USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

RobertDyck · 2003-04-22 11:19:56

Canada cuts a check for US$50 billion/year (the amount of the trade surplus with the US)

Why do you keep harping about a trade surplus? Any trade surplus means the U.S. has bought stuff from Canada. That means *IF* there really is a US$50 billion trade surplus, the U.S. has already received US$50 billion worth of stuff. Or more correctly, US$50 billion more stuff than the U.S. has provided to Canada. Canada is not going to just give away the money received for that stuff. However, money is good for nothing other than spending for more stuff (goods and/or services). That US$50 billion must either be spent, or traded to a 3rd country for their currency, which country will just spend it on American stuff. The alternative to this money coming back to America one way or another is an adjustment to the exchange rate, which instantly changes the amount of money one has on-hand. If the trade surplus does not filter through 3rd countries back to the U.S. then the excess of U.S. dollars in Canada will reduce the value of U.S. dollars with respect to Canadian dollars; which is the same as raising the Canadian dollar with respect to the U.S. dollar. The value of the Canadian dollar is already too low with respect to the U.S. dollar, so this is a good thing. You are claiming the trade surplus is caused by a low Canadian dollar, so this means the trade surplus will take care of itself.

There are a few things the Canadian government could do to make the exchange rate more sensitive to trade imbalances, and increase the value of the Canadian dollar. Right now Canadian companies are permitted to issue securities directly in U.S. dollars; that could be prohibited to force Canadian companies to issue securities (bonds, etc.) only in Canadian dollars. That would increase the demand for Canadian dollars, increasing the value of the Canadian dollar. Doing so would make some financiers scream; they want to sell primarily to American customers and forcing an exchange to Canadian dollars would be inconvenient for some of those customers. I feel this shows gross insecurity in the Canadian market place, but changing this means fighting big business.

But the bottom line is that noone is going to cut anyone a check for a trade surplus.

Bill White · 2003-04-22 11:32:40

How about this? Canada cuts a check for US$50 billion/year (the amount of the trade surplus with the US) and sends it to NASA to fund mars exploration? The current NASA budget is $15 bln, so the extra $50 bln will be quite an amazing injection of cash.

Heh! I guess this is how we US-ians have gotten so rich.

First we buy $50 billion worth of timber, or bacon, or hockey sticks, or maple syrup from Canada and then we whine about the trade imbalance and ask for our $50 billion back. That way we get to keep all the Canadian stuff we bought then we use political clout to take back all the money we paid for this Canadian stuff.

Sweet! If they fall for it. . .

tim_perdue · 2003-04-22 11:50:38

Doing so would make some financiers scream; they want to sell primarily to American customers and forcing an exchange to Canadian dollars would be inconvenient for some of those customers. I feel this shows gross insecurity in the Canadian market place, but changing this means fighting big business.

Uh oh, I think this might derail the space-orientation this thread was moving into.

Anyway, yes, those companies are going to fight anything that would decrease their sales. This isn't "inconvenient" as you put it, it's bad for their bottom lines, as they benefit from the artificially cheap currency and huge trade surplus.

But the bottom line is that noone is going to cut anyone a check for a trade surplus.

Geez relax. I suspect 99% of the stuff discussed on these forums is never going to happen.

First we buy $50 billion worth of timber, or bacon, or hockey sticks, or maple syrup from Canada and then we whine about the trade imbalance and ask for our $50 billion back

You forgot "Canada Dry" in your list, which is surely canada's largest export if my family is any indicator.

It's not 100% trade deficit, it's more like 6-8%. So you have to have about $700+ bln in bilateral trade to get the $50 bln deficit.

