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#76 2019-09-30 07:34:44

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

For SpaceNut re "Slow Glass"

Thanks again for your follow up on my vague recollection of "slow glass" from a science fiction story.

It is possible to begin to evaluate the idea as part of the realization of living environments as proposed for My Hacienda on Devon Island (or comparable site).

What occurred to me this morning, as I looked out at the scene following last night's heavy rain in this area, that workers could be provided data feeds from their home area, for display in their LED "window".  The cost would be low.  I'd expect data collected for a 24 (Earth) hour period would be compressed as much as possible before transmission to the recipient location.   The availability of personalized data feeds would (presumably) lead to social interaction, as the quality of individual feeds becomes recognized by other members of the community.

For RobertDyck re permafrost .... thanks for pursuing this important branch of the knowledge base needed for success of the venture proposed by this topic.

At this point, it is just a hunch on my part, but I'm guessing the Russians have solved this problem, if reports of their far Northern defense installations are correct.

So I went to Mr. Google and found ** this **:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016 … lsk-russia

I was taken aback by the intensity of the problem of thawing permafrost reported in this piece.  Several of the points you had made earlier in this topic, about conditions in Canada, were present in this report, including failed buildings in great numbers, and the use of air gap beneath buildings.

However, I saw nothing about the defense installations (which may be under the surface).  My guess here is that the defense establishment would have studied the civilian failures and planned to deal with the problem.

One hint I did pick up was that beneath the heaving layer of permafrost there exists a layer of frozen material, where (I gather) it is possible to set poles that reach to the surface for stable support.

For RobertDyck and SpaceNut re nuclear power ...

It seems to me that nothing is going to happen until the people directly involved are presented an opportunity to weigh in on the question.

Canada (as reported earlier in this topic) most CERTAINLY does have the capability to build nuclear fission reactors in great numbers and in any size needed, and to secure them properly. 

The opportunities for the nuclear fission industry in Canada, and for the inuit (and other native) peoples have been described.

However, I doubt very much that anyone in the native communities is going to think of this alternate future by themselves.

It takes the unusual intellectual environment of the NewMars forum for such ideas to surface, let alone receive serious consideration.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-09-30 14:51:22)

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#77 2019-09-30 13:54:29

RobertDyck
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Ok, you want to invent the Shipstone. The book "Friday" written by Robert A. Heinlein in 1982 described something called a "Shipstone". It was a sealed, self-contained power source. No description how it works, in fact the book claims the manufacturer was extremely careful to keep it proprietary ie secret. It was supposed to come in various sizes: power an ocean freighter ship, house, or even a small power tool like a drill. No description how it worked; it's easy to do that in a book, just say it works and don't say how. A "Shipstone" was supposed to last a person's lifetime. Owner/founder of the company that made them was supposed to have the surname "Shipstone". Some people have speculated how this could work. Russia developed a small nuclear reactor designed to power a single lighthouse, and operate in the arctic.
Abandoned Russian Polar Nuclear Lighthouses
Wikipedia: Beta-M the Soviet era RTG used to power lighthouses.

In the book "Foundation" by Isaac Asimov, a future civilization embraced nuclear technology. Even developing a small nuclear power source that could be worn. He described a personal force field "shield" that looked like a string of beads with one large "bead" that contained the nuclear power source. Again, the author didn't describe details how it worked, instead the story focused on how it was used.

This reminded me of an article about potassium-40. The article claimed a modulated strong magnetic field could stimulate potassium-40 to decay much more rapidly. Potassium-40 naturally undergoes beta decay (89.28% of the time), with maximum energy of 1.31 MeV. Researchers have developed a beta-voltaic cell that works like a photovoltaic cell (solar cell) but the beta- version uses beta radiation as its energy source. Beta radiation at that energy contained by 2.4mm of aluminum or 0.48mm of lead; this is a safe energy source. Naturally potassium-40 has such a long half-life, has such a low level of radioactivity, that it isn't even regulated. Claims about stimulated decay have been questioned. It would be useful if it works.

