothly, despite only having 4 Gb of ram, until the program asked for Sign In.

At that point it detected the already running copy on the desk top.  It offered multiple options, but the easiest for me is to simply log out on the desk top.

Edit 2019/11/29 ... To clarify ... since Fusion 360 is designed as a cloud application, it can (and does) enforce its licensing by allowing only one copy to be running at a time for a single-use license holder, such as a "personal use" licensee.  I don't see this as much of a limitation, because the work products are stored in the cloud, and they can be accessed by different machines running at different locations.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-11-29 20:58:45)

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#127 2019-11-16 11:03:26

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,565

Re: 3D Printers

For furniture make individual pieces for assembly. 2 long back leg combination uprights for the back, 2 from short legs for the bottom of the seat frame ect....wooden example:
Furn_Tucker_Chair_Natural_Oak_Angle_MV_0081_Crop_SH.jpg

then again for a couch like seat corrigated construction:
Biomimicry_3D_printed_soft_seat_by_Lilian_Van_Daal_dezeen_784_4.jpg

for those that like to recycle and rock:
Print-Your-City-The-New-Raw-designboom-1800.jpg

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#128 2019-11-16 21:37:07

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

For SpaceNut re topic ...

You may find the images on display at the Autodesk Fusion 360 gallery interesting.  Not too far down the list I found a chair that looks similar to the one you showed in post #127

http://gallery.autodesk.com/

I think that site is open to the public.  Please let me know if you run into a problem.

Edit: On page xvii of the preference of Cline (see reference in post above), I find these links:

www.3dhubs.com/talk -> 3D printing questions

Autodesk Fusion 360 YouTube Channel www.youtube.com/user/AutodeskFusion360

forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360/ct-p/1234 -> forum for more questions

Author's youTube Channel: youtube.com/profdrafting  -> lots of Fusion and other software tutorials

This list concludes the preface.  Part 1 Understanding Fusion 360 is next

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-11-16 21:51:35)

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#129 2019-11-16 23:06:37

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,452

Re: 3D Printers

Does anyone make a 3D printer that can "print" using spools of fibers (Carbon, glass, or natural) and resin or epoxy?

We already have fiber / tape laying machines for making aircraft and vehicles, but I'm talking about something that can produce complex shapes without the use of an expensive mold, like that wooden chair in SpaceNut's prior post, for example.

The chair was made by turning wood blanks on a lathe or otherwise milling blocks of wood.  That creates a lot of wasted wood.  Irrespective of whether or not the wood shavings can be used for some other purpose, such as making paper, the point of growing hardwoods is to make durable and functional furniture.  The plastic / resin couch (still looks like a chair to me) below it may function well enough for sitting on, but I don't think it's something you'd easily move around to change a lightbulb or stack in the corner of a room, for example, and it probably took forever to "print".

Anyway, I was just thinking that if we had a natural fiber tape laying machines that could "print" complex shapes without the use of molds of any kind, then perhaps something like Rattan (it grows really fast, is pretty darned strong, and very light weight) could be cut into thin fiber tapes, spools of the fiber would be fed into a 3D printer, and then used to fabricate furniture with uniform strength and weight.  The point is making something lighter than plastic but less expensive than a molded composite and without very costly and specialized tooling.  An iPad is sufficient to run one of these 3D printers and design the furniture.  Who knows, maybe we could actually produce enough furniture to give everyone in the world something to sit on.  It's less costly because it's less energy-intensive than making high strength plastics.  Someone has to babysit the printer to feed materials in, but there's plenty of labor in developing markets and they do need jobs.  It beats sitting and eating meals in the dirt every day of the week.

Remember that functional fungi that RobertDyck provided info on for making "leather" clothing and furniture?  This idea is something like that, except using natural fiber tapes.  Maybe the part you sit on could be made from functional fungi.  If everyone had a high quality leather upholstered chair and table to eat meals off of, that couldn't help but improve their lives.  Sure, you can make all of this stuff from all-natural materials if you have enough wood and leather, but those materials are not so easy to come by in many parts of the world without the money and infrastructure.  The all-synthetic materials like high strength plastic and steel are also expensive and heavy by way of comparison.