Earthfirst · 2003-04-24 21:49:23

I speak American, I am proud to be American and I do not consider myself to be a citizen of the world. How can you be an citizen off the world? To my knowleged their is no United states of the Earth that exist. You might say while theirs the UN, and I say you proble get shoot by some two bit dictator. Just look at the inaction of the UN to stop Irag from bluilding weapons of mass destiction. I might change my mind in the USA chang it name to the USE. America is so great and powerful we proble should, we could easly conquired the thrid world, in a mater of mounths. The reason why Canadians fell that they are part of the world than Americans do is that their country is so weak. America should of just anxety canada years ago. Its not like they would of fought back. Probly the only americans that fell that they are a citizen of the world are those poeple that live in the socistic commusit republic of northern California"aka Berkely, and San Fransico". I think if they think it so bad here why dont they move to Canada A, or maybe France.
When I say I am a American I dont refir to the rest of north America or south America, The USA is the only country that uses America in its name and is the only one clutly domite enough for it citizeen to ignor the rest of the world. As far as I care the rest of the world revoles around us The USA. That what makes Europeans so mad, no country in Europe is large engouh or powerful to be called Europe. That why they formed the EU. To compete with America culturly and econmically. I dont care about the Chinease billions of people of them big deal nothing a few hyroden bombs and orbital space cannons would not fix.
Any ways that how I feel, Kissing the feet of foriners is no way to make freind, they should come crawling on there feet to be so onrder to be in the presance of American!!!
As the great profit Kidd Rock once said "Iam a Cowboy baby
For ever"
Telos Roma Rho Androma
Lepitus Corrdum Major
My Legions!!!!

tim_perdue · 2003-04-25 08:50:33

EarthFirst and BGD - like I said from the start - the vast majority of people are pretty ignorant, as has been confirmed here.

MarsGuy2012 · 2003-04-25 09:06:57

I'm an American, but I'm not proud to be an American. What did I do? I just had the luck to be born here. I am GREATFUL to be an American, but not proud.

Now who should be proud to be American? How about people that have actually done something to create America or people that have done something to get here? These are the people who can be proud:

Immigrants who have suffered hardship to come here.
Those that fought in the Revolutionary War.
Civil rights activists.
Womens suffrage activists.
Abolishonists.

This is the kind of people that can be proud. But are/were they proud? I don't think so. I would bet they were humble.

Earthfirst · 2003-04-25 11:22:31

Howddy yahall greetings from the redneck capital of the world Arizona!!! :laugh: Really if you dont belive then chech out a movie called raising Arizona, the movie got it just right. Arizona is filled with gun toting moonshing cowboys, drunk indians, various kinds of hispanic people mostly mexicans, I wont use the world commonly used word to describe them though. "I ant a racist"and a few other people not in great numbers. One has to wonders how they got are actsent down so well we only talk that ways around other fellow native Arizonas. Heck I anits gots no ideas how you dang people can be so judgmental. Just because I may writes like I gots no school lreanings, in fact I made it all the way though the 8th grade. I be du first one in the state to lrean to read write. Not to mention couting up to 20 with out taking off my shoes. I gots a acdemic adward from the governer for that one, problem being no one in the state government could read and write so I gots blank peice of papper. As a proud graduwait of the Arizona state school system. I would like to Thank governer Janet Napolitono for all she has done to united the state of Arizona together in the fight to stop ignornace in our state. Thanks to her Arizona is now Nuber one in red light runiing, car theft, alchohalism among indians, and alian sightings!!!!!!!
"Get Real" I really finshed high school with a 3.5 gpa and now attending a universty in Phoenix, I am not stupid in fact I made it all the way to the state Geograph Bee but lossed out to some home school kid, I would of like to seen him test on some other subject, its real easy just to stiudy really hard one subject, its hard to study many sucject at onces.
Its just like you liberal degenrits to prejudge some one because they dont live in San Fransico or New York, if those city are so great why are they dumps then? Why are pople moving in the thousand to Arizona from California and New York? because Arizona is not a dump of ignorance like those other states are. For all the people that look at those pretty mars pictures from NASA, if you look closely they were made at Arizona state Universty, and UofA. not at berkly or cal tech. Tim-perdue since you are so edumacated can you name the state capital of Arizona or the highest point in the state or the state brid. Or how many acres of forest the state has, or how many people the state has. I also know the hisghest point in California and lowest point too. Can you name them?Crouse not your ignorant and prejudgest, I am not the racist you are tim-perdue.
FYI anexting Canada would not invole a war they would just become apart of the USA. If you rember your history which you probly dont because your ignorant the USA anexity the REPUBLIC OF TEXAS with out firing a shot, the same with Hawaii. With Mexico we did invade and took Mexico city but after the war we left and paid money for repreation for the land we won. Was that not a nice then to do most countrys would not of paid money to the loser of a war. Example after www 1 Germany the loser had to pay the stuck up French and England the winners money. Which caused a depression in germany and led to the raise of the nazis, thank you france for being so fair and bring in to exsitence any insane dictotor. In my veiw the french got what they desiver, when Germany invaded and took pairs. Isn't amazing how things can come full circle!!! ???
"WANNA BE A COWBOY BABY, FORE EVER" Kid Rock
DONT GIVE THE PEOPLE THE STATIFACTION OF WALKING ALL OVER YOU GIVE IT BACK TEN TIMES AS HARD."
DARIN THE GREAT OF PHOENICA 2003 AD

