South of the Border Politics

SpaceNut · 2019-08-17 17:11:37

Advocates already see fallout from immigration rule change

Doctors and public health experts warn of poor health outcomes and rising costs they say will come from sweeping changes that would deny green cards to many immigrants who use Medicaid, as well as food stamps and other forms of public assistance.
Federico Mason, who emigrated from Mexico over two decades ago, said he is worried about the new criteria because he is low-income and doesn't speak English well. The Chicago resident said he has no immediate plans to remove his 8- and 15-year-old sons, who are U.S. citizens, from Medicaid, but the new rule has made him more fearful about providing for his family and about applying for a green card.

Terraformer · 2019-08-18 13:15:38

How has he lived in the US for two decades without a green card?

SpaceNut · 2019-08-18 15:35:33

Good and fair question of legal or illegal status at this time. More searching on the key sentence...
Immigrants who want permanent legal status, commonly called a green card.
Meaning that you are here legally and are wanting to maintain that status of course being legal but that does not mean they are searching to become citizens does it.

https://www.necn.com/news/health/Advoca … 26151.html
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/doctors … e-1.594687

1996 welfare and immigration changes that limited public assistance for some immigrants, the use of benefits dropped steeply among U.S. citizen children and refugees, groups who were still eligible.
Studies based on data following that change showed people disenrolled from Medicaid at rates ranging from 15% to 35%, according to Harvard University's François-Bagnoud Center for Health and Human Rights.
And, it found, this came at a high cost: Asthma-related school absences in 1996 led to $719 million in lost parental productivity.

Health care costs for the children that go for medical care which have been de-enrolled from medical coverage add to the other insurers which now begin to pay once more for the unensured people of America...

Then there is the hugh care cost when the member is deported as DHHS will need to care for there American born children at an even higher cost.

Roughly 544,000 people apply for green cards annually, with about 382,000 falling into categories that would be subject to the new review, according to the government

SpaceNut · 2019-08-18 19:12:16

Not the answer we were looking for for corporate america as its only those that were illegals.
Mississippi ICE raid: More than 40 charged, no company officials

Charges have been filed in federal court accusing more than 40 people detained in the recent Mississippi chicken processing plant raids of being in the United States illegally.

AAFxD85.img?h=532&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1778&y=1252

Using contracted help keeps where they work away from committing a crime and leaves it in the hands of the hiring company.

The stay in mexico after asking for assylum is not getting harder for those seeking it as The remain in mexico as migrants face an uphill climb to get out of program stay

kbd512 · 2019-08-18 21:14:28

Let's see here... Mr Federico Mason has been in the US for two decades. He doesn't have a green card yet and hasn't learned to speak English very well. Yep, he's integrating fabulously into American society. We need millions more people just like him... For reasons no Democrat has yet to explain to me. When one of the people advocating for this foolishness can explain that to me, then maybe we can discuss how well this is likely to work, given past results. I need to see some logical argumentation here, rather than more feel-good emotional appeals as RobertDyck has made. These people have lots of other places they could go, but they're coming to America because our communists have enticed them to come with the offer of more free stuff that someone else has to pay for. I think they're in for a rude surprise, as Mr. Mason no doubt already knows.

Democrats are either looking for more people to make dependent on a government they seek to control for handouts, just another kind of indentured servant who is perhaps less acutely aware of their servitude at first, or they're trying to use these people as pawns in their political game to destroy America by siphoning off all of its wealth. Even when they had complete control over the House / Senate / Presidency, they did nothing to declare these people US citizens. They're clearly not interested in making illegal aliens equal to American citizens by granting US citizenship, just increasing the pool of economic slaves to exploit. This just looks like another idiotic scheme to bankrupt America to prove that capitalism doesn't work so they can build another socialist utopia that's destined to fail here, too.

Tell me I'm wrong, but do it with logical argumentation illustrating how this is going to increase opportunities in Americas and decrease, rather than increase, the number of poor people who are partially or entirely dependent upon American tax money merely to eat and live indoors.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-18 21:24:27

kbd512 wrote:

Let's see here... Mr Federico Mason has been in the US for two decades. He doesn't have a green card yet and hasn't learned to speak English very well. Yep, he's integrating fabulously into American society. We need millions more people just like him...

No we do not need them or anyone else not learning english and holding onto there parent language which includes all legal or illegals.
Speaking anything but english in public is a problem with all americans that do not do so....

kbd512 · 2019-08-18 22:16:39

SpaceNut,

One particular political party is advocating for bringing millions more poor people here who can't speak, read, or write the unofficial but very widespread language. I can't see how that's going to work well for the people coming here or the people already living here. I'm not about to force everyone to speak one specific language, merely because they're in our country. If you've come to live here, then you've also come to work here. If you've come to work here, then in the vast overwhelming majority of cases you need to speak English to be able to communicate effectively with everyone else that you work with. We don't need another law, nor an official language. We already have so many laws that nobody could ever possibly follow them all at all times. We need common sense to prevail.

