Advice to parents on school options

SpaceNut · 2019-08-09 19:16:24

Rights when in public test Armed man at Walmart says he was testing right to bear arms

But here is the problem with the test....

walked into a Missouri store wearing body armor and carrying a loaded rifle and handgun

So what did he expect when carrying a rifle...its not like it was in a holster, clipped in or of simular situation in which a large knife is in a waste band clip.. this is not any issue for being legal but it is also up to the store to indicate to the individual that its request to leave them locked out in there vehicles...

Now what was up with the body armor?

SpaceNut · 2019-08-13 20:22:56

Forward as well as backwalking statements that we should know better than even listen to.
Trump Endorses Background Checks, Rules Out Assault ... President Donald Trump is facing pressure from the National Rifle Association over his openness to expanding background checks in the wake of last week's deadly mass shootings.. Remember that Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-14 18:57:17

President Donald Trump has repeatedly refused to accept any responsibility for inciting violence in American communities, dismissing critics who have pointed to his rhetoric as a potential source of inspiration for some citizens acting on even long-held beliefs of bigotry and hate. ABC News has identified at least 36 criminal cases where Trump was invoked in direct connection with violent acts, threats of violence or allegations of assault.

In nine cases, perpetrators hailed Trump in the midst or immediate aftermath of physically attacking innocent victims. In another 10 cases, perpetrators cheered or defended Trump while taunting or threatening others. And in another 10 cases, Trump and his rhetoric were cited in court to explain a defendant's violent or threatening behavior.

Not a single criminal case filed in federal or state court where an act of violence or threat was made in the name of President Barack Obama or President George W. Bush. could be found unlike President Trump. Where as Trump is asserting that "fake" media coverage is exacerbating divisions in the country.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-14 19:03:06