clark · 2003-04-25 11:50:48

Everyone feel better now?

:laugh:

RobertDyck · 2003-04-25 14:04:17

Um, please don't talk about annexing Canada. First, Texas was not annexed without firing a shot. Do you remember the Alamo? Second, America did attempt to annex Canada by military force; it was called the war of 1812. Canada won. At that time Brittan was Canada's ally (actually Canada was still a colony) and Brittan was still sore that America declared independence. Both Brittan and America thought Canadian forces were amateurs, and America developed effective tactics against British forces. Brits tended to line-up in nice neat rows with bright red coats, making easy targets for American forces that made effective use of cover. America was surprised to find Canadian forces fought effectively and with the exact same tactics as the Americans. In fact, when American soldiers faced Canadian soldiers they might as well be facing themselves. American forces at that time were used to fighting British armies with European conscripts who didn't want to be there and had no clue of North American terrain. When American forces invaded Canada, the Canadian forces had the home-ground advantage and the Canadians were defending their homes; that was enough to let Canadian forces win while British forces counter attacked on American soil. Did you hear about the battle of Quebec City? American general Benedict Arnold led an army to capture that city, but got lost. They ran out of food and started literally eating their boots before they found the city. When they did invade several soldiers had starved to death, and they invaded during a blizzard. They lost and surviving forces were captured.

When the USA declared independence, not all citizens wanted to separate from Brittan. Those loyalists emigrated to Canada. In fact, the population of Ontario more than doubled, and the then province of Nova Scotia had to be split to create the new province of New Brunswick because so many American refugees had settled there. Canada considers America to be a good friend and ally, but does not want to join. Canadian national pride may not be demonstrated very obviously. At a sports game when they sing the national anthem most people think it?s a good time to go to the concessions for a hot dog or beer. However, remember the World Series game in Toronto when an American marine flew Canada?s flag up-side-down? Canadians got irate about that, especially those from Ontario. The following game many bought little American flags mounted up-side-down. Many called for the game organizers to raise America?s flag up-side-down in retaliation; but the organizers know you don?t do that to an American. The event did die down; then U.S. president George Bush, Sr. apologized on television and the marine was sent on Canadian talk shows to apologize to all of Canada. This shows Canadians take Canada for granted as long as no foreigner demonstrates contempt; but don?t piss them off.

So is Canada really that different from America? Can we all be friends now?

tim_perdue · 2003-04-25 14:32:59

Second, America did attempt to annex Canada by military force; it was called the war of 1812. Canada won.

Sounds like you're issuing a challenge. With all the oil and gas up there, plus the hostile government, Rummy and Wolfowitz might take you up on it.

Of course, we merely want to militarily "protect" all those oil/gas wells so the Chretien Regime doesn't attempt to burn them and harm the environment.

Canada considers America to be a good friend and ally, but does not want to join. Canadian national pride may not be demonstrated very obviously.

Didn't Canada almost implode in 1994? I think Quebec was going to secede or something. I barely paid attention, but I remember it being talked about as a fairly serious crisis.

