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#1 2019-04-08 12:45:26

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,472

Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

https://www.space.com/interstellar-obje … rowth.html
Quote:

'Oumuamua might form the heart of an alien planet someday.
Widely wandering bodies such as the odd, needle-shaped 'Oumuamua — the first interstellar object ever confirmed in our own solar system — commonly seed nascent planetary systems, a new study suggests.
Such visitors likely serve as scaffolds, allowing alien worlds to take shape much faster than they otherwise would, researchers said.

I have argued similar to this in the past, objects spit out of a star system wandering into a stellar nursery and being captured by drag, gravitation, and accretion of new materials.

This if true along with other factors, can help to explain how there are so many different star system configurations.  I will go as far as to add that "Seeds" might actually condense into stars as well.

Other factors are the amount of radio-active materials from super nova in the mix that accretes, and of course the chemical mix.

So if you look at our planets, it is fair to say that we cannot be certain if these planets accreted on their own, or may have had an beginning "Seed".

As for carriers for life, (Which the article does not speculate on), but I will speculate on:  Ideally significant radioactivity in the object, ideally the object of a size perhaps Mars>Life Carrier<Earth.

To carry life interstellar distances, say over a billion years?  A warm planets in it's heart, newly formed, and infected, with liquid water under it's surface, or even oceans, above the solids, most likely the ocean covered with ice.  And even more ideal, a Hydrogen atmosphere which will also help to retrain heat.  If an ideal world the Hydrogen might be thick enough to allow Nitrogen to vaporize, perhaps Argon as well, Methane, and maybe even CO2.

But my understanding is that if you could have water 10 miles down, you could have a habitable layer even without the atmosphere.

Upon being captured in the "Web" of a stellar nursery, the object would begin to accrete materials which would start to heat it up, and life could come closer and closer to the surface.  Should there be condensed additional planets, and planemos of smaller sizes, then the small impactors could impact and cause panspermia to the other new planets in the star nursery.

I only say this this looks sensible to me.  I have no proof that life spreading in this way has actually occurred.

But again, looking at our planets, and returning to the notion that planets can be seeded to condense faster, and in different ways of ultimate form, then we should not assume that Mars is simply a Mini-Earth.

That's enough for now I think.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-04-08 12:59:06)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#2 2019-04-08 16:18:22

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,158

Re: Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

I was disappointed that a rover / lander / orbiter combination mission could not be put together quick enough to take its chanced occurance into favor for finding out more about it.

The power sources for each would need to have been RTG at a minimum so as to make them last for as long as we could for its outward journey.

It would need to have the abilities to scan with radar, sample to solve for composition of materials and drill into the surface to depths to see what is inside if possible.

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#3 2019-04-08 20:36:12

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,472

Re: Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

I will respond as well as I can.

What we might want for a fast response to something like an interstellar visitor, then would be heightened ability to detect such an interstellar visitor ASAP, and the ability to slam together structures to facilitate such a mission really fast.  To do that then the structures to slam together need to be things that will exist prior to that event.  To be economic, then these structures must be of common place usage.

For fast reactions I would think that they might use Raptor engines, and fuel depots.

I have previously said what I thought Star-Hopper should evolve into.  I think it should try to be a second stage of a three stage version of BFR.  Super-Heavy>Star-Hopper>Upper-Stage.

My view is that Star-Hopper should be capable of extended service off planet, but should be morphable to have a heat shield complete to allow it to land on Earth.  In my view, Star-Hopper (Advanced), should when it's heat shield is fully in place be able to aero-burn into the Earth's atmosphere nose first, fins last.  By whatever means will dissipate the heat and preserver the structure of "Star-Hopper-Advanced".  Then after nose down aero-burn, a 180 degree turn to land on fixed fins, using hover-slam with raptor engines. The Super-Heavy can be the same one that will assist Starship.

As for the upper stage, I see it as being either a wet-lab to orbit situation of use, or expendable.
An expendable version might have a engine or so.  You might strap onto it fuel depots, if the objective is worth the expenditure.  Perhaps an interstellar visitor would be worth it.  So, you would quickly convert a wet-lab device to a self powered device.  I am sure you would want plans in advance on how to do this.  You might also do it to visit the outer solar system anyway.