Aug. 19, 2015: In Boston, after he and his brother beat a sleeping homeless man of Mexican descent with a metal pole, Steven Leader, 30, told police "Donald Trump was right, all these illegals need to be deported." The victim, however, was not in the United States illegally. The brothers, who are white, ultimately pleaded guilty to several assault-related charges and were each sentenced to at least two years in prison.
Dec. 5, 2015: After Penn State University student Nicholas Tavella, 19, was charged with "ethnic intimidation" and other crimes for threatening to "put a bullet" in a young Indian man on campus, his attorney argued in court that Tavella was just motivated by "a love of country," not "hate." "Donald Trump is running for President of the United States saying that, 'We've got to check people out more closely,'" Tavella's attorney argued in his defense. Tavella, who is white, ultimately pleaded guilty to ethnic intimidation and was sentenced to up to two years in prison.
April 28, 2016: When FBI agents arrested 61-year-old John Martin Roos in White City, Oregon, for threatening federal officials, including then-President Barack Obama, they found several pipe bombs and guns in his home. In the three months before his arrest, Roos posted at least 34 messages to Twitter about Trump, repeatedly threatening African Americans, Muslims, Mexican immigrants and the "liberal media," and in court documents, prosecutors noted that the avowed Trump supporter posted this threatening message to Facebook a month earlier: "The establishment is trying to steal the election from Trump. ... Obama is already on a kill list ... Your [name] can be there too." Roos, who is white, has since pleaded guilty to possessing an unregistered explosive device and posting internet threats against federal officials. He was sentenced to more than five years in prison.
June 3, 2016: After 54-year-old Henry Slapnik attacked his African-American neighbors with a knife in Cleveland, he told police "Donald Trump will fix them because they are scared of Donald Trump," according to police reports. Slapnik, who is white, ultimately pleaded guilty to "ethnic intimidation" and other charges. It's unclear what sentence he received.
Aug. 16, 2016: In Olympia, Washington, 32-year-old Daniel Rowe attacked a white woman and a black man with a knife after seeing them kiss on a popular street. When police arrived on the scene, Rowe professed to being "a white supremacist" and said "he planned on heading down to the next Donald Trump rally and stomping out more of the Black Lives Matter group," according to court documents filed in the case. Rowe, who is white, ultimately pleaded guilty to charges of assault and malicious harassment, and he was sentenced to more than four years in prison.
Sept. 1, 2016: The then-chief of the Bordentown, New Jersey, police department, Frank Nucera, allegedly assaulted an African American teenager who was handcuffed. Federal prosecutors said the attack was part of Nucera's "intense racial animus," noting in federal court that "within hours" of the assault, Nucera was secretly recorded saying "Donald Trump is the last hope for white people." The 60-year-old Nucera has been indicted by a federal grand jury on three charges, including committing a federal hate crime. Nucera, who is white, has pleaded not guilty and is awaiting trial. He retired two years ago.
September 2016: After 40-year-old Mark Feigin of Los Angeles was arrested for posting anti-Muslim and allegedly threatening statements to a mosque's Facebook page, his attorney argued in court that the comments were protected by the First Amendment because Feigin was "using similar language and expressing similar views" to "campaign statements from then-candidate Donald Trump." Noting that his client "supported Donald Trump," attorney Caleb Mason added that "Mr. Feigin's comments were directed toward a pressing issue of public concern that was a central theme of the Trump campaign and the 2016 election generally: the Islamic roots of many international and U.S. terrorist acts." Feigin, who is white, ultimately pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of sending harassing communications electronically. He was sentenced to probation.
Oct. 13, 2016: After the FBI arrested three white Kansas men for plotting to bomb an apartment complex in Garden City, Kansas, where many Somali immigrants lived, one of the men's attorneys insisted to a federal judge that the plot was "self-defensive" because the three men believed "that if Donald Trump won the election, President Obama would not recognize the validity of those results, that he would declare martial law, and that at that point militias all over the country would have to step in." Then, after a federal grand jury convicted 47-year-old Patrick Stein and the two other men of conspiracy-related charges, Stein's attorney argued for a lighter sentence based on "the backdrop" of Stein's actions: Trump had become "the voice of a lost and ignored white, working-class set of voters" like Stein, and the "climate" at the time could propel someone like Stein to "go to 11," attorney Jim Pratt said in court. Stein and his two accomplices were each sentenced to at least 25 years in prison.
Nov. 3, 2016: In Tampa, Florida, David Howard threatened to burn down the house next to his "simply because" it was being purchased by a Muslim family, according to the Justice Department. He later said under oath that while he harbored a years-long dislike for Muslims, the circumstances around the home sale were "the match that lit the wick." He cited Trump's warnings about immigrants from majority-Muslim countries. "[With] the fact that the president wants these six countries vetted, everybody vetted before they come over, there's a concern about Muslims," Howard said. Howard, who is white, ultimately pleaded guilty to a federal civil rights violation, and the 59-year-old was sentenced to eight months in prison.
Nov. 10, 2016: A 23-year-old man from High Springs, Florida, allegedly assaulted an unsuspecting Hispanic man who was cleaning a parking lot outside of a local food store. "He was suddenly struck in the back of the head," a police report said of the victim. "[The victim] asked the suspect why he hit him, to which the suspect replied, 'This is for Donald Trump.' The suspect then grabbed [the victim] by the jacket and proceeded to strike him several more times," according to the report. Surveillance video of the incident "completely corroborated [the victim's] account of events," police said. The suspect was arrested on battery charges, but the case was dropped after the victim decided not to pursue the matter, police said. Efforts by ABC News to reach the victim for further explanation were not successful.
Nov. 12, 2016: In Grand Rapids, Michigan, while attacking a cab driver from East Africa, 23-year-old Jacob Holtzlander shouted racial epithets and repeatedly yelled the word, "Trump," according to law enforcement records. Holtzlander, who is white, ultimately pleaded guilty to a charge of ethnic intimidation, and he was sentenced to 30 days in jail.
Jan. 3, 2017: In Chicago, four young African-Americans -- sisters Brittany and Tanishia Covington, Jordan Hill and Tesfaye Cooper -- tied up a white, mentally disabled man and assaulted him, forcing him to recite the phrases "F--k Donald Trump" and "F--k white people" while they broadcast the attack online. Each of them ultimately pleaded guilty to committing a hate crime and other charges, and three of them were sentenced to several years in prison.
Jan. 25, 2017: At JFK International Airport in New York, a female Delta employee, wearing a hijab in accordance with her Muslim faith, was "physically and verbally" attacked by 57-year-old Robin Rhodes of Worcester, Mass., "for no apparent reason," prosecutors said at the time. When the victim asked Brown what she did to him, he replied: "You did nothing, but ... [Expletive] Islam. [Expletive] ISIS. Trump is here now. He will get rid of all of you." Rhodes ultimately pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of "menacing," and he was sentenced to probation.
Feb. 19, 2017: After 35-year-old Gerald Wallace called a mosque in Miami Gardens, Florida, and threatened to "shoot all y'all," he told the FBI and police that he made the call because he "got angry" from a local TV news report about a terrorist act. At a rally in Florida the day before, Trump falsely claimed that Muslim refugees had just launched a terrorist attack in Sweden.
Feb. 23, 2017: Kevin Seymour and his partner Kevin price were riding their bicycles in Key West, Florida, when a man on a moped, 30-year-old Brandon Davis of North Carolina, hurled anti-gay slurs at them and "intentionally" ran into Seymour's bike, shouting, "You live in Trump country now," according to police reports and Davis' attorney. Davis ultimately pleaded guilty to a charge of battery evidencing prejudice, but in court, he expressed remorse and was sentenced to four years of probation.
May 3, 2017: In South Padre Island, Texas, 35-year-old Alexander Jennes Downing of Waterford, Connecticut, was captured on cellphone video taunting and aggressively approaching a Muslim family, repeatedly shouting, "Donald Trump will stop you!" and other Trump-related remarks. Police arrested downing, of Waterford, Connecticut, for public intoxication. It's unclear what came of the charge.
May 11, 2017: Authorities arrested Steven Martan of Tucson, Arizona, after he left three threatening messages at the office Rep. Martha McSally, R-Ariz. In one message, he told McSally he was going to "blow your brains out," and in another he told her that her "days are numbered." He later told FBI agents "that he was venting frustrations with Congresswoman McSally's congressional votes in support of the President of the United States," according to charging documents. Martan's attorney, Walter Goncalves Jr., later told a judge that Martan had "an alcohol problem" and left the messages "after becoming intoxicated" and "greatly upset" by news that McSally "agreed with decisions by President Donald Trump." Martan, 58, has since pleaded guilty to three counts of retaliating against a federal official and was sentenced to more than one year in prison.
Oct. 22, 2017: A 44-year-old California man threatened to kill Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., for her frequent criticism of Trump and her promise to "take out" the president. Anthony Scott Lloyd left a voicemail at the congresswoman's Washington office, declaring: "If you continue to make threats towards the president, you're going to wind up dead, Maxine. Cause we'll kill you." After pleading guilty to one count of threatening a U.S. official, Lloyd asked the judge for leniency, saying he suffered from addiction-inducing mental illness and became "far too immersed in listening to polarizing political commentators and engaging in heated political debates online." His lawyer put it this way to the judge: "Mr. Lloyd was a voracious consumer of political news online, on television and on radio … [that are] commonly viewed as 'right wing,' unconditionally supportive of President Trump, and fiercely critical of anyone who opposed President Trump's policies." The judge sentenced Lloyd to six months of house arrest and three years of probation.