Bill White · 2003-04-25 14:38:59

Last May, my family and I went to Stratford Ontario for the Shakespeare festival. While we were at a local bookstore my 8 year old daughter found a series of books called, I believe, "Dear Canada"

This was interesting to me because she had already been collecting "Dear America" books which are written as if the author was a young girl aged 10, 11 or 12 and living at various key points in history. School age historical fiction.

Anyway - the first "Dear Canada" book I glanced at was about a Tory family and their 10 year daughter having to flee the rabid mobs in Boston in 1776. They moved to Ontario and became Canadian. As a Yank, I was startled at first, yet it all makes sense. After a moment's reflection, I found I could have no real objectoin

Out of prudence, however, we selected a "Dear Canada" volume about a family moving to the Canadian Great Plains in the 1880s. Less controversial for a book report in my daughter's US grade school.

clark · 2003-04-25 14:43:38

I remember listening to a report about the different perspectives of African's who fled to Canada (from the US) or imigrated to Canada, versus that of African American's. The experience of African-Candaian's seemed to be much improved over their southern counterparts (even those found in the Northern US states).

And I suggest we stop all this war talk about Canada, the War of 1812 ended up with our White House burnt to the ground...

Earthfirst · 2003-04-28 10:55:57

If you paid attention in history class a little better, instead of staring at the cheerleaders in their pompom out fits. You would remeber that Texas was Annexit because they wanted to be begging the then US congress to be annexed. The reason why they wanted to be annexed was that Santa Anna was raising a huge army in Mexico to destory the Republic of Texas. Because Mexico still considered Texas to be still be a part of Mexico, and the matter to be an internal affiar. Remember Mexico has alwise had rival faction rebal groups claiming to be the ruling government, running around in the hills with guns stealing and killing. How many civil wars has Mexico had a lot is the answer.
But the USA considered the Republic of Texas to be an independant country, so did many European powers at the time. Certianly the Texains considered them self to be Texains not Mexicans. So when the US saw a chang to annexe a country and gain a lot of territory they toke it. It also help that most Texains were orginal from the US and most of the mexicans realy heated Santa anna and mexico. So texas wanted to be annexe and was.
The Alamo happen in the war of Texas independance and was commited by Mexico not the US, the US played no active offical role in that war. The war crimes of the Alamo and the Goalad were commited by Santa Anna and in my veiw should of been charge with war crimes and exicuted!!!! At the goalad Santa Anna exicuted 300 unarmed texan freedom fighters, and at the Alamo 800 freedom fighters. But Texaans got their revenge at the battle of Sanshanto were out numbered out guned force won. Crying rember the Alamo as they killed thousands of Mexicans as they retreded the cowards!!! General Santa Anna was caught trying to esacpe in a dress from one of his many love slaves. Santa Anna then signed a treaty givening the Republic of Texas its independance from Mexico ending the Texas revulotionary war. At the battle site the Texans built a new city for their great general Sam Houston, those the city of houston was created. At the city hreat is a great monument in memory of the great battle, and remberance of the massicured Texan freemdom fightors. So that no texan would forget the great scarfaces of the war, and the crimes of the War Crimnal Santa Anna may he burn in hell for all time.
The US played no part, it was mexico that commited the war crimes!!!!!
After Texas was Annexe and became part of the US mexico decided to invaded and kill some US troops along the rio grand near Brownville Texas, that the Mexian American war got started. Mexico paid a high price losing it northern Territorys and having its capital Mexico city occuped by US armys, they should considder them selfs lucky that we just dint keep Mexico for are selfs. Thats what you get when you invade America!! The Texan War of independance happen back in the 1830s and the Mexican American war happened in 1845. So The Texas Republic existed as a indendent country for for 10 years, as a independant country Texas had every right to be Annexe by the Us because Texas wanted to. America had no hostilties towards Texas, for Texas it was short of going back home to there old country the US.
Your wrong maybe you should of brushed up on your history before you mouth of about history. At least you got some of the canadian part right but thats not the compelet history!!!!
Never diss about Texas to a cowboy!

dicktice · 2003-05-08 16:11:07

To all of you (above), the following "Letter to America" [abridged by me] from our respected--sometimes speculative fiction author--Margaret Atwood, may explain....