If stimulated decay does work, it may do so by electron capture. That means the magnetic field causes an electron to crash into the nucleus. Naturally this happens 10.72% of the time. That would combine a proton with an electron becoming a neutron. That would turn potassium-40 into argon-40. Almost all naturally occurring argon is Ar-40, specifically 99.6003% by atom abundance. Natural EC directly to the ground state is rare (0.04%), more common is indirect capture, which releases a gamma ray with 1.46 MeV. The following talks about Gamma Absorption. For that energy, the chart shows absorption at 2 cm²/g of lead. That works out to 0.44mm thickness, so 0.48mm thickness would absorb both beta and gamma. We have become used to avoiding lead for radiation shielding because of the problem of heavy ion GCR breaking up, but for gamma rays, lead is ideal. Absorbing gamma would produce heat. If we abandon beta-voltaic technology, absorbing beta in lead would also produce heat. So a heat source for an RTG?

Both calcium-40 and argon-40 are naturally occurring and non-radioactive.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-09-30 14:37:50)

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#78 2019-09-30 14:36:01

RobertDyck
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Someone has already registered the name Shipstone. They manufacture solar arrays, compressed gas energy storage, and lithium-ion battery storage for small remote communities, focusing on Canadian First Nations communities. Are these guys reading our forum?

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#79 2019-09-30 17:20:35

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Very much different for the company being green.

The issue with the natural light greenhouse is the astronaut farmer.

The idea of a safe nuclear for an individual I would think has the issue of size and mass for making it that small..so for me the kilowatt units nasa is making should be perfect once they are mass produced.

I found this off grid solar for the university quite interesting but for a mars without a dome for the crews to enjoy will need to wait.
https://gosunbolt.com/
CAMPUS-XL-cutout_MovedUp.png

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#80 2019-09-30 17:53:36

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Typical stuff and what we will need to power them

  • Rooms: Devices: Rated power [W]: Real consumption [W]:
    1. Living Room:
    video projector 288 140
    laptop 90 40
    amplifier 140 30
    light 1 10 9
    light 2 10 9
    2. Kitchen: oven 2200 1700
    kettle 2200 2105
    microwave 2300 1260
    toaster 1000 899
    refrigerator+freezer 70 70
    light 1 8 8
    light 2 15 14
    vacuum cleaner 1200 1015
    3. room1: laptop 72 40
    light 10 10
    4. room2: clockradio 3 3
    laptop 90 40
    light 1 25 23
    5. bathroom: light 1 10 10
    Fan 7 7
    washing machine 260 260
    TOTAL: 10008 7692

Sure we may not have some of these on mars but we will need others such as ventilation circulation as co and co2 will tend to hover around the person that is not moving about...all of the table are living environment and not so much dealing with the life support.

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#81 2019-10-01 06:20:43

tahanson43206
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

For SpaceNut re #80

Thanks for this helpful starting list.  I'd like to offer a suggestion for the vacuum cleaner.  Because of the conditions of a sealed environment, I'd like to suggest a "whole house" design, which would have optimized filtering capability to insure that material does not pass through the filter and back into the room in atomized form.

Since you are in the Devon Island topic, I think that every item in the list makes sense.  Plus, I would add a workshop to the list, since (I'm presuming) every Hacienda will be able to perform Level 1 maintenance for sure, and often Level 2 and even Level 3.  There would be some overlap there, because my expectation is that with 2750 Haciendas in place, and with suitable Division of Labor, there would be specialists able and willing to assist with maintenance above Level 1. 

(th)

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#82 2019-10-01 08:51:44

tahanson43206
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

For all regarding this topic ... Team Sports in Canada

I was inspired by the thought that Canadian members of this forum might (not guaranteed, of course) have an interest in sports that might also be of interest in a (proposed) 2750 plot community on Devon Island (or equivalent Northern location).

Mr. Google came up with this:

Sports in Canada - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Sports_in_Canada
Sports in Canada consist of a wide variety of games. The most common sports are ice hockey, lacrosse, gridiron football, soccer, basketball, curling and baseball, with ice hockey and lacrosse being the official summer and winter sports, respectively.
Governance · National sports · Team sports · Individual sports

Translating these results to the Mars simulation, I see a need for a huge, vaulted enclosed space ala Louis in his expansive moments, or void on an ordinary day.