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#130 2019-11-17 07:20:42

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

For kbd512 re #129

Thanks for your contribution to this topic!  I hope that other forum members will take on the multiple interesting questions you have posed, as well as start thinking about the ideas you have proposed for inexpensive utility fabrication for "customers" around the world. 

By any chance did you notice my offer to post your essay on Supercapacitors in the Luf.org blog?  I'm hoping you will give that offer a go-ahead.

If you want to help this topic along, please consider taking up your (to me interesting) question about laying tape at one of the Autodesk forums given in a recent post above this one.

My plan is to try to lay a trail of bread crumbs for anyone who chances across this topic in the NewMars forum, to encourage them to learn how to design 3D objects using the free-to-students Fusion 360 software.

It seems plausible to me that learning how to program as well as how to operate a 3D printer would become as fundamental a skill in the near future as was learning to read, write and cipher at the turn of the century, when the industrial development of the United States was well under way.

(th)

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#131 2019-11-17 09:53:24

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,565

Re: 3D Printers

The wood chair when made out of plastics can be made in a compound manner in that you make a stack of what would resemble washers but with a square inner hole and then make a linear board like shape to place in the center. Then heat treat the assembly to make it more solid. The seat area is flat and just criss crossed to make it some what lighter with the angled holes for the rods you made to enter into to make the legs to seat.

There is also another method for the legs to seat assembly in each leg would get a pad with two angle holes to act as a foot for two rods to angle up to the seat as well.

Then again once can made flat panels for the sides of the chair with a hole for each rod like crossing member to join the sides together to make the chair.

Now the feed stock can come as a compound that sets up when heated for disposion on the the surface used to build on. Other machines use reels of plastic string in a variety of materials. The shape of the material on the reel depends on the head heating method being used to make the deposit onto the plate surface for building.

The real issue for mars is making the materials from insitu machines to form the feed stock to make the 3D machine work once the little bit of materials we use sent with it are gone.

Like kbd512 indicates the chair does not need to be made all of plastics as we can use other materials.

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#132 2019-11-17 12:21:33

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,272
Website

Re: 3D Printers

Well, we already have machines that can weave cotton and wool, so what kdb suggests shouldn't be infeasible with modern technology. Personally I'd like to build something to directly weave items of clothing from cotton, saving the expense of making cloth, cutting it into shapes, and getting a human to turn it into a T-shirt or jeans or whatever else you need. Perhaps one could be made to produce wicker objects as well.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#133 2019-11-17 16:19:29

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,452

Re: 3D Printers

Terraformer,

I'm also interested in how 3D weaving technology, such as that done by Bally Ribbon Mills for heat shielding, on behalf of NASA, could be used to produce structural composite parts by weaving fibers into a 3D shape around a mold and then infusing the woven cloth with epoxy to avoid much of the wasted fabric associated with making aircraft or vehicle parts and wind turbine blades from layers of fabric.  A very low scrap rate and robotic fabrication could drastically reduce the cost and fabrication time for structural composites made by this method when compared to traditional hand-layup of multiple fabric plies.  It would also increase the uniformity of strength of those parts since the fabric would be subject to less distortion of the fibers during the layup / weaving process and the directionality of the woven fiber would be computer-controlled.  Given the ability of CNT to bend without breaking, CNT fiber would be an ideal candidate for this process.

The entire fuselage of an airliner could be woven from CNT around a mold, similar to current robotic tape layup methods but without the need to cure multiple separate plies of pre-preg around multiple fuselage section molds, followed by a single resin infusion and autoclaving process.  Afterwards, you have a nearly finished part with only one trip to the autoclave, unlike current methods that require autoclaving of each section followed by a final trip to the full fuselage-sized autoclave after all of the individual fuselage sections are joined together.  The mold would be disassembled from the inside of the fuselage after autoclaving and removed via the various doors on the airframe.  To assure uniformity for interchangeability of internally bonded or fastened parts, the inner mold line dimensions are what matter most for this particular part.  I know that Airbus does it the other way, but I think Boeing has it right in this case if fabrication time is a consideration.  Rather than priming and painting parts with multiple coats, a layer of PTFE powder could be electrostatically applied and "melted" onto the parts to protect them from the elements.  The plastic should be less subject to cracking from minor flexing than paint and far less expensive, if somewhat less durable than paint when it comes to impacts with other flying critters.  It'd still be much easier and faster to reapply than paint, and maintenance of protective coatings is inevitable.