April 6, 2018: The FBI arrested 38-year-old Christopher Michael McGowan of Roanoke, Virginia, for allegedly posting a series of Twitter threats against Rep. Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., over several months. In one posting in December 2017, McGowan wrote to Goodlatte: "I threatened to kill you if you help Trump violate the constitution," according to charging documents. In another alleged post, the self-described Army veteran wrote: "If Trump tries to fire [special counsel Robert] Mueller I WILL make an attempt to execute a citizens arrest against [Goodlatte] and I will kill him if he resist." In subsequent statements to police, he said he drinks too much, was "hoping to get someone's attention over his concerns about the current status of our country," and did not actually intend to harm Goodlatte, court documents recount. A federal grand jury has indicted McGowan on one count of transmitting a threat over state lines, and it's unclear if he has entered a plea as he awaits trial.
July 6, 2018: Martin Astrof, 75, approached a volunteer at the campaign office of Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., in Suffolk County, New York, and "state[d] he was going to kill supporters of U.S. congressman Lee Zeldin and President Donald Trump," according to charging documents. Astrof was arrested and ultimately pleaded guilty to reckless endangerment. He was sentenced to one year of probation.
August 2018: After the Boston Globe called on news outlets around the country to resist what it called "Trump's assault on journalism," the Boston Globe received more than a dozen threatening phone calls. "You are the enemy of the people," the alleged caller, 68-year-old Robert Chain of Encino, California, told a Boston Globe employee on Aug. 22. "As long as you keep attacking the President, the duly elected President of the United States ... I will continue to threat[en], harass, and annoy the Boston Globe." A week later, authorities arrested Chain on threat-related charges. After a hearing in his case, he told reporters, "America was saved when Donald J. Trump was elected president." Chain has pleaded guilty to seven threat-related charges, and he is awaiting sentencing.
Oct. 4, 2018: The Polk County Sheriff's Office in Florida arrested 53-year-old James Patrick of Winter Haven, Florida, for allegedly threatening "to kill Democratic office holders, members of their families and members of both local and federal law enforcement agencies," according to a police report. In messages posted online, Patrick detailed a "plan" for his attacks, which he said he would launch if then-nominee Brett Kavanaugh was not confirmed as a Supreme Court justice, the police report said. Seeking Patrick's release from jail after his arrest, Patrick's attorney, Terri Stewart, told a judge that her client's "rantings" were akin to comments from "a certain high-ranking official" -- Trump. The president had "threatened the North Korean people -- to blow them all up. It was on Twitter," Stewart said, according to the Sarasota Herald-Tribune. Patrick has been charged with making a written threat to kill or injure, and he has pleaded not guilty. His trial is pending.
Late October 2018: Over the course of a week, Florida man Cesar Sayoc allegedly mailed at least 15 potential bombs to prominent critics of Trump and members of the media. Sayoc had been living in a van plastered with pro-Trump stickers, and he had posted several pro-Trump messages on social media. Federal prosecutors have accused him of "domestic terrorism," and Sayoc has since pleaded guilty to 65 counts, including use of a weapon of mass destruction. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison. "We believe the president's rhetoric contributed to Mr. Sayoc's behavior," Sayoc's attorney told the judge at sentencing.
Dec. 4, 2018: Michael Brogan, 51, of Brooklyn, New York, left a voicemail at an unidentified U.S. Senator's office in Washington insisting, "I'm going to put a bullet in ya. … You and your constant lambasting of President Trump. Oh, reproductive rights, reproductive rights." He later told an FBI agent that before leaving the voicemail he became "very angry" by "an internet video of the Senator, including the Senator's criticism of the President of the United States as well as the Senator's views on reproductive rights." "The threats were made to discourage the Senator from criticizing the President," the Justice Department said in a later press release. Brogan has since pleaded guilty to one count of threatening a U.S. official, and he is awaiting sentencing.
Jan. 17, 2019: Stephen Taubert of Syracuse, New York, was arrested by the U.S. Capitol Police for threatening to kill Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., and for threatening to "hang" former President Barack Obama. Taubert used "overtly bigoted, hateful language" in his threats, according to federal prosecutors. On July 20, 2018, Taubert called the congresswoman's Los Angeles office to say he would find her at public events and kill her and her entire staff. In a letter to the judge just days before Taubert's trial began, his defense attorney, Courtenay McKeon, noted: "During that time period, Congresswoman Waters was embroiled in a public feud with the Trump administration. … On June 25, 2018, in response to Congresswoman Waters' public statements, President Trump tweeted: 'Congresswoman Maxine Waters, an extraordinarily low IQ person, has … just called for harm to supporters … of the Make America Great Again movement. Be careful what you wish for Max!'" As McKeon insisted to the judge: "This context is relevant to the case." A federal jury ultimately convicted Taubert on three federal charges, including retaliating against a federal official and making a threat over state lines. He was sentenced to nearly four years in prison.
Jan. 22, 2019: David Boileau of Holiday, Florida, was arrested by the Pasco County Sheriff's Office for allegedly burglarizing an Iraqi family's home and "going through" their mailbox, according to a police report. After officers arrived at the home, Boileau "made several statements of his dislike for people of Middle Eastern descent," the report said. "He also stated if he doesn't get rid of them, Trump will handle it." The police report noted that a day before, Boileau threw screws at a vehicle outside the family's house. On that day, Boileau allegedly told police, "We'll get rid of them one way or another." Boileau, 58, has since pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of trespassing, and he was sentenced to 90 days in jail.
Feb. 15, 2019: The FBI in Maryland arrested a Marine veteran and U.S. Coast Guard lieutenant, Christopher Paul Hasson, who they said was stockpiling weapons and "espoused" racist and anti-immigrant views for years as he sought to "murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country." In court documents, prosecutors said the 49-year-old "domestic terrorist" compiled a "hit list" of prominent Democrats. Two months later, while seeking Hasson's release from jail before trial, his public defender, Elizabeth Oyer, told a federal judge: "This looks like the sort of list that our commander-in-chief might have compiled while watching Fox News in the morning. … Is it legitimately frustrating that offensive language and ideology has now become part of our national vocabulary? Yes, it is very frustrating. But … it is hard to differentiate it from the random musings of someone like Donald Trump who uses similar epithets in his everyday language and tweets." Hasson faces weapons-related charges and was being detained as he awaits trial. He has pleaded not guilty.
Feb. 15, 2019: Police in Falmouth, Massachusetts, arrested 41-year-old Rosiane Santos after she "verbally assault[ed]" a man for wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat in a Mexican restaurant and then "violently push[ed] his head down," according to police reports. Apparently intoxicated, "she stated that [the victim] was a 'motherf----r' for supporting Trump," one of the responding officers wrote. "She also stated that he shouldn't be allowed in a Mexican restaurant with that." Santos was in the United States unlawfully, federal authorities said. Police arrested her on charges of "simple assault" and disorderly conduct. She has since admitted in local court that there are "sufficient facts" to warrant charges, and she has been placed on a form of probation.
Feb. 25, 2019: An 18-year-old student at Edmond Santa Fe High School in Edmond, Oklahoma, was captured on cellphone video "confronting a younger classmate who [was] wearing a 'Make America Great Again' hat and carrying a 'Trump' flag," according to a press release from the local school system. "The [older] student then proceeds to grab the flag and knock the hat off of his classmate's head." The 18-year-old student was charged in local court with assault and battery, according to Edmond City Attorney Steve Murdock. The student has since pleaded guilty and was placed on probation, Murdock added.
March 16, 2019: Anthony Comello, 24, of Staten Island, New York, was taken into custody for allegedly killing Francesco "Franky Boy" Cali, the reputed head of the infamous Gambino crime family. It marked the first mob boss murder in New York in 30 years, law enforcement officials told ABC News the murder may have stemmed from Comello's romantic relationship with a Cali family member. Court documents since filed in state court by Comello's defense attorney, Robert Gottlieb, said Comello suffers from mental defect and was a believer in the "conspiratorial fringe right-wing political group" QAnon. In addition, Gottlieb wrote: "Beginning with the election of President Trump in November 2016, Anthony Comello's family began to notice changes to his personality. … Mr. Comello became certain that he was enjoying the protection of President Trump himself, and that he had the president's full support. Mr. Comello grew to believe that several well-known politicians and celebrities were actually members of the Deep State, and were actively trying to bring about the destruction of America." Comello has been charged with one count of murder and two counts of criminal possession of a weapon. His trial is pending, and he has pleaded not guilty.