However, smaller vaulted spaces might work for some of the sports listed, and the audience could be (would be) participating by video feed.  The all-important sound of fan response is quite possible in this scenario, if audio feedback is provided from each observing space to the vaulted arena.  Visual feedback is also possible, as suggested by the use of smartphone lights to send simultaneous mass signals at large events.

For RobertDyck ... out of curiosity, and if you are willing, which (if any) of these sports do you follow?

I am open to all of them, but tend to stay with baseball (#1) football (#2) basketball (3A) and soccer (3B)

No doubt there are non-team sports (such as tennis, boxing, dancing-as-a-sport, racket ball) that might be of interest to a Canadian, and suitable for consideration for the My Hacienda community.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-10-01 08:52:41)

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#83 2019-10-01 09:33:00

tahanson43206
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

For RobertDyck re topic in general ...

With a nod to SpaceNut re the topic Poverty in America ... The proposed development would provide high level employment for qualifying applicants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Alamos,_New_Mexico

In thinking about precedent for the proposal to build My Hacienda as a simulation at Devon Island (or suitable equivalent) I wonder (again) about cities built from scratch on Earth by design, and not just organically evolving along trade routes.

While Brasilia is a well known example of a city built by design, and ( I understand ) there may be others in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern locations, the city of Los Alamos is particularly suitable as a model for what I have in mind as a starting point for planning.

The City was literally build from scratch on ranch land with a very small population, many of whom were not year-round residents.

It remains today as a member of the first tier communities in the United States, with a steady population of about 12,000 people.

My Hacienda simulation on Devon Island (or equivalent alternative) would span 2750 square kilometers (much larger than Los Alamos) and each square kilometer would be a hub of productive activity, since the intention is to create a totally self-sufficient community, able to live at the comfort level of a first tier city in 2019.  The key to the (anticipated) success of this venture is to completely do away with nickel-dime small scale thinking.

A project on this scale needs an investment on the order of (at least) $100,000,000 (Canadian) per plot, for a total investment on the order of 2750 times that. 

I am expecting that only 11% of the population will be persons with white skins.  That population level would reflect the population of people with white skins on the planet, and it would help to keep unpleasantness about skin color from interfering with the cooperative effort to built a  community reflective of the Earth as a whole.

I am inspired to this expectation by recent remarks which appeared in another topic in this forum.  The author of those remarks appeared to hold an opinion (or a set of opinions) which I believe are unlikely to survive the death of the author.  The generations of young humans who are coming along do not appear to sympathize with those views, and the My Hacienda project would (if implemented as proposed) demonstrate that a group of humans reflective of the entire population can achieve at the same (or even better) level as could be expected if the attempt were made by a single ethnic group.

(th)

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#84 2019-10-01 10:34:53

Terraformer
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Pfft. If you want to avoid racial and ethnic friction, you need a monoracial/monoethnic colony, not one that tries to reflect the current ratio of skin pigments on the planet (which, by the way, was a lot paler in the past, and will be darker in the future - why not aim for 1800 as the year?). Sure, multiculturalism has failed everywhere it's been tried, but maybe if we try it one more time we'll be able to change the rules and somehow come together over the non-shared values we don't hold in common?

I suspect I am a lot younger than you, anyway. Millennial or Zoomer, depending on where the line is drawn.

Banning people from joining a colonisation project because their skin culture would upset some arbitrary and constantly changing ratio is disgusting. Why should Britons be forbidden unless enough Nigerians sign up? I want no part in such a project.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#85 2019-10-01 11:44:16

RobertDyck
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

You asked which sports I follow. I don't. Did participate in hockey when I was in elementary school, but didn't continue. Don't watch any. I'm a nerd, not a jock.

Did speak before city council re the new arena, but that was about economy and taxes. Before the mayor at the time had been elected, when he was a councillor, he argued for renovation of the old arena. Architectural firm that designed the old arena proposed a renovation. Would have been much larger, better support for trucks to deliver stage etc for a concert, better road, parking, and transit, and most importantly half the cost. The new arena required substantially subsidies from all levels of government, that means my taxes. But the new arena was pushed through anyway; kick-backs suspected.

The government made lacrosse Canada's official sport. That was generations ago. I don't know anyone who even knows the rules. Any Canadian citizen will tell you our national sport is hockey.