"Dear America: This is a difficult letter to write, because I'm no longer sure who you are. Some of you may be having the same trouble. I thought I knew you ... We've always been close, you and us. History, that old entangler, has twisted us together since the early 17th century. Some of us used to be you; some of us want to be you; some of you used to be us. Your are not only our neighbours: In many cases--mine, for instance--you are also our blood relations, our colleagues, and our personal friends. But although we've had a ringside seat, we've never understood you completely, up here north of the 49th parallel.
"We're like Romanized Gauls--look like Romans, dress like Romans, but aren't Romans--peering over the wall at the real Romans. What are they doing? Why? What are they doing now? ...
"Perhaps that's been my difficulty in writing you this letter: I'm not sure I know what's really going on. Anyway, you have a huge posse of experienced entrail-sifters who do nothing but analyze your every vein and lobe. What can I tell you about yourself that you don't already know? ... But I'll take the plunge, because your business is no longer merely your business. To paraphrase Marley's Ghost, who figured it out too late, mankind is your business. And vice versa: When the Jolly Green Giant goes on the rampage, many lesser plants and animals get trampled underfoot. As for us, you're the biggest trading partner: We know perfectly well that if you go down the plug-hole, we're going with you. We have every reason to wish you well.
"I won't go into the reasons why I think your recent Iraqi adventures have been--taking the long view--an ill-advised tactical error. ... Let's talk, then, not about what you're doing to other people, but about what you're doing to yourselves.
"You're gutting the Constitution. Already your home can be entered without your knowledge or permission, you can be snatched away and incarcerated without cause, your mail can be spied on, your private records searched. Why isn't this a recipe for widespread business theft, political intimidation, and fraud? I know you've been told all this is for your own safety and protection, but think about it for a minute. Anyway, when did you get so scared? You didn't used to be easily frightened.
"You're running up a record level of debt. Keep spending at this rate and pretty soon you won't be able to afford any big military adventures. Either that or you'll go the way of the USSR: lots of tanks, but no air conditioning. That will make folks very cross. They'll be even crosser when they can't take a shower because your short-sighted bulldozing of environmental protections has dirtied most of the water and dried up the rest. Then things will get hot and dirty indeed.
"You're torching the American economy. How soon before the answer to that will be, not to produce anything yourselves, but to grab stuff other people produce, at gunboat-diplomacy prices? Is the world going to consist of a few mega-rich King Midases, with the rest being serfs, both inside and outside your country? Will the biggest business sector in the United States be the prison system? Let's hope not.
"If you proceed much further down the slippery slope, people around the world will stop admiring the good things about you. They'll decide that your city upon the hill is a slum and your democracy is a sham, and therefore you have no business trying to impose your sullied vision on them. They'll think you've abandoned the rule of law. They'll think you've fouled your own nest.
"The British used to have a myth about King Arthur. He wasn't dead, but sleeping in a cave, it was said; in the country's hour of greatest peril, he would return. You, too, have great spirits of the past you may call upon: men and women of courage, of conscience, of prescience. Summon them now, to stand with you, to inspire you, to defend the best in you. You need them."

dicktice · 2003-05-12 15:52:49

Gee, folks ... I didn't mean to discourage any replies by quoting Margaret Atwoods "Letter to America." I meant to stimulate discussion regarding possible prohibition (for the purposes of national security by the U.S.) of private access to LEO, and what all that implies for us space-buffs. Maybe it's too heavy....I'll consider deleting it, if no one objects, next time.

Palomar · 2003-05-12 16:46:38

Gee, folks ... I didn't mean to discourage any replies by quoting Margaret Atwoods "Letter to America." I meant to stimulate discussion regarding possible prohibition (for the purposes of national security by the U.S.) of private access to LEO, and what all that implies for us space-buffs. Maybe it's too heavy....I'll consider deleting it, if no one objects, next time.

*No, please -don't- delete it. I didn't see it posted by you until right now (I haven't been visiting the message boards every day, lately).