April 5, 2019: The FBI arrested a 55-year-old man from upstate New York for allegedly threatening to kill Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., one of the first two Muslim women elected to the U.S. Congress. She is an outspoken critic of Trump, and Trump has frequently launched public attacks against her and three other female lawmakers of color. Two weeks before his arrest, Patrick Carlineo Jr. allegedly called Omar's office in Washington labeling the congresswoman a "terrorist" and declaring: "I'll put a bullet in her f----ing skull." When an FBI agent then traced the call to Carlineo and interviewed him, Carlineo "stated that he was a patriot, that he loves the President, and that he hates radical Muslims in our government," according to the FBI agent's summary of the interview. Federal prosecutors charged Carlineo with threatening to assault and murder a United States official. Carlineo is awaiting trial, although his defense attorney and federal prosecutors are working on what his attorney called another "possible resolution" of the case.
April 13, 2019: 27-year-old Jovan Crawford, of Gaithersburg, Maryland, and 25-year-old Scott Roberson Washington, D.C., assaulted and robbed a black man wearing a red "Make America Great Again" hat while walking through his suburban Maryland neighborhood. Before punching and kicking him, "The two suspects harassed [the victim] about the hat and asked why he was wearing it. [The victim] told them he has his own beliefs and views," according to charging documents filed after their arrest by Montgomery County, Maryland, police. Crawford later received a text message noting that, "They jumped some trump supporter," the charging documents said. Crawford and Roberson have since pleaded guilty to assault charges and are awaiting sentencing.
April 18, 2019: The FBI arrested John Joseph Kless of Tamarac, Florida, for calling the Washington offices of three prominent Democrats and threatening to kill each of them. At his home, authorities found a loaded handgun in a backpack, an AR-15 rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. In later pleading guilty to one charge of transmitting threats over state lines, Kless admitted that in a threatening voicemail targeting Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., he stated: "You won't f---ing tell Americans what to say, and you definitely don't tell our president, Donald Trump, what to say." Tlaib, a vocal critic of Trump, was scheduled to speak in Florida four days later. Kless was awaiting sentencing. In a letter to the federal judge, he said he "made a very big mistake," never meant to hurt anyone, and "was way out of line with my language and attitude."
April 24, 2019: The FBI arrested 30-year-old Matthew Haviland of North Kingstown, Rhode Island, for allegedly sending a series of violent and threatening emails to a college professor in Massachusetts who publicly expressed support for abortion rights and strongly criticized Trump. In one of 28 emails sent to the professor on March 10, 2019, Haviland allegedly called the professor "pure evil" and said "all Democrats must be eradicated," insisting the country now has "a president who's taking our country in a place of more freedom rather than less." In another email the same day, Haviland allegedly wrote the professor: "I will rip every limb from your body and … I will kill every member of your family." According to court documents, Haviland's longtime friend later told the FBI that "within the last year, Haviland's views regarding abortion and politics have become more extreme … at least in part because of the way the news media portrays President Trump." Haviland has been charged with cyberstalking and transmitting a threat in interstate commerce. His trial is pending.
June 5, 2019: The FBI arrested a Utah man for allegedly calling the U.S. Capitol more than 2,000 times over several months and threatening to kill Democratic lawmakers, whom he said were "trying to destroy Trump's presidency." "I am going to take up my second amendment right, and shoot you liberals in the head," 54-year-old Scott Brian Haven allegedly stated in one of the calls on Oct. 18, 2018, according to charging documents. When an FBI agent later interviewed Haven, he "explained the phone calls were made during periods of frustration with the way Democrats were treating President Trump," the charging documents said. The FBI visit, however, didn't stop Haven from making more threats, including: On March 21, 2019, he called an unidentified U.S. senator's office to say that if Democrats refer to Trump as Hitler again he will shoot them, and two days later he called an unidentified congressman's office to say he "was going to take [the congressman] out … because he is trying to remove a duly elected President." A federal grand jury has since charged Haven with one count of transmitting a threat over state lines. Haven pleaded not guilty and was awaiting trial.
Aug. 3, 2019: A gunman opened fire at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas, killing 22 people and injuring 24 others. The FBI labeled the massacre an act of "domestic terrorism," and police determined that the alleged shooter, 21-year-old Patrick Crusius, posted a lengthy anti-immigrant diatribe online before the attack. "We attribute that manifesto directly to him," according to El Paso police chief Greg Allen. Describing the coming assault as "a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas," the screed's writer said "the media" would "blame Trump's rhetoric" for the attack but insisted his anti-immigrant views "predate Trump" -- an apparent acknowledgement that at least some of his views align with some of Trump's public statements. The writer began his online essay by stating that he generally "support" the previous writings of the man who killed 51 Muslim worshippers in New Zealand earlier this year. In that case, the shooter in New Zealand said he absolutely did not support Trump as "a policy maker and leader" -- but " a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure." Crusius has been charged with capital murder by the state of Texas