I am thinking that NASA Kilo-Power units could be included.

As for instrumentation, I think it would be very hard to land on such an object but I guess if you have the $$$ and prep for it ahead of time, it might be done.

But to cut costs, I would suppose a flyby, perhaps with impactors striking the object if it is not detected to be an alien machine (Which I don't think it will be), and even a chance for the probe to collect dust from the impacts if it follows the impactors.

Radar?  Well maybe.  Flyby radar?  Maybe?

Could robotic methods analyze any dust collected from the impactors?  Well we have some proficiency upgrades to accomplish to do that.  Otherwise your mission has to be able to bring the samples back to some base of some kind.

That is as close as I have gotten in my mind to what you want, as I may think potentials may be obtainable.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-04-08 20:54:01)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#4 2019-04-09 16:06:18

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,158

Re: Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

Some who, what, where, when for Oumuamua as researched. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBOumuamua

It came, it went and we saw a first of a kind...of which we almost missed it. First seen by

Robert Weryk using the Pan-STARRS telescope at Haleakala Observatory, Hawaii, on 19 October 2017, 40 days after it passed its closest point to the Sun. When it was first observed, it was about 33,000,000 km (21,000,000 mi; 0.22 AU) from Earth (about 85 times as far away as the Moon), and already heading away from the Sun.

Oumuamua_orbit_at_perihelion.png?mw=600

Current speed Velocity km/s at an approximate distance from the sun of 10 AU sometime in 2019 it will be traveling at 29.51 and slowing.

http://www.astronomy.com/news/2018/11/w … t-oumuamua

‘Oumuamua is expected to reach the Kuiper belt in about 2024, and pass the edge of the Kuiper belt in late 2025. It will pass the most distant location the Voyagers have reached, she says, in about 2038. By 2196, it will again be 1,000 AU from the Sun, although our Oort Cloud is projected to extend beyond 100,000 AU, so when ‘Oumuamua truly passes the “edge” of the solar system depends on where you define that edge.

ESA’s Gaia stellar surveyor, finds candidates for interstellar ‘Oumuamua’s home

https://www.astrobio.net/also-in-news/t … -its-home/

Even the fastest of launches for New Horizons was launched on an Atlas V rocket directly into an Earth-and-solar escape trajectory with a speed of about 16.26 km/s which is not going to be fast enough to catch the visitor with out an lot more energy to make it go faster.

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#5 2019-09-12 07:18:47

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,055

Re: Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

Void started this topic about Oumuamua, so this seems like a good place to note the possible arrival of another interstellar object.

It is not yet proven that the object reported in the article below *is* from outside the Solar System, but (apparently) a number of astronomers are working to gather data to determine the path.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/second-myste … 00143.html

I am particularly happy to see, in the closing paragraphs, hints that at least one person is thinking about mounting an expedition to place a probe on such objects.

(th)

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#6 2019-09-12 16:49:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,158

Re: Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

What makes find these pieces of rock problematic is that its hard to see them coming and harder when they are off the normal plane of the planets orbiting the sun. Clearly something is disturbing them from where they normally stay in the ort cloud.
Its to bad that nasa does not have a stripped down explorer ready to launch at such an opportunity....

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#7 2019-09-17 15:34:50

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,260

Re: Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

Good idea, Spacenut
It could perhaps be an orbiter, then the nature of the body's surface and its mass wouldn't be restrict the deployment of the single design too much.
It could be patterned on the probes we have already sent to solar system asteroids and outer planets, without the landers and sample grabbers.
It must be low mass as it will have to be accelerated to hyperbolic velocity with a big rocket and will use nuclear power so it can continue to operate as it moves away from the sun.
Suggested instruments might be much like the Cassini probe.

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#8 2019-09-17 16:12:19

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,158

Re: Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

I like that plan for the probe design but its got to be stripped down as Nasa did a flagship unit costing in the billions we need something more in the Scout cost level.

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#9 2019-10-11 18:53:47

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,158

Re: Interstellar Objects Like 'Oumuamua Might Jump-Start Planet Formation

Seems we have another coming into the solar system.

https://www.livescience.com/mysterious- … risov.html

A Second Interstellar Visitor Has Arrived in Our Solar System. This Time, Astronomers Think They Know Where It Came From

other topic http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8810

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