I attend Keycon every May long weekend. It has run every year since 1984. Officially a science fiction convention, they also have fantasy and gaming. Call it a drinking party for nerds, about 600 people per year, slightly larger than a Mars Society convention. I give a talk about Mars and real space exploration every year.

There's also Central Canada Comic Con on Halloween weekend. The founder/owner is a friend. They're much bigger but it's not as intimate. Comic Con here fills the Conention Centre, 20,000 people each year. They bring in major actors. People attend in elaborate costumes, many teenage girls in skimpy outfits. smile Giant dealer's room, but I'm not interested in comics or toys. Did get to meet a few actors. One year I met the actresses who protrayed the Klingon sisters of Star Trek TNG, I was dressed in a Q outfit that could be mistaken for Picard. B'Etor flirted with me in character the same as she did with Picard. smile

To address your question, Winnipeg does have an arena and an NHL hockey team, a stadium and a CFL football team. We also have a baseball park, but the Goldeyes are such a minor league team you probably never heard of the league. Community baseball parks are being torn down, parents send their children to soccer, rarely baseball. Hockey is popular because Winnipeg has snow on the ground 5 months per year. Gotta do something outside. Tobogganing is also popular.

(Ps. More people attend Comic Con than a Jets hockey game and Blue Bombers football game combined.)

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-10-01 20:47:17)

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#86 2019-10-01 12:26:23

RobertDyck
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Winnipeg has cultural facilities for hoity-toity people: Royal Winnipeg Ballet, Centennial Concert Hall, Pantages Playhouse Theater (live theater), Royal Manitoba Theatre Centre, Warehouse Theatre, Winnipeg Art Gallery. There's also the Manitoba Museum with attached Planetarium and Science Centre. Guess which I'm interested in.

::Edit:: The Manitoba Opera performs at the Concert Hall, as does the Winnipeg Symphony Orchastra.

Occasionally I attend the Fringe Festival, which is an eclectic mix of live performances. They utilize every small venue downtown. And Folklorama, the world's largest multi-cultural festival. Folklorama has "pavilions" in community centres, cultural centres, one in a curling rink, etc. A typical pavilion offers food, drink, poster board display, and a regular show of music and dance in traditional ethnic costumes. All by amateur volunteers.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-10-02 06:35:16)

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#87 2019-10-01 16:10:39

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

tahanson43206, the energy use list does not have in its table the phamptom currents which is where we are will modern electronics stuff these days as off is not really off but in a reduced power condition. There would be many more items that a real station on mars would need to power beyond this simple list.
We still have not really gotten a fully sustainable mars station on the island which does need exist in its abilities to remain staffed all year long.

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#88 2019-10-01 17:30:00

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

We need to also remenber that the island is not the only game in town for doing the work needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Anal … on_Program

The first station, the Flashline Mars Arctic Research Station (FMARS), began operation in 2000 on Devon Island in the Canadian Arctic.

The second station, the Mars Desert Research Station (MDRS), began operation in 2002 in southern Utah.

Stations to be built in Europe (European Mars Analog Research Station / EuroMARS) and

Australia (Australia Mars Analog Research Station / MARS-Oz) have not progressed beyond the planning stages.

EuroMARS was planned for deployment in Iceland. A structure for EuroMARS was built, but placed in storage for several years due to lack of funding to ship to the Society's UK headquarters, and from there on to Iceland. During storage and shipping the structure was damaged beyond repair, so now the European chapters of the Mars Society are seeking funding to build a new habitat.

The fourth station, MARS-Oz, has been designed, but lacks funding for construction.

653991.grid-6x2.jpg
The tents of the Haughton-Mars Project and the Discovery Channel sprout up on a Marslike landscape in the Canadian Arctic. The rock formation has been dubbed "the Fortress."

Something that I have known for a while now is the water studies which indicated that we could go to mars with less and still be ok as compared to the Nasa developed numbers. The reason for not removing the greater level of water is the current level of recycling means that we are still needing the larger amount just not for the standard reasons.

Four-month Moon and Mars crew water utilization study conducted at the Flashline Mars Arctic Research Station, Devon Island, Nunavut
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~binsted/papers/ … RS_ASR.pdf

Now onto food and what we would want from the greenhouse...