kbd512 · 2019-08-14 19:33:08

More people were murdered last year by blunt objects than rifles of any description- whether the rifle in question was a single shot, a bolt action, a pump action, a semi-automatic, or a fully automatic. Incidentally, that would include those non-existent "assault weapons".

People who make logic-based decisions know that "assault" is a behavior, of which only animate objects are capable, not inanimate objects we choose to call "weapons". Apparently, a brick or a baseball bat can also be used as a weapon to assault someone, and were factually used in greater numbers of lethal criminal assaults here in the US of A to murder people than those dreaded "assault weapons" according to the FBI's UCR.

Given the numbers of people murdered with blunt objects, we really should look into banning bricks and baseball bats while we're considering banning certain types of firearms- assuming we're capable of the fundamental logic required to differentiate human behavior from inanimate objects. I've seen no evidence to support the idea that the people advocating for such laws are capable of differentiating behaviors of animate objects from inanimate objects, which have no behaviors of their own, merely a "state of being".

President Trump signed no such bill that revoked background checks on people with mental illnesses. Reading lies from political partisan media sources is not the same thing as knowing the law. Anyone who is involuntarily committed to a mental health treatment institution or adjudicated mentally incompetent / defective is not legally permitted to purchase or possess a firearm of any kind. That was the law long before former President Obama took office and it remains the law to this day.

So... How do mentally ill people still manage to get their hands on firearms?

Simple. Criminals don't follow the law and neither does our government, as it pertains to prosecuting violations of the law. While we can't stop criminals from breaking the law, we could certainly start prosecuting them 100% of the time, as it pertains to weapons violations, whenever they do it. That was the only actual "change" between the Obama and Trump administrations. Under President Trump's administration, by direction of Attorney General Sessions, federal prosecutions of violations of firearms laws dramatically increased. It's amazing how criminals who are locked up can't commit any crimes agains the general public while they're behind bars.

I also get the feeling that the definition of the word "criminal" must be a really difficult to understand concept for our magical thinkers. Those would be people who, by dictionary definition, do not abide by the laws. They don't care what someone scribbles on their paper defining what they can or can't do and they certainly don't pay any attention to posted signage regarding "gun free zones", which should rightly be called "mass murder zones", since that's what really happens in places designated as "gun free zones". Evidently, this is an incredibly complex concept for the people who think banning something changes behaviors, but there it is, plain as day.

At the end of the day, I wonder about what problem we're intent on solving with "assault weapon" bans. It most certainly can't be murder, since that happens in greater numbers with blunt objects than any type of rifle, no matter how it's labeled.

kbd512 · 2019-08-14 19:50:07

SpaceNut,

By my count, that makes a whole 41 people, some of whom were most definitely not fans of President Trump, who committed racist or criminal acts while President Trump was in office. America is a country with approximately 400 million people in it if we count all the illegals- and here in America, we do. The people you just posted about represent a whopping 0.0000001025% of America's population. They literally represent 1 in 10 million people.

If only 1 in 10 million people couldn't read and write at a high school level, we'd be doing better than any other country on the planet. Good job stoking fears of an almost non-existent problem for partisan political purposes, though. If only 1 in 100 million people did something that was racist or otherwise bigoted, would that still be the most pressing problem America has?

Terraformer · 2019-08-15 03:12:49

kbd512,

Our monkey brains don't handle large populations very well. If 200 people believe something, our brains go "That's our whole Monkeysphere, better listen!", rather than "That's a mere 1% of a small city/large town, it's probably not worth listening.".

If something is found in/held by a mere 1 in 100,000 people, America will have enough people to populate a small town. Britain will have to settle for a village. In a large enough population, fringe beliefs come to be held by quite significant populations in absolute terms.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-15 18:06:24

The assault by 41 was a means to kill many which is why we use these weapons for war.. As they are meant to spray bullets for mass number of deaths and injuries.

As for the percentage of gun law changes under trump must have been a fluke....

In 2017, Trump quietly rolled back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illness to buy guns. Trump made it easier for the mentally ill to get guns when he rolled back Obama regulation

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/08/trump … n-control/

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/ … ns-1449663

https://thehill.com/regulation/317634-h … a-gun-rule

https://everytown.org/press/the-facts-t … -gun-laws/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a … nd-tariffs

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pr … n-n1039301

Single to less than 5 by unlawful gun use, is a problem but the chances of this is due to poor police presence and coverage of the areas that these deaths occur within. The gun laws that are not being enforced when these happen is from lost or stolen, not passed on to law enforcement upon death for the gun owners relatives and so many more missed opportunity to correct that issue.

kbd512 · 2019-08-15 20:57:53

SpaceNut,

Not all of the 41 people you posted about even used an instrument as a weapon. Some simply said or did something threatening. Given that those people you posted about literally represent 1 in 10 million people, I'm far less concerned about whether they have weapons or not than I am that people like you are advocating for the rest of us to surrender our best means to defend ourselves against them, however few or far between they happen to be.

Unsurprisingly, neither you nor the Police that you incessantly blame for the activities of criminals were anywhere to be found when I really needed someone there to protect the people I care about. Oddly enough, at 2:30AM in my own home, I was the only person there to deter someone with a crowbar from breaking in through my back door and having his way with my family. Maybe you would fight that person with your own crowbar or baseball bat, half asleep, but I prefer to keep my dealings with the criminal element of society brief and non-violent. Pointing a gun at the criminal's head tends to work best for that. Most of them seem to understand that. It's no great loss to society if they don't.