I want to read it again, more carefully, and may respond.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-05-12 17:14:51

To all of you (above), the following "Letter to America" [abridged by me] from our respected--sometimes speculative fiction author--Margaret Atwood, may explain....
"Dear America: This is a difficult letter to write, because I'm no longer sure who you are. Some of you may be having the same trouble..."

*Well, what can I say? I agree with her; I definitely understand where she's coming from and see her points of view.

The fellow U.S. citizens who concern me the most are the ones participating at Yahoo! message boards who come off with a "F*CK THE WORLD!" and "KISS AMERICA'S A**!!" attitude...and they are not all trolls. And there are a lot of them. Many of them are consistent in what they say, quote published sources, etc.; this is why I believe many of them aren't trolls. Their attitude is "if you're not U.S. you're not right," and they damn any U.S. citizen as a traitor or worse for not agreeing with them. This sentiment ::seems:: to be growing in the U.S., based on what I read and hear.

The conservative right-wingers concern me greatly. Of course, there are extremists in every camp. But many of them, IMO, have a very real, very rabid power-over mentality, i.e. "Lick Our Boots Or We'll Stomp You Into the Ground!" They are un-American, so far as I'm concerned. They're also the first ones to rake "liberals" over the coals (liberals are anyone and everyone who don't agree with them lock, stock and barrel), but seem to have strangely overlooked the fact that the words liberty and liberal are derived from the same root, all while proclaiming THEY are the safekeepers of liberty.

It's a mess.

--Cindy

tim_perdue · 2003-05-13 06:51:08

Gee, folks ... I didn't mean to discourage any replies by quoting Margaret Atwoods "Letter to America."

Dick, I thought it was a nice post, although it had the usual factual errors that uninformed people usually propagate.

For example, Canada is far more indebted than the US is, despite all the "free lunch" and huge trade surplus I've mentioned. ( http://www.mof.go.jp/english/budget/pamphlet/cjfc_g.htm ) This makes her comment about enormous debts nothing short of rank hypocrisy. Most Europeans are also programmed with this same misinformation.

We should all be very concerned about erosion of civil liberties. I, for one, have sent generous checks to ACLU and EFF as they are valuable checks on government encroachment.

At the same time, we should have some perspective and realize that Bush's attack on liberties is mild compared to the Vietnam war or WWII. Most European countries have far more intrusive anti-terror laws than the US, as Europeans have lived with terror for decades. And if Bush fails to prevent another terror attack, he'll be blamed for that.

It's a balancing act that we should all pay close attention to.

clark · 2003-05-13 07:34:23

At the same time, we should have some perspective and realize that Bush's attack on liberties is mild compared to the Vietnam war or WWII.

I never knew there was such a thing as a 'mild' attack on our personal liberty.

Most European countries have far more intrusive anti-terror laws than the US, as Europeans have lived with terror for decades.

So it would seem that anti-terror laws are effective then. Afterall, the Europeans continue to live day in and day out with terror, even after decades...

We have sold our personal liberty to a spectar. Our leaders have declared that monsters exsist under our beds, and so for the good of all, we must pull the blankets over our heads and wait until the moment, whenever that may be, that we may stick our heads out from beneath the sheets.

And if Bush fails to prevent another terror attack, he'll be blamed for that.

Because detaining people indefinitely protects us all?
Becuase assaination is a tool of statesmen?
Becuase knowing who checked out what from a public library is important to protecting individuals saftey?
Becuase the government needs the ability to violate our privacy without judicial oversight or public accountability?

Becuase we can trust our elected officals and their personal appointee's to do the correct thing, and not abuse their position or use their influence for personal gain...

There is no such thing as a mild attack on liberty. How can you say we should be concerned about the erosion of our civil liberties, yet also follow up with that we shouldn't be "too worried" because it is only a 'mild' erosion?

Today, we are less free than we once were. Is that progress?

Palomar · 2003-05-13 07:41:07

And if Bush fails to prevent another terror attack, he'll be blamed for that.