  • List of main meals during the primary study phase.
    Date Lunch /dinner
    20-Jun Chicken noodle soup, bread/TVP burgers, carrots
    21-Jun Sauerkraut, beef jerky, leftovers/Spaghetti, tomato sauce
    22-Jun Scrambled eggs, rice/TVP spaghetti, homemade cheese, carrots
    23-Jun Porridge, bread/Routine, homemade cheese, bread and salami
    24-Jun Waffles, eggs/Chicken curry, couscous
    25-Jun Chicken curry, couscous/Turkey loaf, mashed potatoes, gravy
    26-Jun Omelet, spam/Macaroni and cheese, sprout salad
    27 Jun Macaroni with chicken/Pizza with the leftover macaroni
    28-Jun Macaroni with egg, soup/Egg noodles, chicken TVP, sprouts
    29-Jun Pea soup, macaroni noodles, leftovers/Sprouts, rice, chicken TVP
    30-Jun Macaroni with chicken, canned chili/Quinoa, spinach, chicken TVP

These must be the canned meats or freeze dried for use plus cubes of flavoring as these would need to be hactched just prior to landing other wise...they sure like chicken while the Hawian station cooks with Spam....

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#89 2019-10-01 19:33:31

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

I just posted this elsewhere but its possible that we might use some of these concepts to make power

There will be other roles for making power from many more sources once we begin to build there rather than taking them with us.

Mars has the possibility to make us of thermal up and down drafts to turn turbine blades made from low mass materials.

We may also be able to make a tidal pool for the small mars moons to make wave energy from as well. Make a long tank filled partially with water so that the pull of gravity will cause as the moon passes a wave will be caused.

I have recently given the numbers per panel in another topic as 127w up to 172w depending on the season for output. The low end means we need more panels to get the winter time much heavier load powers to keep growing food and heating.

I am wondering if a trench will be enough volume to make waves happen on earth....for a wave energy machine?
off to do reseach....

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#90 2019-10-01 20:32:42

RobertDyck
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

SpaceNut wrote:

I am wondering if a trench will be enough volume to make waves happen on earth....for a wave energy machine?
off to do reseach....

Gravity from moons causes tides. That would cause tides to go in and out. The moons of Mars are far too small to generate any energy from tides. If you want to generate energy on Earth, a trench would have to be extremely long, about a quarter the circumference of the Earth. However, Devon Island is an island, so there will be tides from ocean water. You would need a bay you could enclose with a dam, water would run in at high tide, out at low tide.

Waves are not caused by tides. Waves are caused by wind. Mars is too cold and atmosphere too low pressure for open water to remain liquid. Devon Island wouldn't need a trench, it's an island. You could set up a wave energy system in the water surrounding the island. It would only work in summer, waves won't form when water surface is frozen over.

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#91 2019-10-01 21:07:45

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Thanks RobertDyck for the reply..

A lot of good details but my computer is acting up so had to take it off line to create the post while you gave me something to think about for later but here is what I found.

clancy.1.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_power

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news … -concepts/
Five Striking Concepts for Harnessing the Sea's Power
Sea "snakes," special buoys, and mechanical carpets are aimed at making wave energy viable.

A serpentine power-generation device from Pelamis is set to be ... Scotland has some of the world's most promising wave and tidal energy resources and has led the ... In recent wave tank tests, it absorbed more than 90 percent

https://www.science.org.au/curious/tech … cean-power
Harnessing the power of the ocean

Tidal power technology harnesses the energy in the movement of the tides, which ... types of energy that can be derived from the ocean: wave and tidal energy. ... up a ramp to a water tank approximately 3-5 metres above sea level. ... Tidal flows have proven to be more reliable for energy generation

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca … ted-equal/

https://www.snopud.com/site/content/doc … primer.pdf
Primer: Power from Ocean Waves and Tides

We had thought that about the mars atmosphere as well but the comet that passed caused havic with the magnetic field of mars...

I think we can get energy but its not going to come easily from such sources...

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#92 2019-10-02 05:12:25

tahanson43206
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

For RobertDyck re #85 and #86

Thanks for your interesting replies!  Short on time but wanted to acknowledge here.