Terraformer · 2019-08-19 03:32:19

It doesn't need to be an official ruling. Just an understanding that you have to apply for a VISA using forms written in the same language as the laws are written in, and if you can't read the forms, you won't be able to apply. If you want to take the test to apply for citizenship, the test will use the same language as the Constitution used.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-19 17:47:34

When you do not force, you lose your culture as it will become corrupted and fail to be america. Our fore fathers knew this when they chose not to create anything in bilingual content.

kbd512 · 2019-08-19 18:28:07

SpaceNut,

If we have people coming here who aren't interested in becoming Americans, then they came for the wrong reasons. When you come here, you do things the American way. Doing things the way they were done wherever they came from is what caused them to come here to begin with. If the old ways of doing things worked so great, or even passably well, then they wouldn't be here, would they?

SpaceNut · 2019-08-19 18:44:07

So how would one test to weed out those that will not change from those that will for the better?
I have had over the years the chance to interact with exchange students for the summers an actual H1B people having come to work. Both groups prepare to have at least broken english in the bag before even coming but thats not what is coming in hurds fleeing and wanting for something better.

kbd512 · 2019-08-19 21:16:58

SpaceNut,

Generally speaking, past behavior is a reasonably good indicator. If you came here to escape the law in your home country, then that's a really good first test of who shouldn't be here. If someone is legitimately seeking asylum from persecution, then America has a sworn duty to protect that person, irrespective of other considerations. That said, I don't measure a person's merit merely on their ability to speak English. It's a great first gesture as an indicator of the desire to become a citizen, but that's about it. An industrious worker who follows the laws and pays for his or her own keep is a credit to him or her self and an asset to the country. We need as many people like that as we can get.

I think a 5 year trial period is reasonable. If you can follow the laws, show up to work or school on time (dependent upon age and ability), do a good job, and feed yourself and/or family, then we should grant citizenship. If you join the military and complete your 4 years of service with an honorable discharge, that's cause enough for me to grant citizenship. I also tend to think that young Americans should be required to lead by example when they turn 18. College should be a privilege afforded to those who have served others before serving themselves.

The military need not be the only path to prove devotion to country and love for your fellow countrymen, either. We should have a construction / civil service corps (lots of road / bridges / buildings / airports in desperate need of repair), a mechanical corps (keeping the machinery of an industrialized society in peak condition, anything from tractors to aircraft- the "fixers" of society), a medical corps (taking care of the ill or infirm, both here and abroad), a diplomatic corps (building relationships with other countries), and a peace corps (civilian overseas duty, like building orphanages or schools for host countries). Other than a willingness to learn and work, no preconditions need be met. Obviously aptitude should drive decision making, though. OJT works quite well for the military and it'll work for the various service corps as well.

The idea and practice of something for nothing needs to end. Anything earned through hard work is highly prized by its recipient. Handouts are rarely fully appreciated. There's nothing at all wrong with charity, but what a constantly advancing society requires is industrious and inventive young men and women to make the gears turn. The goal is to continuously move forward at the best possible pace, not to make life a string of leisure activities. That is the American dream to me, not some object that I possess. I'm not taking any of it with me when I'm gone. All that will matter is what I leave behind.

tahanson43206 · 2019-08-19 21:56:19

For kbd512 re #362 ...

I generally try to stay out of the political discussions, but your suggestions in this post really resonate with my way of thinking. It seems unlikely to me that these ideas will have much of a chance in the United States of 2019, but they surely have a chance of serious consideration in new communities to be built away from Earth in coming decades.

My only hesitation in thinking about universal service is that I was in the service while selective service was in effect, so my impressions are based upon working with a cross section of the United States population. That experience would be very similar to the universal service concept you've outlined.

I very much appreciate having been exposed to citizens from every state, every ethnic group and (probably) every religion, although that did not factor into my experience much, since I'm not particularly interested in such matters.

In the case of the Mars venture ... In another topic, the idea of relying upon apprenticeship to pass high level knowledge from one generation to the next was offered as a way of dealing with the limitations of a small population needing to maintain first world technology capability. Your concept of universal service might be implemented in the Mars case as universal apprenticeship, supplemented by such formal education as the community can afford to organize.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-08-19 21:57:36)

SpaceNut · 2019-08-20 17:56:11

Computer just lost my post to kbd512 # 362 which I explored the first paragraph and agreed with the remaining as being spot on...

edit
Dam now it works,,,,figures.

Round up of what I was going to post relates to these links:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia … 32298.html

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refu … ted-states

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refu … m/refugees

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil. … ted-states

First is a refugee staus is defined before one can claim assylum, that our law says we do not care how they get beyond the border but I would say those that are illegal should not get the 1 yr clock to make the claim and those that come legal must document at time of claim that they seek citizenship. That they are given just 4 yrs to become one with guides to monitor the progress of achivement.
Illegals are deport regardless of a claim to assylum under being a refugee since they are caught and are not allowed to work in the US.
That proven investigated conditions are corroberated for refugee status and not be others coming to seek it also. That benefits (food stamps, welfare ect) for those seeking to become can only be given to the americans of there respective family and not the one seeking assylum protection.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-28 20:53:07

Building sections of the wall against regulations, odinances and quite franky without permission is breaking the law and Trump Border Wall Pardon for Lawbreaking to Build the Wall ...Donald Trump has reportedly told aides he will pardon them for any laws they might break to build a wall along the US-Mexico border...