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#134 2019-11-17 17:50:10

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,792

Re: 3D Printers

I like that idea about finished cotton clothing.

Terraformer wrote:

Well, we already have machines that can weave cotton and wool, so what kdb suggests shouldn't be infeasible with modern technology. Personally I'd like to build something to directly weave items of clothing from cotton, saving the expense of making cloth, cutting it into shapes, and getting a human to turn it into a T-shirt or jeans or whatever else you need. Perhaps one could be made to produce wicker objects as well.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#135 2019-11-17 17:54:01

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,792

Re: 3D Printers

Sounds a bit more like an industrial robot is required for weaving, rather than a 3D printer per se...but that's just a matter of semantics I guess.

Another approach could be to make  3D print a form of MDF. MDF can use waste wood. Rather than producing planks of MDF, you might be able to 3D print it into shapes for furniture like chairs and sofas and then apply some external coating. MDF is heavy though!


kbd512 wrote:

Does anyone make a 3D printer that can "print" using spools of fibers (Carbon, glass, or natural) and resin or epoxy?

We already have fiber / tape laying machines for making aircraft and vehicles, but I'm talking about something that can produce complex shapes without the use of an expensive mold, like that wooden chair in SpaceNut's prior post, for example.

The chair was made by turning wood blanks on a lathe or otherwise milling blocks of wood.  That creates a lot of wasted wood.  Irrespective of whether or not the wood shavings can be used for some other purpose, such as making paper, the point of growing hardwoods is to make durable and functional furniture.  The plastic / resin couch (still looks like a chair to me) below it may function well enough for sitting on, but I don't think it's something you'd easily move around to change a lightbulb or stack in the corner of a room, for example, and it probably took forever to "print".

Anyway, I was just thinking that if we had a natural fiber tape laying machines that could "print" complex shapes without the use of molds of any kind, then perhaps something like Rattan (it grows really fast, is pretty darned strong, and very light weight) could be cut into thin fiber tapes, spools of the fiber would be fed into a 3D printer, and then used to fabricate furniture with uniform strength and weight.  The point is making something lighter than plastic but less expensive than a molded composite and without very costly and specialized tooling.  An iPad is sufficient to run one of these 3D printers and design the furniture.  Who knows, maybe we could actually produce enough furniture to give everyone in the world something to sit on.  It's less costly because it's less energy-intensive than making high strength plastics.  Someone has to babysit the printer to feed materials in, but there's plenty of labor in developing markets and they do need jobs.  It beats sitting and eating meals in the dirt every day of the week.

Remember that functional fungi that RobertDyck provided info on for making "leather" clothing and furniture?  This idea is something like that, except using natural fiber tapes.  Maybe the part you sit on could be made from functional fungi.  If everyone had a high quality leather upholstered chair and table to eat meals off of, that couldn't help but improve their lives.  Sure, you can make all of this stuff from all-natural materials if you have enough wood and leather, but those materials are not so easy to come by in many parts of the world without the money and infrastructure.  The all-synthetic materials like high strength plastic and steel are also expensive and heavy by way of comparison.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#136 2019-11-17 22:57:20

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

For Louis re #135

Your comparison of robots with 3D printers is interesting, and worth discussing in light of kbd512's vision of weaving ribbon and baking it in glue (I'm over simplifying).  A 3D printer (as I think of it) produces a stream of hot/semi-liquid material that hardens in a short time.  As i understand kbd512's proposal, a device would deliver a ribbon of non-soft material in a way that allows a shape to be constructed.  After the shape has been constructed, a procedure would be initiated to encase the ribbon in hot/liquid material that would then solidify.  The resulting shape would (presumably) have great strength due to the foundation of the ribbon, and the interwoven nature of the structure.