FYI ... I ran a search once, to see what might be the minimum reasonable size of a city able to sustain a world class opera house.  The number appears to be on the order of 300,000, but I'm betting that the entire population of a nation may supply top tier participants.  That implies to me that it will be a while before anything on that scale appears on Mars.

I ** also ** note that there are plenty of cities (in the US for sure) that exceed that size but do not have opera houses.  As you point out, opera is DEFINITELY an acquired taste << grin >>.

(th)

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#93 2019-10-02 16:37:11

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Opera is also an aquired taste...now the opery house is a different horse....I would image that in time we would have many types of musical events and types to listen to and maybe even our own movie production companies, news broadcasts and more....

As for mars wave tidal system its going to be in a chamber. A wave machine that uses the solar heat to raise and lower humps in the chamber that would allow for waves to be created seems possible.

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#94 2019-10-02 18:27:11

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

I happened across this earlier today while reading...
AAI7fF0.img?h=373&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=t&l=f&x=927&y=812

Igloo City – Cantwell, Alaska

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#95 2019-10-03 06:52:29

tahanson43206
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

For SpaceNut re #94 .... Awesome!  Thanks!

This is sculpture on a grand scale.  I hope someone decides to preserve it.  I find it inspiring, both in its physical presence, but in the manner of its creation.

For RobertDyck re #85 ...  You've given me a lot to work with in this post! Thanks!

I'd like to lead off with an appreciation of your encounter with the Klingon Sisters!  Bravo!  By purest coincidence, my local Star Trek Replay Channel had JUST broadcast that episode, and I happened to click right into the middle of it.

As time permits, I'm hoping to develop (for your consideration) a concept for building on the sports franchise model that exists on Earth in multiple countries as an approach to selling plots in the My Hacienda undertaking.

Each plot will be funded by someone with deep pockets with an interest in research to reveal investment opportunities in a community designed from the start to operate autonomously on Earth, or anywhere.

I expect that people of mars to be diverse so as to enjoy each other's company at entertainment establishments created to celebrate their shared history.

I am encouraging develop a plot for growing of bamboo and manufacture of (I hope high quality) paper.

You're going to need to recruit diversity of people for the project, and select people of great spirit for competing plot owners. 

I believe Dr. Zubrin set out to create a generic welcome for everyone. I am looking for My Hacienda on Devon Island (or equivalent location) to reflect the population of the planet as a whole, and will vigorously attempt to encourage that result.

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#96 2019-10-03 09:13:50

tahanson43206
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

This is primarily for RobertDyck, but comments by all are welcome ...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spacex-fan-v … 00175.html

Wagoner, who is now out of jail on bond, is an aspiring space technology entrepreneur that's drawing up plans for a Mars habitat analog in Iceland. He said he wants "a good relationship with SpaceX," and hopes the charge is dropped.

Is Iceland an equivalent site for My Hacienda/Sagan City (2018)?

Would the political climate be more favorable than exists in Canada?

(th)

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#97 2019-10-03 14:43:40

RobertDyck
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

Terraformer, my advice is to ignore such questions. You'll have a difficult time trying to convince people to invest $100 million per plot without obsessing over where they come from.

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#98 2019-10-03 17:24:13

SpaceNut
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Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

I have removed content and made edits to allow for us to not lose any more members....

Lets stay focused on how do we allow for the island to grow as Antartca has.

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#99 2019-10-04 19:46:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

I have seen designs that use the inward draft at the base of the chimney to create power not just the updraft from the solar heating effect.

solar_tower_03.gif

ave-chimney.png

lapaz_img1-550x301.jpg

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#100 2019-10-05 07:06:37

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,496

Re: Testing My Hacienda On Mars Society Devon Island

For SpaceNut re this topic, and the related Norway branch ...

In order for these initiatives to move forward, someone needs to make contact with the appropriate decision makers.  Please begin to think about (and perhaps publish) guidelines for those who will be contacting outside agencies (such as National Governments) on behalf of the NewMars forum of the Mars Society.

I would expect that Dr. Zubrin will be able to provide preferred protocol, since (ultimately) his good name will be reflected in correspondence.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-10-05 07:08:57)

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