Some of our infantrymen still carry bolt-action rifles into combat. Oddly enough, they're also "armed" with shovels. Both "tools" see service as "weapons", as the situation dictates. A rifle with no ammo still makes a serviceable club or spear. However, most infantrymen and citizens who value their lives don't want to revert to dealing with people who are trying to kill them the way we did in the Dark Ages. I happen to share that sentiment because I want those who aren't simply the strongest / meanest / angriest people on the planet to have a snowball's chance in hell of a relatively peaceful life. Survival of the fittest doesn't favor people who think the best way to deal with armed violent criminals is to disarm themselves and pray for mercy or rely on people they openly despise (Police Officers) to come save their sorry rear ends, either. The criminals really don't care if their victims are too stupid to arm themselves and fight back.

So... There's no such thing as a "weapon of war" and there never was. Anything that can be used as a weapon in combat, will be used that way. Similarly, cars have been used to run people over, gasoline has been used to set people on fire, poison has been used to poison people, etc. Anyone who thinks government-sponsored theft of firearms from the general citizenry will reduce crime is delusional at best.

All firearms can cause injuries and death, just like those bricks and baseball bats. For reasons clearly not related to caring at all about violence, our regressives studiously ignore the greater number of deaths from the bricks and baseball bats than their fanciful "assault weapons" because it doesn't support their political beliefs that demand disarmament of more victims in the vain hope that there will be fewer victims. In point of fact, not point of partisan political belief, more Americans were killed by bricks and baseball bats and other blunt objects last year than any type of rifle, from single shot to fully automatic. This entirely fictional human brain construct regressives have stuck in their heads, as it pertains to violence and the use of weapons, doesn't even have a passing connection with reality. Assault is a human behavior, not a particular type of weapon.

The law pertaining to mentally ill people and firearms remains what it was, long before former President Obama or current President Trump ever took office. Criminals and mentally ill people were murdering people with and without firearms, before, during, and after former President Obama was in office. Like so many other ineffectual laws prohibiting such things as, oh I don't know, murder for example, passing another law that all criminal will simply ignore had no effect on criminals or criminally insane people whatsoever. Locking up people who are a threat to themselves and others is the only known effective way to protect the rest of society from their insanity or criminality. Period.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-19 19:38:27

California's 'red flag' law might be helping to reduce mass shooting risk, study says expedite the removal of guns from people seen as a public danger by family members or law enforcement, its "red flag" law.

The existing law, which took effect in 2016, resulted in judges ordering the temporary removal of firearms from more than 600 people after family members or law enforcement offices petitioned the courts saying the individuals appeared to pose a risk to harm themselves or others.
Of 414 cases through 2018, some 91% involved males and 61% were non-Hispanic whites, the study said. UC Davis researchers are continuing to collect information on orders issued, but the initial report focused on 21 cases where 52 guns were removed from individuals.
In three cases, individuals had purchased guns but were undergoing the 10-day waiting period before delivery, and a court order blocked their acquiring of the firearms, Wintemute said. In one of those cases, a man was awaiting delivery of a shotgun, but officers who searched his home found 400 rounds of ammunition.

Sounds like this is a check and balance to prove you are in control of what you have purchased....

kbd512 · 2019-08-19 20:28:07

SpaceNut,

If you personally know someone who is mentally unstable, then generally speaking, seeking professional help and removing the means to do harm before the rest of the world is beholden to that person's psychotic break is a reasonably good idea. However, those same laws have also been used capriciously by unscrupulous people, criminals by any other name who claimed that other people were potential threats for criminal purposes, to take things from others who were never a danger to themselves or other people. They were then stuck in the position of proving they weren't a danger to themselves or others, which can never be done, and paying for it.

If we apply that same logic to all other potentially dangerous things, then we're just going to end up committing people who are psychotic. That requires due process of law, but the process works as intended when its followed by scrupulous people. As long as people making false allegations of mental instability are also prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law or likewise committed for anti-social behavior, then I see no problem.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-20 16:24:22

The dancing around the question was with regards to whom is qualified to say that some one has a mental deficiency. Does have a degree with no prior interaction allow for the short visit to see that one might not be quite whole. About the same time it takes to fill out an application. Or does the non degreed person which sees the interaction daily for extended periods make them more qualified to at least raise the red flag of questionable doubt.

kbd512 · 2019-08-20 18:57:46

SpaceNut,

In order to take things from someone or to involuntarily force them to do something, a court order is required. Such court orders follow a mental health evaluation by qualified professionals. You may think you know someone quite well, but that doesn't mean you have had interactions with hundreds to thousands of people who truly did have mental health issues. Psychologists do have those kinds of interactions on a daily basis. Nobody is infallible, to include doctors, but if 2 of 3 psychologists agree that someone has a serious mental health care issue, then their experienced-based opinions carry more weight than that of a casual or even intimate observer.

Can a pilot simply look at a plane and tell something is clearly wrong?

Well, sure... I can look at how a plane is sitting on the tarmac from some distance and tell that it has a flat tire. However, an A&P mechanic who has worked on thousands of planes can tell me that in addition to the flat tire, the wing spar that I couldn't see also has stress corrosion cracking issues and even if the tire was replaced, the plane in question is still not in airworthy condition. That's the difference between someone who routinely "interacts" with some specific plane in an operational capacity and someone who has a depth and breadth of knowledge about how to keep planes flying, irrespective of what specific type the plane happens to be. Furthermore, designing aircraft has next to nothing to do with flying them. You could be the best aircraft designer who ever lived and still be completely incapable of actually piloting one of your designs.

So, who do you want maintaining the airframe, an amateur who only knows what little he's been taught and remembers about some specific aircraft that his flight instructor flew with him in, or an A&P (Airframe & Powerplant) mechanic who has worked on dozens of different types of aircraft over the years?

Do you want someone who maintains aircraft to start designing them without the knowledge of what forces the airframe has to contend with or the strength and fatigue limits of specific types of materials?

Would you want that pilot to start designing aircraft without knowing the first thing about fluid dynamics, merely because he's flown quite a few hours behind various different types of aircraft?

If none of those things seem like particularly good ideas, then you can begin to understand why I'm not merely taking the word of some random person I've never met before that someone they know has a serious mental health issue without first making my own personal observations of said person's behavior.