In a post earlier in this topic, I offered a link to a story about a new kind of 3D printer that can (apparently) deliver a stream of material that encloses fiber strands, so that as the stream cools it will have much greater strength than is possible with traditional plastic filament.  The output of the new printer was reported to be strong enough for use in production of end user equipment, and not limited to printing of models for engineering evaluation as is generally true at present.

***
Today, I started Fusion 360 on a desktop system, and attempted to follow Cline.

2019/11/17 Chapter 1

The Fusion 360 Interface

Exercise: Save As to Cloud
    Open from Cloud
    Export to local disk
    Verify file is present on local disk

Pages 3-5 seem to match the current program

However, pages 6 and 7 did not gel in this first session.

The exercise was to create a rectangle on the work surface, but while indications of something happening appeared, nothing stuck.

I'll come back to this tomorrow.

This is my first attempt to work with the program, and there may be subtle differences between the version I have and the one used by Ms. Cline for the 2018 edition. 

Edit: I decided to see if Ms. Cline had posted anything about the interface changes (if any) and discovered she's provided a YouTube video dated October 19th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBaLQJDYBp4

For anyone interested in seeing what the opening section of Chapter 1 ** should ** look like, the video is a good introduction.

Edit 2019/11/19 ... Apparently my system is too old to run properly with Fusion 360.  It reported a problem with the graphics card, and the manufacturer of the graphics card shows it as a legacy product.  The drivers on offer are even older than the Windows 10 drivers in use now.  Fortunately, the system works fine with Blender and everything else I need to run on this system, but it is disappointing to have to face the fact that the world has moved on a bit since this system was new.

If anyone else tries Fusion 360, I'll be interested in your experience.

Edit: 2019/11/21 A newer notebook apparently has a graphics chip that is new enough to run Fusion 360 correctly.

I'm planning to resume a step-by-step report based upon Lydia Cline's book.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-11-21 15:20:22)

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#137 2019-11-18 03:41:31

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,272
Website

Re: 3D Printers

louis,

MDF requires toxic chemicals, and can't be printed anyway - it needs compression to form. If we're going to use compression, why not just use compressed cellulose? The chemical treatment they use isn't part of the wood itself, so we don't have to worry about off gassing from the product. I wonder if we could compress it into moulds to get shapes other than flat sheets?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#138 2019-11-18 04:52:51

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,792

Re: 3D Printers

The toxicity is probably less of an issue on Mars where you could have an isolated 3D printer hab and simply vent any gases.

The compressed wood looks interesting. I wonder whether you could do something similar with quick-growing bamboo? Of course bamboo itself is very strong - even stronger than dense maple wood.

Terraformer wrote:

louis,

MDF requires toxic chemicals, and can't be printed anyway - it needs compression to form. If we're going to use compression, why not just use compressed cellulose? The chemical treatment they use isn't part of the wood itself, so we don't have to worry about off gassing from the product. I wonder if we could compress it into moulds to get shapes other than flat sheets?


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#139 2019-11-18 10:25:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,565

Re: 3D Printers

We gone from plastics to metal to now medium density fiberboard (MDF) another wood is particle board, fiber board ect these are cheap building materials that use adhesives to bind the wood pieces to make a solid board unlike plywood which is layers of wood glued together.

mdf_vs_plywood_whats_the_difference.jpg

Simply put, particle board is a waste-wood product made by heat pressing wood chips, sawmill shavings, or even sawdust and resin together. To make the end product water resistant, fireproof, and/or insect-proof chemicals are used including wax, dyes, wetting agents, and release agents. After the resin, chemicals, and wood scraps have been mixed together, the liquid mixture is made into a sheet.

https://www.displays2go.com/Guide/Compa … Plywood-17

Moderately moldable when in the mixed state and not pressed or dried to shape yet.

The ability to shape after with cutting, milling and drilling allows for flexibility to build items with. As noted above any dried cellulose materials would work to make this type of product including bamboo.

https://www.allthat3d.com/wood-filament/

https://www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2011/4/1/ … -wood.html

The adhesive and treating materials are the only thing that posses any hazard where chemical handling and venting is all that you need to pay attention to.

