US & Russia Explore Mars together! - Calling for Manned Mission by 2014...

clark · 2003-05-05 09:01:42

Russia, US agree to explore Mars together

Russia and the United States have agreed to launch a joint programme of Mars exploration, officials said here Monday after talks between the heads of the US and Russian space agencies.
The two countries "have agreed to begin joint exploration of Mars and carry out joint unmanned interplanetary station flight programmes," Sergei Gorbunov, spokesman for Russia's Rosaviakosmos space agency, told the Interfax news agency.
"In addition, it was decided that Russia can take part in US space tenders," Gorbunov added.
NASA administrator Sean O'Keefe held talks with his Russian counterpart Yury Koptev to discuss cooperation including over the 16-nation International Space Station (ISS).
In May 2001 the Russian Space Agency announced a tender for designs for a manned flight to Mars, with experts saying they expected the final plans to be announced in 2005.
Last year Russian space experts urged their US and European colleagues to join them in launching a manned flight to Mars by 2014.
Many experts believe January 2014 would be a propitious date for a Mars exploration bid because an exceptional alignment of Earth, Mars and Venus that year would provide an escape route back to Earth in the event of a breakdown by means of a gravitational slingshot effect.
The US space agency NASA is currently engaged in small-scale studies on manned flight to Mars but has no plans for a mission.
Information obtained from unmanned flights to Mars has revealed that the planet has a very thin atmosphere and, although there is no liquid water, scientists believe it is possible the climate could sustain life in the form of micro-organisms.

Hey Josh, worried yet?

RobertDyck · 2003-05-05 12:33:32

Where did you read this? I haven't been able to find this news article, and I checked Nasa News, the Mars Society home page, Space.com, SpaceRef.com, CNN, CBC, BBC, and even TASS. The only article I did find was a July 5 article from MSNBC. That article said Russia proposed it, not that Nasa accepted.

clark · 2003-05-05 12:55:15

I thought I had included the link- my apologies.

I found it at Space Daily

http://www.spacedaily.com/2003/03050515 … jrq85.html

nirgal · 2003-05-05 15:09:47

I'm highly skeptical. There is no confirmation from NASA yet and the russians are always short on money. How are they going to pay for it? And the author of this article seems to be ill informed:

"Despite the deadlock, O'Keefe and Koptev discussed a project for a US-Russian space probe, said a top Russian space official who is working on the launch of a European space probe due to be sent up on June 2 on a Russian rocket [Mars Express].

"Russian and US specialists began working on the Martian project 10 years ago," Vasily Moroz from the Russian Space Research Institute told the ITAR-TASS news agency.

The two sides had considered the possibility of sending a US space probe equipped with a Russian descent module and launched with a Russian booster rocket, but financial issues had stalled work on the project, he said."

I've *never* heard of such a mission before and it would not surprise me at all if the author of this piece (obviously a mainstream journalist) got the facts all messed up. Work on this program started ten years ago and we never heard of it until now? Please...And why use a russian booster for an unmanned Mars mission? Perhaps if it was a really *big* probe it would take an Energia HLV to launch it, but again: that's highly unlikely.

clark · 2003-05-06 09:42:32

I'm highly skeptical. There is no confirmation from NASA yet and the russians are always short on money. How are they going to pay for it?

International collaboration. The Russian's are willing to work with *anyone*. They practically built the Chinese space infrastructure. They have a lot of skilled people, which we are running out of, and they have a great deal of experience in areas we lack.

The agreement means we can now use their heavy lift launchers, which means we don't have to develop our own.
It might also offer an alternative to launch equipment slated for Shuttle Launches. The Shuttle is our heavy lifter, and it ain't flying until next year, at the earliest.

That's a guess.

O'Keefe's visit was practically unannounced, there was no 'heads-up' on what the meeting between the two chiefs was about, until after the meeting.

So now we have a 'Project Prometheus', nuclear propulsion for faster space travel, more robust missions. Why do we need to travel faster for non-human payloads? We don't.

