South of the Border Politics

SpaceNut · 2019-06-24 18:29:44

Something that should not be happening along the Rio Grande border; four bodies — The bodies of three children and a woman

Another event along with getting to the next election is Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, unveiling his immigration policy outline ahead of the first 2020 debates, is calling for Congress to grant citizenship immediately to more than 800,000 U.S. residents who were brought to the country illegally as children.

Whether Biden gets that far something should have been done along time ago.

SpaceNut · 2019-06-25 19:54:22

Saw a news story report of Mexico sending its troops to slow and stop the crossing into America which will be reduced once a wall is errected one would assume...

House Democrats try to rally progressive support for emergency border bill to provide $4.5 billion in emergency funding for the escalating humanitarian crisis at the border

With the White House threatened to veto over restrictions that would “hamstring” immigration enforcement....but in reality. The bill contains more than $1 billion to shelter and feed migrants detained by the border patrol and almost $3 billion to care for unaccompanied migrant children who are turned over the Department of Health and Human Services.

SpaceNut · 2019-06-26 18:19:59

15,000 mexican troops along the US border do not have orders to stop migrants from crossing Seems that No such order has been issued to detain and that its not our job," President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador told a press conference.

SpaceNut · 2019-06-28 17:13:15

While waiting for the asylum law and other laws to get to his desk Under pressure from U.S., Mexico launches raids against migrants
Mexico City-- About 100 Mexican soldiers and immigration agents raided a freight train in the southern state of Chiapas on Thursday

US Supreme Court to take up ‘Dreamers’ case

SpaceNut · 2019-06-29 14:57:38

Federal judge blocks Trump from using $2.5B in military which was taken with the executive national order.. U.S. District Judge Haywood Gilliam issued the permanent injunction Trump revives ICE raid threat, blasts judge who ruled against border wall. Trump overstepped his authority by reprogramming federal funds without approval from Congress.

Congress just passed a bill for emergency humanitarian aid to the border if Trump signs it...to the tune of 4.6 billion
Border Patrol officials unveil new facility designed to hold migrants in Arizona

The tent-like structures are weatherproof and climate-controlled, the press release states.
The $15 million contract for the facility also calls for showers, toilets, sinks and sleeping mats, among other resources. Heating and cooling is also included, along with kitchen and storage facilities, and custodial services.

Terraformer · 2019-06-30 02:26:57

Why are all these cases heard in California? Does the United States not have other districts?

SpaceNut · 2019-06-30 07:53:35

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U … ial_courts

The residency of the claim is where the court is held.

Kids set up lemonade stand to help raise money for detained migrant kids at the border

Thank you for the service...

“Regardless of your immigration status, life is the priority,” Mr. Pope said as he treated Mr. Gutierrez. “The other stuff can wait.”

In the Arizona Desert, an Elite Border Patrol Unit Responds to Desperate Cases

SpaceNut · 2019-06-30 21:48:33

Another 43-year-old migrant dies in US border custody

SpaceNut · 2019-07-02 21:42:17

Even the worst criminals get to go to trial and are not incarerated for forever while waiting so the policy that calls for immigrants to face being illegal with a permanence is about to expire.
Judge blocks Trump policy keeping asylum-seekers locked up as these people who have entered the U.S., they are entitled to the Fifth Amendment's due-process protections, including "a longstanding prohibition against indefinite civil detention with no opportunity to test its necessity."

For the past 50 years, the government has given asylum-seekers bond hearings before immigration judges where they can argue that they should be released because they are not flight risks and pose no threat to the public, the immigrant rights groups told the court. That gives the asylum-seekers an opportunity to reunite with relatives in the U.S. and to find lawyers to handle their asylum claims, making them more likely to succeed.
The new policy would end that practice, keeping between 15,000 and 40,000 immigrants in custody for six months or more without requiring the government to show that their detentions are justified, the groups argued. Typically, close to half of asylum-seekers who are granted bond hearings are released from custody.
government must provide a bond hearing within seven days of a request by any immigrant who has demonstrated that they have a credible fear of persecution or torture if returned to their home country. The asylum-seekers must be released if not granted a hearing within that time frame

SpaceNut · 2019-07-04 09:16:20

All most comical to think that illegas will have the ability to pay let alone acknowledge that they recieved the notices... Trump Administration Hits Some Immigrants In U.S. Illegally With Fines Up To $500,000

Through in the facts that probably the ones recieving a notice has already been given a pardon will make this silly...

GW Johnson · 2019-07-04 10:04:22

Spacenut:

These migrants in recent years are not what we dealt with in prior decades. These are asylum seekers fleeing death in their own countries. These are mostly families with children. What we dealt with before was mostly guest worker males looking for jobs they had to have, using visas they could not obtain due to unrealistic quota limits. Huge change.

Under current law, these people have the right to cross the border and ask for asylum. No guarantees about getting it, that's for a judge to decide. But they have the right to cross and ask, and that law DOES NOT CARE WHERE OR HOW they crossed the border. THAT is what is on the books as law, distasteful as it is to the more extremist right-wingers in this country that so evidently hate these immigrants. The rest is in administrative regulations, which should conform to the law, but do not always do so.

Both Obama and now Trump, and the more-or-less Republican-dominated Congresses both men had or have, have failed to address this change in what we face at our border. They failed miserably. Of the two, Trump fails worse. His zero-tolerance policies, at whatever level he can get past the courts, deny these asylum seekers their right to ask for asylum by criminalizing their stepping across the border. THAT is NOT in accord with federal law.

Neither man funded staffing-up and facilitizing for the surge in asylum seekers. THAT is why conditions for these people are so atrocious. If this were a war, such treatment would be a war crime. As it is, it is a crime against humanity. Either way, holding folks accountable is needed here. And every dollar spent building Trump's infamous wall is another dollar NOT spent dealing with the ongoing atrocity. So he is the worse offender.