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#140 2019-11-18 11:59:02

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,272
Website

Re: 3D Printers

The toxicity issue isn't (just) the manufacturing, but in use. We can't open the windows on Mars and replace it with fresh air from the atmosphere.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#141 2019-11-18 12:05:57

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,792

Re: 3D Printers

Very true. That is something that needs to be thought about.

Terraformer wrote:

The toxicity issue isn't (just) the manufacturing, but in use. We can't open the windows on Mars and replace it with fresh air from the atmosphere.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#142 2019-11-18 16:21:31

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,565

Re: 3D Printers

Since we are in control of the MDF dust particles which are much more harmful than regular dust particles because they are coated with a toxic chemical called formaldehyde there is not fear if we do what is required for safety. The formaldehyde, a known human carcinogen.Formaldehyde, additionally, is a volatile organic compound (VOC), making it likely to off-gas into the indoor environment.

http://www.woodbywy.com/SDS/SDS8564206.pdf
Safety Data Sheet (SDS) ood and Wood Dust (Without Chemical Treatments or Resins/Additives), including Logs, Chips and Sawdust

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis30.pdf
Toxic woods

https://compomat.com/wp-content/uploads … -Flour.pdf
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET WOOD FLOUR / SHAVINGS

First step in any wood working is controling the dust
https://toolcrib.com/blog/2008/06/28-wa … woodchips/

https://www.epa.gov/formaldehyde/questi … e-flooring
Questions and Answers Regarding Laminate Flooring

https://healthymaterialslab.org/materia … -materials
Healthy Materials Lab | Composite Wood Products

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#143 2019-11-26 15:43:39

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

This is an update from a vendor of 3D Printers.

This report may be of interest for those following developments relating to 3D Printing.

Q: How is Multi Jet Fusion (MJF) different
from other 3D printing technologies?
A: The technology is a thermoplastic, powder-bed
fusion process that is similar to laser sintering
except with increases in build quality and material
performance, allowing higher quantities of functional
parts to be produced at a lower unit cost. The
process also provides the user with over five times
faster cycle times compared with laser sintering.
Significant material cost savings are achieved
because Multi Jet Fusion reuses nearly 100 percent
of unused material.
Small batch manufacturing is the primary value of
MJF in the mix of available 3D printing technologies.
The machine itself uses multiple build units that can
be swapped out easily. After job completion, one
build unit rolls into a Jet Fusion Processing Station
for cooling, unpacking the parts, and recovery
and refreshing the build material, while a second
build unit that has already been refreshed by the
processing station is rolled into the printer—allowing
for a continuous production cycle ideal for short-run
manufacturing.

(th)

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#144 2019-11-29 20:55:57

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

for Louis .... is this the same concept as you saw at the exposition in London?  It seems similar.

I note the claim of "extremely high strength" by combining plastic and basalt, which you mentioned in your post about the exposition.

Here is a return of a Mars concept to Earth application.  I haven't studied the article in depth yet, but get the impression this is a technique that might deliver high quality low cost housing, if occupants are willing to accept (somewhat exotic) styling.

"It's a biopolymer - means it's a plastic, but it's made from plants. So it's not a petroleum product and it's reinforced with basalt fibers. Basalt is that rock that we find on Mars but we also find on Earth. So the combination of those two materials get this extremely high strength."

h t t p s://www.yahoo.com/news/mars-inspires-fully-recyclable-homes-161646876.h t m l

SearchTerm:Basalt3DPrinter

This 3D printed eco-home is based on technology used to make prototype homes for astronauts living on Mars.

AI SpaceFactory - a New York-based design and architecture firm - won half a million dollars from NASA for 3D-printing the Mars base.

It was made from materials that could be found on Mars.

Now they've made an earth version, built on the same green principles.

In fact, they've reused parts of the Mars model itself.

2019/12/02 ... by any chance, could this technology be used to build fully functional homes for $1000 or so?

I'm discounting the cost of land, and considering only the structure.