SpaceNut · 2019-08-30 17:45:23

E-Verify detects workers without legal status. How do immigrants get around it?

We see enough of this type of spammer to the forum im that AKA Brandy paid a man $1500 for a new identity that fools the system....which is committing a second crime to cover up the first....

SpaceNut · 2019-09-04 19:59:21

The military just forked over $3.6B from Pentagon construction to pay for border wall sections on the order of 175 miles

Officials say the money will come from 127 projects and about half of the money will be pulled from international projects, while the other half will come from domestic projects.

Migrant children who were separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border last year suffered post-traumatic stress and other serious mental health issues

SpaceNut · 2019-09-11 20:39:33

Supreme Court allows Trump administration to restrict asylum seekers who have not sought refuge elsewhere

The supreme court seems to have sided with Trump on the version of you must be turned down by the first country thats safe for you to stay in...should that standard mean the same for the president as it would have kept his family out as well......how do you claim a country is safe or not?

SpaceNut · 2019-09-17 17:24:02

The wall has hit a wall for building in 3 sections replacements as the drug forfeiture money will not be enough to do the work and the military has stopped building. Something else in the way beside private property owners is the history of the areas that it might run through as Border fence construction could destroy archaeological sites, National Park Service finds 22 archaeological sites

nice image of Arizona’s Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument
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New construction began last month within the Organ Pipe Cactus monument, an internationally recognized biosphere reserve southwest of Phoenix with nearly 330,000 acres of congressionally designated wilderness. The work is part of a 43-mile span of fencing that also traverses the adjacent Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge. The Department of Homeland Security has taken advantage of a 2005 law to waive several federal requirements that could have slowed and possibly stopped the barrier’s advance in the stretch in Arizona, including the Archaeological Resources Protection Act, the National Historic Preservation Act and the Endangered Species Act.

SpaceNut · 2019-09-22 16:21:39

This is what we expect to have done as US citizen arrested in Texas after 53 illegal immigrants found inside sweltering tractor-trailer

SpaceNut · 2019-09-23 16:07:53

Its time Senate Democrats to force vote this week on Trump's border wall emergency declaration

Under the National Emergencies Act, Democrats can force additional votes on resolutions of disapproval blocking Trump every sixth months -prolonging the political headache for Republicans.

End the stealing from the military....

SpaceNut · 2019-09-28 19:48:57

The fast-track deportation powers were created under a 1996 law but didn't become a major piece of border enforcement until 2004

Judge bars Trump fast-track deportation policy, saying threat to legal migrants was not assessed

GW Johnson · 2019-09-28 21:23:23

Spacenut:

The BS that is happening with this immigration debacle will not end until Trump and his radical base of support is voted out of office.

We may see Trump himself impeached, and maybe not. We'll see. Myself, I'd vote for impeachment, but that's just me. The country at large is crudely evenly-split on this.

I am astonished at how closely what is currently happening resembles the Watergate debacle that culminated in Nixon's resignation to avoid House impeachment and Senate conviction. That, too, took a couple of years to play out, as did Clinton's impeachment and acquittal for getting a blow job in the Oval Office.

We've seen this before. More than once within my lifetime.

GW

SpaceNut · 2019-10-01 23:11:42

Nearly six months after taking over the Department of Homeland Security as acting secretary, Kevin McAleenan has guided the United States out of a crisis at the southern border, but he also says he has lost command of the public messaging from his department and lacks some of the authority he was promised when he took the job.

Words do matter and president Trump indicated that he could walk down a NYC street and shot some one and still be elected was to be a joke but then again recently Shoot Them in the Legs, Trump Suggested: Inside His Border War

SpaceNut · 2019-10-06 14:18:57

Trump seems to have forgotten that the requirements for on getting health insurance is no more as that was bad.. So now it seems ok Immigrants will be denied visas if they can't pay for health care under new Trump rule

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#351 2019-08-17 17:11:37

Re: South of the Border Politics

#352 2019-08-18 13:15:38

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#353 2019-08-18 15:35:33

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#354 2019-08-18 19:12:16

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#355 2019-08-18 21:14:28

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#356 2019-08-18 21:24:27

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#357 2019-08-18 22:16:39

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#358 2019-08-19 03:32:19

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#359 2019-08-19 17:47:34

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#360 2019-08-19 18:28:07

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#361 2019-08-19 18:44:07

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#362 2019-08-19 21:16:58

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#363 2019-08-19 21:56:19

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#364 2019-08-20 17:56:11

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#365 2019-08-28 20:53:07

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#366 2019-08-30 17:45:23

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#367 2019-09-04 19:59:21

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#368 2019-09-11 20:39:33

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#369 2019-09-17 17:24:02

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#370 2019-09-22 16:21:39

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#371 2019-09-23 16:07:53

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#373 2019-09-28 21:23:23

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