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#26 2019-08-13 20:08:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,158

Re: Technology needed for Mars

Seems that we have yet another use for Carbon Nanotubes as these Damaged hearts rewired with nanotube fibers

Researchers at Texas Heart Institute and Rice University have confirmed that flexible, conductive fibers made of carbon nanotubes can bridge damaged tissue to deliver electrical signals and keep hearts beating despite congestive heart failure or dilated cardiomyopathy. Thin, flexible fibers made of carbon nanotubes have now proven able to bridge damaged heart tissues and deliver the electrical signals needed to keep those hearts beating.

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#27 2019-10-08 08:54:41

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,055

Re: Technology needed for Mars

For SpaceNut re topic ...

I let a newsletter offer tempt me into subscribing recently.

This item may be of interest to a forum reader down the line:

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sboa344/sboa344.pdf

You have to sign up to see the full article but subscription is free.

Kirby Kruckmeyer
ABSTRACT
Historically, satellite programs have used space grade, hermetically sealed, QML-V qualified components
for enhanced reliability and radiation hardness. With the emergence of “NewSpace,” there has been more
interest in using plastic encapsulated microcircuits (PEM) in space for a variety of reasons. NewSpace is a
loosely defined term covering some of the trends in the space ecosystem, including the emerging private
spaceflight industry and programs that have reduced reliability, lifetime, and radiation requirements. PEMs
become more attractive because leading edge products are not available as space qualified products and
PEMs generally have smaller footprints and are lighter than the ceramic packages used in space qualified
products. It has been recognized that there is a quality and reliability risk in using commercial-off the shelf
(COTS) products and some space programs have been investigating using automotive grade AEC-Q100
products with more stringent qualification requirements. However, the extra qualification steps in Q100
parts do not meet all the requirements of a space application, even for those space applications with
reduced requirements. For instance, commercial low earth orbit (LEO) applications with a projected three
year life still have to meet radiation goals that many PEM products do not survive. One of the biggest
challenges for a satellite program is finding and then testing those products that meet the radiation goals.
Although radiation performance may be biggest obstacle to using some COTS or automotive products in
space, there are a number of other risks and factors to consider, such as tin whiskers, copper bond wires,
rated temperature range, and package outgassing. How is a customer to know if a product has the right
stuff to even be considered for a space mission?

I have omitted the name of the corporate underwriter to fit with forum tradition.

(th)

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#28 2019-10-08 16:53:29

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,158

Re: Technology needed for Mars

Some of the once damaging effects of radiation have gotten less as the parts get smaller and with much more testing after coating the parts with conformal coatings they are pretty much sealed from anything that would cause corrosion or moisture to get into the circuits.

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#29 2020-01-06 19:17:08

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,055

Re: Technology needed for Mars

For SpaceNut ...

The link below is from Lizard King of luf.org

It applies to more than one topic, so I'll be posting it where it seems to fit.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/09 … iquid-fuel

In this case, a Mars expedition would use this technology to capture water vapor and CO2 from the atmosphere.

(th)

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#30 2020-07-18 15:17:37

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,055

Re: Technology needed for Mars

For SpaceNut re Topic ...

I was looking for an existing topic where the suggestion which follows would fit...

It would fit just as well in a topic "Technology needed for Earth" ...

There is a business opportunity with multiple avenues for earning income while providing needed services.

When Magellan set sail for his Around the World venture, he included a barber in his crew.  That was 500 years ago, and the niceties of proper appearance were known to the aristocrats of the time, but in Magellan's case, I'm of the opinion he included a barber for ALL the members of the crew, and not just for the captains and other officers.

In the case of an expedition to Mars, I do ** not ** expect there will be a manifest slot for a barber.

Instead, a technology to allow individual crew members to trim their own hair would seem (to me at least) a reasonable capability to include. 

This is the first time I've thought about what members of the ISS do about keeping trim.

It would not be surprising if a bit of hair trimming is a part of the responsibility of crew members.

In any case, what this post is about is the business opportunity for Mars, ** and ** for Earth, for people to be able to cut their own hair.

There is a product or system called "Magic Mirror" that is (apparently) available for download from the Internet.

A local computer group gave a presentation on the system, and it is available for viewing on YouTube.  I'll post the link if anyone is interested. 

However, "Magic Mirror" turns out NOT to be what I was hoping for.

What I am imagining is a robot with a capability of maneuvering an electric clippers in one "hand" and a comb in the other, while the operator views a (presumably large) computer screen in order to guide the motions of the robot arms.

The potential market opportunity for Earth seems significant.

But ** here ** is the angle that I'm hoping you (in particular) SpaceNut will appreciate ...

I am interested in designing this system so that ** real ** barbers can operate the equipment remotely.