Now we have a realignment of our space priorities, which include developing all of the technology for long duration human flight. We don't need increases in bio-medical science research if all we are planning on doing is keeping 2 people on the ISS.

Now we have an increase in military funding for more space based assessts. We have private enterprise coming to market, finally, to deliver lower cost space access.

Now we have more countries entering into LEO and GEO with their own space infrastructure. We are no longer the only one who can get there. The ESA is getting ready to launch Magellen- Russia has plans for it's own GPS system, so does China.

The ISS is nearing US complete- with that goes most of NASA's priorities.

Things are changing because the technology is finally reaching fruition, and the neccessity is increasing- economicaly, politcaly, and militarly.

The Cold War drove our space policy, and lo and behold, with its demise, our space policy floundered for *a reason to be*.

Now the new *reason to be* is being revealed.

clark · 2003-05-06 09:59:50

From the BBC, how's that for 'confrimation'?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3002453.stm

Mars mission agreed
The Russian and US space agencies have agreed to co-operate on a joint unmanned mission to Mars and expand the development of other joint interplanetary probes.

Nonetheless, Mr O'Keefe and Mr Koptev have given the green light to a programme to build a US-Russian space probe for the exploration of Mars.
One senior Russian space agency official told Russian news agency Itar-Tass that a similar joint project was started 10 years ago.

I'm betting that this space probe will be a high-bandwidth communication sat to help support further research on Mars.

Europe is about to lauch their first Mars probe...

RobertDyck · 2003-05-06 10:21:11

I found an article in ITAR-TASS which pertains to permitting Russia to bid on NASA contracts. It doesn't mention a Mars probe. I can only assume BBC confirmed the story before publication.
Russia to participate in NASA space equipment tenders

nirgal · 2003-05-06 12:54:38

Again, I think the author who originally reported this got it all wrong. I can't believe NASA and the russians have secretely worked on a Mars probe for such a long time. I can see the russians working with NASA on Project Prometheus, for example supplying them with nuclear fuel but that's about it.

BTW: NASA has a very ambitious Mars exploration program on its own: I'm looking forward to the nuclear powered big rover they plan to send to Mars in 2009. Europe has stepped up is Mars exploration program as well: in 2009 the esa will launch the ExoMars Mission and a sample return mission is slated for 2011 (NASA has postponed such a mission until 2015 at the earliest).

clark · 2003-05-06 13:07:58

I can't believe NASA and the russians have secretely worked on a Mars probe for such a long time.

I think you may be mistaken, there has been no secret work on any probe between the US and Russia space agencies. There was once an agreement to work on a Mars probe between the two space agencies 10 years ago, but that was never completed due to a lack of funding.

. I can see the russians working with NASA on Project Prometheus, for example supplying them with nuclear fuel but that's about it.

The Russians are far more capable than you seem to be giving them credit for. Remember that right now, they are the only nation on Earth capable of safely sending and returning humans to space. They have a lot to offer besides nuclear fuel, even assuming that is what we wanted from them.

NASA has a very ambitious Mars exploration program on its own: I'm looking forward to the nuclear powered big rover they plan to send to Mars in 2009. Europe has stepped up is Mars exploration program as well:

There is something like three or four Mars probes slated to launch this year, to take advantage of the Mars-Earth orbit alignment window.

If Russia can tender for US launches, where do you think these launches would take place? Perhaps.... Russia.

What could we possibly want to launch on Russian soil, but not US soil?

Nuclear 'anything'. ???

nirgal · 2003-05-06 18:17:31

There was once an agreement to work on a Mars probe between the two space agencies 10 years ago, but that was never completed due to a lack of funding.

Never heard about such an agreement but I'm interested. Can you give me a link?

The Russians are far more capable than you seem to be giving them credit for. Remember that right now, they are the only nation on Earth capable of safely sending and returning humans to space. They have a lot to offer besides nuclear fuel, even assuming that is what we wanted from them.