Edit:

I like this image because it shows a window treatment for one of these conical shelters.

https://global-uploads.webflow.com/5ca7 … f-tera.jpg

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-12-02 11:36:08)

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#145 2019-11-29 22:14:47

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,565

Re: 3D Printers

From the article

The exterior is made of a mix of basalt and a biopolymer developed from crops like corn and sugar cane.
NASA tests found it was 50 percent stronger and more durable than concrete, as well as being recyclable and biodegradable.

This sounds like its ground rock and mixed to form a paste to make a sand wall which would dry hard under the correct controls of temperature or it could be setup with laser heat....

biopolymer - means it's a plastic, but it's made from plants.

Not many plants until there is a green house so its going to be a non plant based binder until we have them running.

reinforced with basalt fibers.

This means after crushing we are heating and spinning glass from it...

3D printed on site. The 500-square-foot, two-story space

Ok its a tiny home but its more than the tuna cans that we will come in a dragon and if its a starship its going to be for small groups or families.

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#146 2019-11-30 07:20:11

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

For SpaceNut re #147

Thanks for taking a closer look at the basalt-plastic feed stock, and a demonstration print.

It might be helpful for forum readers to consider the range of design options available to the 3D Print designer, using the hardware shown, along with this new robust material.

Is there a physical limit to the size of the 3D printer hardware?    I doubt it.   Is there a reason why multiple print arms could not be printing simultaneously?
I don't see a physical reason why not.  Is there a reason why multiple print heads could not be mounted on the ends of the swing arms?  I don't see a physical reason.

What I do see are challenges to engineers designing 3D Print hardware to rapidly deploy large volumes of this new material.

Fortunately, the human race is growing new engineers able to work in this space.  I'm not sure how many there ARE, in the various nations on Earth, but I'm guessing the total number might be on the order of 1% of the population.

The shapes that I see available for this particular design are (essentially infinite) variations on cylinders with conical roofs.

The famous onion shaped roofs to church buildings in Moscow come to mind.

In Moscow's Red Square gaze up at the vibrant conical roofs and distinctive onion domes of Saint Basil's Cathedral. Hop on an overnight train through Russia's vast landscape to discover St. Petersburg's imperial history, crystalline canals, and Winter Palace.
Moscow & St. Petersburg | Explorica
https://www.explorica.com › educational-tours › russia

I would guess (without having much data except observation of a few examples) that any high school student with minimal exposure to STEM subjects could design buildings using this construction method as a pattern.  Openings between buildings, and such niceties as windows and walls inside the structures would require a bit more finesse. 

Edit: A few minutes after posting the above, and after looking at the onion domes in Red Square (and elsewhere in Russia) I couldn't resist thinking about the mechanics of designing doors and windows for manufacture by the 3D printer discussed in the article. 

An issue facing a 3D Printer designer is how to bridge space that needs to be open in structures.  Fortunately, authors of software that adapts designs from a high level view to the realities of the features of a particular 3D printer hardware configuration have developed solutions involving programming of support structures inside the build.  These support structures are then removed after the build is complete and the object removed to a post-print area.

in the case of windows and doors for the onion dome/cylindrical buildings that might be imagined as possible using this technique, I am thinking of designing a layer of removable material at the borders between windows and the walls in which they are embedded, for example.  The windows could be knocked out (gently) after the build has cooled, and replaced with custom designed glass windows, which which be fabricated using the same program, adapted for the smaller shape.

Doors might be done in a similar way, except that it is possible the punched out section might itself be trimmed and adapted as a door.  If such a door were designed with beveled edges, it might provide an air tight seal for a location such as Mars, where there would always be greater pressure inside a building than out.

That feature might be useful on Earth,  where weather patterns may cause temporary low pressure in the vicinity of a building.  It would be helpful for doors to seal themselves against the frame in such situations.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-11-30 07:39:36)

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#147 2019-11-30 10:10:19

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

Call for Participation:

As of this date, there are no (other) active contributing members of the NewMars forum who who admit to an interest in 3D Printer object design.

In the past JoshNH4H reported an interest in the topic, and some experience, but he has been on sabbatical in recent months.