Much like the Police, I don't know the person making the claim, nor the person the claim was made against, from Adam. I'm there to investigate and evaluate, then pass on my findings to someone else to independently review what I found. That's why we need agreement from 2 out of 3 independent evaluators. If 1 person says something, I have hearsay. If 2 people both say something different, I have a dilemma. If 2 out of 3, or especially 3 out of 3 people all report the same thing, it's a better than average probability that there's a problem.

Dr. Mom is not a real doctor. She may love you to death, quite literally if she makes an egregiously bad decision regarding your medical care, which is why I demand that "Mom" have a "MD" behind her name before I start taking medical advice from her. To this day, my wife believes I know something about her that I don't merely because I asked for, or rather demanded, a MRI from her doctor when she was pregnant with our last child- someone who was just a run-of-the-mill OBGYN. Turns out she had a brain tumor- not something that happens very often to 30 year old pregnant women. Did I "know" that? Hell no. Did I "suspect" something was seriously wrong? Yes. Could I have been totally wrong? Absolutely. Every time she asks me for medical advice, my reply is the same- "I don't know honey. I don't know anything about medicine. I'm not a doctor. Let's go ask some people who have the letters M-D behind their names. If they don't know, then I don't know who will."

I lived next door to a pediatric neurosurgeon some years back. He didn't know how to fix his sprinkler system until I showed him how. The fact that he didn't know anything about a sprinkler system means nothing at all, and I sure as hell don't know how to perform brain surgery on a child. Irrespective of his knowledge of sprinkler systems, that man was STILL smarter than I'll ever be and more qualified to perform brain surgery than I will ever be. Professional / knowledgeable only applies with qualifications and limitations. For some reason, regressive types think social status or fame and fortune means those people "know" something more than they really do. I don't consider the opinions of Hollyweird people regarding who I should vote for, for example. Most of them aren't competent at pretending to be someone they're not, much less making foreign policy decisions or deciding who is sane enough to own a firearm. And oh-by-the-way, the only reason I knew anything at all about the stupid sprinkler system was because someone else was kind enough to take the time to explain things to me.

Our regressive types may be upset with my answers because that doesn't provide a way to backstab other people over their political differences on guns or who sits in the Oval Office, but there it is- reasonable middle ground from a Republican who strongly believes in all of our Constitutional Rights. It's a way to legally and morally take guns or other potentially dangerous things from people who aren't mentally fit to possess them without also providing an easy way to capriciously strip Constitutional Rights from people over petty ideological differences. Last but not least, before every regressive in the country decides to go out and get a psychology degree to take guns from people they have political disagreements with, there aren't any conservative or Republican psychologists out there. Much like socialists / communists who respect the rights of other people, they don't exist.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-20 20:28:10

What you called out is termed a questioning additude of wanting explanation and in this case it was a test which gave you the answer.

Its this same aspect that is used by all of the trades which work on a Submarine under repair or upgrade as the mechanics are barely trade taught but follow word for word the paper instructions. Engineers are used to verify the entry made from measurement values which are used to judge if its got any issues.

What you talk about for the sprinkler is just what some see as the ability to take a shelf in a box and think that everyone can build it from the instructions. Or to repair their car from a chilton auto repair book without the trade skill knowledge and hand tool use experience to go with the instructions.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-22 16:14:31

chastotnikbof wrote:

The issue of the 2nd amendment is simple.
No one denies evey person has a right to life. You cannot have a right to life without the right to protect that life. You cannot protect your life without the proper tool to do it. The only tool that is effective against an assailant with a gun is a gun. Once your right to protect your life is removed by outlawing guns, then you no longer have a right to life. It is that simple.

Moved to correct topic...

I do not think that anyone is saying to take away all types of guns but what we are saying is that some types and there respective large quantity of rounds should be of limited sales to civilians.

kbd512 · 2019-08-22 20:34:23

SpaceNut,

The gun banners have already indicated their desire to prohibit the sale of all firearms of any type to all civilians. The only people they're fooling with their duplicitous propaganda campaigns are the people who never knew anything about firearms to begin with, most likely because they've never owned a firearm. They certainly aren't fooling any of us who own firearms, as we know that their ultimate goal is the confiscation of all privately owned firearms. There are already thousands of laws pertaining to the possession, use, and sale of firearms. We don't need any more laws. We need a government that actually enforces the laws at all times, not just whenever it's convenient for them.

The vast overwhelming majority of Americans who are murdered with firearms are murdered with handguns. Very few of those people who died were shot more than once or twice, apart from cases of domestic / intimate partner violence or rival gang members / drug dealers, so the arguments about firing rate and magazine capacity are just ignorant. Approximately 9,500 people are murdered with handguns per year and 400 to 500 with rifles and shotguns. Once again, this was never about reducing crime or murder rates, it's only another example of how the Democrat Party is trying to divide Americans to further their political agenda.

Given that 19 to 1 or greater disparity between murder rates with handguns and rifles or shotguns of any kind, to included those non-existent "assault weapons", one has to wonder about what problem our gun banners are trying to solve. I think it's victim disarmament, because it's certainly not about having any effect at all on murder rates. After the "assault weapons" are banned and/or confiscated, and murder rates, to include mass murder rates, remain every bit as high as they've ever been, then they'll demand to ban all other types of firearms. The last "assault weapons ban" had no discernible effect on murder rates according to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives, quite possibly because it's an imaginary category of weapon that has almost no bearing on murder rates. Moreover, in a country with more guns than people, we should all be dead by now if the gun banners arguments carried any water.

RobertDyck · 2019-08-23 11:35:45

68517611_2203532213105580_8533546919853555712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQmhrUU3WgGHuErUscRc69RkueN3FWI9gKWfAeYjIYVyx7h0KpoXMYYKM7znkRd_Ppk&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc2-1.fna&oh=414c04ac5c933b2c960171fb45c12529&oe=5DD971F3
You realize Trump's tax cuts are permanent for the rich and large corporations, but cuts for average working people are temporary. Rather than worry about that, you're afraid the torch people will take away your pitchfork.

SpaceNut · 2019-08-23 16:30:12

Look out for when the haybail is on fire going over the wall with the pitchfork still in it....