*No, it's Clinton's fault. Just ask the right-wingers. Everything that's ever gone wrong in the entire scope of human history *From Day One* is Bill Clinton's fault. Period.

King George the W can do no wrong whatsoever.

Oh, and by the way: Clinton's carousing with cheap gals while he was President was more of national security issue than anything that's happened since 1/2000. Yep.

--Cindy

P.S.: On a more serious note, I know of one ex-hippie 60-year-old artist in Oregon who, along with his political pals, believes the Bush Administration knew in advance about the plans for 9/11 and -allowed- it to happen so the situation could play into the administration's hands (read: Iraqi Oil).

tim_perdue · 2003-05-13 08:53:47

There is no such thing as a mild attack on liberty. How can you say we should be concerned about the erosion of our civil liberties, yet also follow up with that we shouldn't be "too worried" because it is only a 'mild' erosion?
Today, we are less free than we once were. Is that progress?

So the question is, what are you doing except ranting about it? Have you sent cash or volunteered time for any of the numerous organizations that provide a check against government expansion? I certainly have.

clark · 2003-05-13 09:00:04

So the question is, what are you doing except ranting about it?

What is this, an old fashioned pissing contest?

I applaude you for your personal commitment Tim, you are a beacon of a model citizen.

However, I place more faith, to my usual disappointment, in the process by which leaders are chosen. But perhaps the courts are a better place from which to defend our liberties.

Afterall, they choose presidents now...

tim_perdue · 2003-05-13 09:09:54

*No, it's Clinton's fault. Just ask the right-wingers. Everything that's ever gone wrong in the entire scope of human history *From Day One* is Bill Clinton's fault. Period.
King George the W can do no wrong whatsoever.
Oh, and by the way: Clinton's carousing with cheap gals while he was President was more of national security issue than anything that's happened since 1/2000. Yep.

True enough, although this is getting a bit off the topic. My dad still breaks out the blame-clinton rhetoric, and believes firmly that a blowjob in the oval office is worse than anything Bush has done (assuming Bush has done anything wrong, which is unprovable).

P.S.: On a more serious note, I know of one ex-hippie 60-year-old artist in Oregon who, along with his political pals, believes the Bush Administration knew in advance about the plans for 9/11 and -allowed- it to happen so the situation could play into the administration's hands (read: Iraqi Oil).

That's not an unreasonable assumption, IMHO, although I'm not convinced oil is the only, or even the major interest in Iraq. It's also reasonable to believe that Bush himself perhaps did not know everything, but Rumsfeld, maybe Cheney did.

People who obsess over the oil in Iraq are way too simplistic. It's more about putting a pro-western trojan horse right in the middle of the most hostile and backwards region on the planet.

Many people think Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor in advance, and did nothing so that we could get drawn into a war he wanted to get into for years.

tim_perdue · 2003-05-13 09:14:26

Translation: no you are not supporting any of the organizations like ACLU or EFF or Judicial Watch.

However, I place more faith, to my usual disappointment, in the process by which leaders are chosen. But perhaps the courts are a better place from which to defend our liberties.

Have you volunteered your time for any of the democratic presidential candidates? Contributed money to their campaigns?

I'm just guessing that you have not. (I have not either, although I have written to my Senator Charles Grassley and thanked him for standing up against the TIA system)

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Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#57 2003-04-25 11:22:31

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#58 2003-04-25 11:50:48

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#59 2003-04-25 14:04:17

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#60 2003-04-25 14:32:59

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#61 2003-04-25 14:38:59

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#62 2003-04-25 14:43:38

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#63 2003-04-28 10:55:57

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#64 2003-05-08 16:11:07

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#65 2003-05-12 15:52:49

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#66 2003-05-12 16:46:38

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#67 2003-05-12 17:14:51

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#68 2003-05-13 06:51:08

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#69 2003-05-13 07:34:23

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#70 2003-05-13 07:41:07

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#71 2003-05-13 08:53:47

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#72 2003-05-13 09:00:04

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#73 2003-05-13 09:09:54

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

#74 2003-05-13 09:14:26

Re: USA, UN, The World - Yankee Rose speaks her mind :)

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