I'd like to invite persons who chance upon this forum, and who have an active interest in design of objects for 3D Printing, to consider taking the risk of running the registration gauntlet to see if they can add content to this topic over time.

In the present instance, I would like to see a variety of designs for houses and buildings in general designed to be fabricated by the new basalt-plastic 3D Printer reported a few messages back.

Designs can be shared with others via Thingiverse or other cloud sites.  I use Shapeways because I do not own a 3D printer, but the free sites work perfectly well to allow display of creativity and the option to share designs for those who are generous.

Edit: To be clear, upload to Shapeways is free, and designs can be given away there.  However, the Shapeways organization is a for-profit entity, which distinguishes it from the free sites.

On the OTHER hand, if a talented designer is thinking of showing their designs for potential sale, then a site like Shapeways would be worth considering.

The Arabian model of domed houses and buildings is of particular interest to me.  I have copies of books by a noted Iranian designer, and would be happy to share the titles with anyone interested.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-11-30 10:13:53)

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#148 2019-11-30 18:10:51

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,565

Re: 3D Printers

tahanson43206, you might have better luck reaching out to 3d forums for what you are looking to do. Its not that newmars will not want to do something through mars society its something other that makes it that way for some of us.

https://all3dp.com/2/best-3d-printing-f … nd-groups/

All3DP is an editorially independent publication. Editorial content, on principle, can not be bought or influenced. To keep All3DP free and independent, we finance ourselves through advertising and affiliate revenues. When you purchase using a shopping link on our site we earn an affiliate commission. Learn more

https://3dprintboard.com/
Welcome to the 3D Printing Forum - 3D Print Board.

https://www.3dprintforums.com/forum/

https://www.3dprintingforum.org/

https://www.shapeways.com/forum/

https://www.3dhubs.com/talk/

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#149 2019-11-30 20:06:42

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

For SpaceNut re #148

Thank you for thinking about finding possible future NewMars contributors in 3D Printer forums.

And thanks for the links to 3D Printer interest groups.

I agree that considering the population of people interested in 3D Printers (probably) numbers in the millions, there ought to be at least one (other) member of that population who is interested in the Mars project.  However, in the years I've been active in a local 3D printer interest group, I have met only one person who has an interest in space, let alone Mars.

That doesn't mean none of the people I've met have an interest in space.  The subject simply does not come up unless I bring it up.

The converse is more promising, in that at least three members of the NewMars forum community have expressed an interest in 3D printing as one of the technologies that might prove useful on Mars.

My bet is that keeping the 3D printer topic alive in the NewMars forum has a far greater chance of reaching a person who might be interested in developing designs for Mars, than would be true for a random outreach to 3D printer forums.

That said, I recognize that the chance of such a person actually visiting the NewMars forum, let alone deciding to take part, is quite small.

Mars may complete a full orbit without such a person posting on the forum.

I think the only reasonable strategy is to keep the door open and the welcome sign lit.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-11-30 20:08:26)

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#150 2019-12-02 11:41:08

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 2,569

Re: 3D Printers

Following up on basalt mixture for 3D printing feedstock:

https://3dprint.com/246666/anisoprint-n … -printing/

According to Composites Manufacturing, basalt fiber is formed from melted and drawn basalt rock, which covers almost one-third of the earth’s surface. Basalt furnaces are heated to about 1,500° Celsius, and the rock is melted before being drawn through platinum/rhodium bushings to form fibers. While leaving the furnace, these fibers are treated with sizing, which prepares them to be used in downstream applications, and for binding with resin systems.

Basalt also has a unique feature: radio transparency. It’s a great option for non-conductive elements, as parts made with CBF don’t alter the amplitude and phase of radio-frequency electromagnetic waves that are transmitted through it too much.

I'm wondering about the English used in this report:

"treated with sizing" could mean there is a substance called "sizing" (which would be a new concept for me at least)

or, the expression could be an attempt by a non-English speaker to imply that the drawn threads are somehow "sized".

If anyone in the forum membership knows, I'd appreciate a clarification.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-12-02 11:44:18)

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