Thus, the potential exists to provide gainful employment for the thousands of Earth humans who have mastered the art of barbering, while at the same time eliminating travel time from the schedules of countless customers.

SpaceNut ... in the past, when I have offered suggestions for teleoperation, you have (on occasion) translated the suggestion into something involving AI level robotics!  This is ** not ** intended to be any such thing.

I am looking for opportunities to provide gainful employment for thousands of people alive today, and an ** not ** interested in eliminating jobs, as an AI level robot would do.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-07-23 08:32:02)

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#31 2020-07-18 16:33:08

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,158

Re: Technology needed for Mars

Sort of an extension of the hand controls that allow the operator to sit in a booth and to work the controls so that the tools move to the places that we are telling them to move to. Sort of like a tactile suit to save movements to a computer program for later use.

The barber angle would mean comradery of crew such that they care for each others appearance.
There are lots of other activity which include medical that we would want to learn how to do for others...
A Floby was the vacuum cleaner like attachment that was used to groom hair but you are correct that having another person around that would want to do the hair could not be something that all would want to do for each other so a tactile computer interface to control robotic arms that would make use of the tools would seem quite challenging for the person that fears being cut by the tools.

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#32 2020-07-18 17:00:41

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,548

Re: Technology needed for Mars

tahanson43206,

Out of necessity, Mars will have at least 10 "remote maintainers" to support each colonist braving the new frontier, at least initially.  This is no different than how our military functions.  For each person in our military, there are at least a dozen people directly employed, full-time, to supply all of the food / fuel / depot level maintenance of the machines, etc.  We can easily create standing armies of gainfully employed support personnel to supply our space exploitation / colonization endeavors.  This is how the endeavor will ultimately "pay for itself" (creating gainful employment to produce the goods and services that the colonists need to survive), not absurdly expensive trinkets or gaudy advertisements on rockets (things that are merely "here and there" bonuses if/when someone out there is willing to pay for them).

I can justify increased head count to provide engineering and maintenance support services in the form of someone who remotely provides expert guidance to a colonist to maintain a life support system or rocket engine, for example, but I can't justify putting someone on Mars to make watches or collect rocks for rich people.  Some of that stuff will inevitably happen and I'm not against it at all, but only after the basic necessities of life have been taken care of.  Our starting point on Mars must take us from nothing at all to a self-sustaining society, which means all the fundamentals that technologically advanced human civilization here on Earth requires are still required on Mars.  If we could put a million people on Mars, then I can see employing around 15 million people to keep everyone supplied / supported.  We would also have to create the education / health care / transportation support to support the maintainers.  If the US, EU, and Asia all did this, then I can see how we could guarantee the employment of at least a quarter of a billion in high-technology jobs with middle class salaries and benefits.

We're going to build a supply chain of maintainable, rather than replaceable parts, from Earth-to-Mars, using the military's system for maintenance / support of technologically advanced equipment.  The military keeps sophisticated equipment operating for decades through continual disassembly, inspection, re-machining or cleaning, and re-assembly of parts.  Some spares are required, but more often than not, complicated machines have their parts maintained rather than completely replaced.  Overhaul maintenance is a different proposition, as SpaceNut is aware, and a significant number of parts must be replaced at that time.  We'll have to figure out how to do that remotely.  In any case, the military's maintenance and supply system has proven itself capable of sustaining a forward deployed force for many decades now.  Mars is clearly an extreme case where the force in question has been forward deployed to another planet.

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#33 2020-07-19 09:57:53

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 470

Re: Technology needed for Mars

A high breeding ratio, fast breeder reactor.  Mars appears to have a poor abundance of fissile fuels.  However, a fast breeder reactor yields so much energy from such a small amount of fuel, that it hardly matters.  I would propose a gas-cooled fast reactor, with an S-CO2 direct cycle.  The reasons are:

1. A harder neutron spectrum than a sodium cooled FBR, resulting in a shorter doubling time.  For a sodium FBR, doubling time is typically 30 years.  For a fast growing Martian colony, we would want to get that down to a decade of possible.
2. Direct cycle means no bulky heat exchanges.
3. The S-CO2 power generation equipment is very compact. When combined with a high power density core and a direct cycle, this allows very high system power density.
4. CO2 is non-corrosive, so all parts of the system (minus perhaps the fuel) can be made from low carbon steel, with a pre-stressed concrete pressure vessel.
5. A relatively low temperature cycle might be compatible with metallic fuel, that is suitable for electro-refining.
6. A high temperature cycle could drive thermochemical hydrogen production through the sulfur cycle.  This would be the basis of synthetic fuel production, plastics and a Martian steel industry.

This probably wouldn't be the first reactor built on Mars.  We would probably start with light water reactors burning enriched uranium.  But as base power requirements grow and the spent fuel accumulates, we would eventually have enough plutonium to start an FBR programme.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-07-19 10:03:48)


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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