I'm fully aware of the russians' technological expertise and I admire them very much for it. It's just that they don't have any money to spend on fancy probes to Mars, they have even trouble making their government cough up enough money for Progress and Soyuz flights to the ISS. NASA wouldn't be able to get a single rocket off the ground with a budget as small as theirs...
As to the nuclear fuel: I read that here.

clark · 2003-05-07 09:00:35

Never heard about such an agreement but I'm interested. Can you give me a link?

Fromt he BBC report I linked to earlier:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3002453.stm

One senior Russian space agency official told Russian news agency Itar-Tass that a similar joint project was started 10 years ago.
Vasily Moroz from the Russian Space Research Centre said the two sides had considered using a US-built probe with a Russian booster rocket and descent module, but that the project was drawn to a halt by funding issues.

It's just that they don't have any money to spend on fancy probes to Mars, they have even trouble making their government cough up enough money for Progress and Soyuz flights to the ISS.

Yeah, but they have rocket scientists that they would like to keep employed. They have a space industry that they want to keep- so they need to find things for them to do.

I believe one of the reports indicated that Russia would get a larger share of the ISS budget- whatever that means.

dicktice · 2003-05-07 14:26:05

Well, that makes sense ... since it's they who are keeping it up there!

nirgal · 2003-05-07 14:47:03

I'm still not convinced since I can't find anything about such a joint mission elsewhere on the net...

clark · 2003-05-07 14:54:16

Okay Nirgal. Time will tell...

nirgal · 2003-05-07 17:25:01

clark, I've finally managed to dig up some more info on this earlier Mars initiative:

"International collaboration on all Mars missions will be an important aspect of exploration in the next decade. Many space agencies around the world are considering participation in the planning stages of future missions, including those of Russia, Japan and many European countries. Scientists from the United States are consulting with international partners on the best ways to combine their efforts in Mars exploration. This may result in new proposals for cooperative missions in the first decade of the 21st century.

Among the ongoing programs taking shape is one called "Mars Together", a concept for the joint exploration of Mars by Russia and the United States. The program was initiated in the spring of 1994 and bore its first fruit in the summer of 1995. A Russian co-principal investigator and Russian hardware were incorporated into one experiment, the Pressure Modulator Infrared Radiometer, to be flown on NASA's Mars Surveyor 1998 orbiter. Vassili Moroz of the Russian Academy of Sciences Space Research Institute (IKI) in Moscow will co-lead the experiment with Dr. Daniel McCleese of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. The Russian institute will also provide the optical bench for the radiometer. In addition, IKI will furnish a complete science instrument, the LIDAR (Light Detection and Ranging) Atmospheric Sounder, for the 1998 Mars Surveyor lander. Dr. Sergei Pershin of IKI is the principal investigator.

Meanwhile, more extensive collaboration is under consideration for a 2001 mission. A joint U.S.-Russian Mars Together team has been formed to study a combined U.S.-Russian spacecraft launched by a Russian Molniya rocket. The exact configuration is still under study, but Russia expects to include a descent module containing a rover, called Marsokhod, in its portion of the payload.

NASA and the Russian Space Agency have agreed to start planning toward a potential sample return mission in the middle of the first decade of the 21st century. A joint science team has been charted to study this possibility."

Link

nirgal · 2003-05-07 17:30:48

Marsokhod

Maybe O'Keefe has invited Russia to participate in the 2009 nuclear powered rover project. This thing will be really big and it will travel up to 100 kilometres on the surface. Cool!

All other Mars missions now on the drawing board at NASA (Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter in 2005, Mars Scout in 2007) are already too far along in their development as to allow for a useful russian contribution to the respective program.

Mars pioneer · 2003-05-17 14:30:56

I think this is great news for all the mars loving people!

A manned mission to Mars in 2014 is much earlier then I ever expected. I'm happy when such a mission will take place before 2020.

Ad Astra · 2003-07-22 19:56:35

Russian cooperation will be essential to near-term Mars exploration. NASA is going to the Russian Space Agency to buy RTG's for the 2009 Mars Smart Rover. Russia also has much more experience than the US for space nuclear reactors.

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