DOJ: Epstein was removed from suicide watch after being cleared by psychologist

kbd512 · 2019-08-24 13:53:45

SpaceNut,

I beginning to understand the frustration that Josh must have felt when he was trying to explain how climate change worked before he changed my opinion on climate change. I keep telling you what the problem is, in as many ways as I know how, along with the only known solutions that have actually worked in the past, and you keep ignoring them and substituting alternatives that satisfy your belief system, namely allowing random people to make mental health care decisions regarding taking things from people who have never committed any crimes, that they could otherwise use to protect themselves from people who are criminals- as if somehow that would address the problem of criminal behavior and violence. To paraphrase Josh, I can't say that I've learned anything about firearms or violence from arguing these points, but it's been interesting to read about what other people believe about firearms and violence.

If someone who deals with people who have mental health problems on a routine basis doesn't get every diagnosis correct, then what do you suppose the chances of someone making a correct diagnosis are, who has little to no broader experience with mental health care, beyond the one person they know who may or may not have mental health issues?

The overwhelming majority of medical malpractice law suits filed here in America are filed against people who hold valid medical licenses to practice medicine. If the title of the medical PRACTICE license doesn't make it obvious enough, medicine is a practice- not a 100% thoroughly understood science where we humans have little more to learn. Anyone who thinks more education and experience equates to infallibility is mistaken. However, any complete amateur who thinks he or she knows substantially more than someone who has spent their entire life studying something is, in nearly all cases, equally mistaken.

I don't go to my auto mechanic for advice about brain surgery, nor do I ask brain surgeons about why my car's engine is making a funny noise. Moreover, I don't take advice from random people off the street about brain surgery or engine repair. If we need people to make mental health evaluations, then we're not taking advice from random people, merely because the psychologist can't produce a correct diagnosis 100% of the time.

SpaceNut · 2019-09-01 20:48:58

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/shoot … ar-AAGEueU

36-year-old man who terrorized two West Texas towns with an assault-style rifle

kbd512 · 2019-09-01 22:10:38

SpaceNut,

Appearances, or "style", seems to matter quite a lot to people who are self-infatuated (like the people in our media), doesn't it?

During an average day here in the US, just shy of 685 people are killed due to mistakes made in the practice of medicine. If we're not also banning the practice of medicine, which by math kills approximately 393 TIMES the number of people killed in mass shootings on a monthly basis (using the media's own 53 people killed in August as our monthly figure), then we're not banning guns, either. Frankly, banning either is an utter waste of time. Your yearly chances of being a victim of a mass shooting are 1 in 628,930. Your yearly chances of being struck by lightning are about 1 in 700,000, so slightly more probable than being struck by lightning. In reality, our yearly mass shooting death tolls in this decade hover around 500 or so, meaning closer to 1 in 800,000.

SpaceNut · 2019-09-28 19:34:23

GW Johnson wrote:

All that being said (post 1487 just above), the issue of guns vs gun control is another sensitive issue. I happen to believe in Constitutional rights, but I also recognize that such rights have limits. For example, your right to swing your fist ends BEFORE you hit my nose! For another example, we DO NOT ALLOW crying "fire" in a crowded theater, when there is no fire. That stuff is long-established law.
Myself, I have no problem with the 1934-vintage ban on private ownership of machine guns (and some other items of mass killing). The public death toll was just too large to tolerate, when such were legal. We-the-people simply did not need machine guns to be a credible threat of armed revolution if government misbehaved, because there's so much more of us than the headcount of the standing army. It is really that simple.
We can always (and quite properly!!!) debate the detailed numbers, but I see no problem looking at the triple combination (all-at-once !!!) of firing rate, stopping power, and available magazine size, for what to ban and what not to ban. That's not what most of the Democrats espouse today, and certainly not any of what passes for a Republican proposal today, but it makes perfect common sense to me.
As I have often said, I despise both parties.
GW

SpaceNut · 2019-09-28 19:36:42

The you have a selected target that is hit out of false haterd Sikh deputy killed in ‘coldblooded’ shooting after making history in Texas, sheriff says

GW Johnson · 2019-09-28 22:09:26

The largest "source" of firearms deaths is simple street crime with handguns. Not a lot can be done about that until we are willing to address the root causes that turn folks to a life of crime. That is a very complicated and difficult subject indeed. And you must recognize that the guns are already out there; trying to get them back will be futile.

A far smaller source of firearms deaths is the problem of mass shooters, many (but nowhere-near all) of which are using so-called assault weapons. Over the last several years, that problem has been evolving away from "crazies getting guns" toward nominally-sane domestic terrorists motivated by extremist echo chambers on the internet. Figure out how to deal with that extremist crap on the internet, without abridging free speech, and you will have done the very most effective thing there is to do. I have no answer for that yet.

For either crazies-with-guns or extremists, the next most important thing you can do is defend your gun-free zones properly. The criteria for that have been known since the 19th century American frontier towns. If you eliminate sitting-duck targets, the crazies and the extremists have to do something else.

The criteria are: (1) respond with a properly trained peace officer, (2) respond within about 60 seconds, (3) be sure your responder can out-gun the threat, and (4) make gun-free zone compliance easy by providing a means to check your guns in upon entering, and recovering them easily upon leaving.

As for "assault" weapons, what you must consider is the triple combination of firing rate, stopping power, and magazine size simultaneously, not separately! All 3 are a military weapon, only 2 or 1 of these is not. And not much of a mass death threat, either.

We can debate what the numbers are for firing rate, stopping power, and magazine size. I suggest 2-3 shots per second, one shot to the chest puts a man down incapacitated (if not dead), and something like 10-15 rounds in a magazine.

If we all decide to ban something, we must also obtain overwhelming public support before implementing that ban. That was the "secret" behind the 1934-vintage ban on civilian machine guns.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-09-28 22:16:44)

SpaceNut · 2019-10-13 17:22:57

There is a problem when a Fort Worth police officer checking out a residence with an open door opened fire on a 28-year-old woman inside her home. Pre-med with an 8 yr old in the home...
Texas Police Officer Shoots Woman

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