Another aspect that makes Trump the worse offender by far is why he continues policies leading to atrocities: the mistreatment of these folks is intended to demotivate others from coming. Trump and his minions have already said so, in public, on multiple occasions.

I say again, committing these atrocities on our own soil deliberately as a means to change people's behavior in foreign countries is a crime against humanity. If that does not qualify as a "high crime and misdemeanor", then nothing does.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-07-04 10:06:51)

SpaceNut · 2019-07-04 10:31:58

They have made the choice to avoid conditions which are not so good and once here they must make a new choice to adopt the nations culture and being if they are to stay. This is where a sanctuary cities comes in to allow for the peoples to learn of the culture to work while living and to not become what they wanted to leave behind them in this new protection zone. This is where we also failed them in that we did not remove that cultural thinking of crime pays, while they were in a safety net to become new Americans.

Terraformer · 2019-07-04 10:44:54

Which Central American countries have wars going on at the moment?

SpaceNut · 2019-07-04 21:30:09

Conflicts and instablity https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/centra … n-triangle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_American_crisis

Terraformer · 2019-07-05 03:13:23

I said *at the moment*. Not 40 years ago.

Crime is not a valid reason for claiming asylum. Not unless it's so great that you're entire country can legitimately be considered to be in a state of civil war.

SpaceNut · 2019-07-05 10:51:17

yes, you did get history but there were also links for years 2015, 2018 with in them.
https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/september/ … l-america/

Seeing that propaganda rules no news coming from the area about the conditions would be how they control.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 … ign-policy

Trump does not believe that there is the problems that those coming here say..
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-d … e-to-stay/

Central America consists of seven countries: Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Panama of which we took care of. Seems that the violence have lessened in Belize and Nicaragua, which only leaves El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala as the troubled spots....

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … on/586726/

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/America … mmigration

Terraformer · 2019-07-06 02:24:04

Again, are these countries undergoing wars at the moment?

Fleeing crime is not a recognised reason to claim refugee status, under international law.

SpaceNut · 2019-07-06 15:58:56

States of war involve:
armed conflict between states, governments, societies and informal paramilitary groups, such as mercenaries, insurgents and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces. Rape is a weapon of war – and of gang conflict. Last year, the government acknowledged the use of sexual violence in and between street gangs in the UK. gang war. two rival gangs fighting over a piece of land or turf. the grove street gang and the baller gang are having a gang war over oakley park.

kbd512 · 2019-07-06 16:30:16

Terraformer,

You're conversing with someone who is fixated on an ideology that's predicated on a divergent thought pattern that's been proven to fail since the first time it was tried and every subsequent attempt thereafter, without exception. Asking such a person to provide proof that established norms were followed, as it pertains to seeking asylum, is like asking them to talk to a tree. They don't know how to process it and come up with anything remotely resembling a useful answer.

These "asylum seekers" are running away from the leftist / communist nutters who ran their own countries into the ground, and presumably being encouraged to run amok here in America by our own communists living here, so as to ruin America like they've ruined every other country that they've risen to power in. It's "revenge" for a wrong that they perpetrated against themselves, but have no clue how to fix. It's why they require a constant supply of other peoples' money and "smarter people", who are in reality are no smarter than the people who voted for them, from the government to swoop in and fix all of life's little problems, along with a permanent victim / oppressor mentality. Without all of that, their entire world view crumbles to dust along with all the other bad ideas that have been relegated to the dust bin of history. That's precisely why any practical solution provided is studiously rejected, because they're not looking for a solution. They're in a state of constant crisis, driven solely by their own ideation and warped interpretation of the events going on around them, and another great reason why they shouldn't be teaching anyone what to think or how to think.

This is the principle problem with divergent thought. Usable solutions that don't require a wholesale suspension of current reality require convergent thought practices. Even if you're an "independent thinker" / "divergent thought" type, you still need convergent thought to survive- even in the cloistered world of modern America. This is something that leftists / communists aren't easily capable of, if at all. They let you know they're not capable of it every time they talk or write about their belief system and the bizarre "solutions" that they come up with to problems of their own creation or things that don't even exist in the world outside their three pound universe.

I try to look at this idiocy in the best possible light, in that America is potentially gaining millions of young consumers to bolster our economic base. However, that requires that these illegals be reasonably well educated- which they aren't, learn the language- which too few will, and don't spend the rest of their natural lives on welfare- perhaps the most dubious point of all, given all recent past experience. Unfortunately, that falls woefully short of economic reality- these illegals are costing us hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Again, all just a smaller part of a bigger plan to destroy America economically since the communists of this world have no hope of ever achieving any sort of military takeover.

SpaceNut · 2019-07-06 18:10:51

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/asylum

Terraformer · 2019-07-07 02:00:16

SpaceNut,

If "gang warfare" is legitimate grounds for asylum, then residents of Chicago could move to Canada if they wished, as refugees.

Does the violence cover the entire country, such that it can be considered an undeclared civil war? Then maybe I can see a case, though the traditional way to deal with these situations is refugee camps in a neighbouring safe country, not moving them all permanently into the US.

SpaceNut · 2019-07-10 16:37:49

They just change cities...

Illegals that have died in US CBP custody...and this is what they seem to be worth.'World should know what is happening' to children in ICE detention: Mother testifies Death of Guatemalan toddler detained by ICE sparks $60 million legal claim

SpaceNut · 2019-07-14 16:26:53

The raids to round up what is being called people which have had there do process and already have orders for removal should have been ongoing with the individuals being picked up without the fan fair...
ICE Launches Low-Key Raids Targeting Migrant Families in Coordinated federal raids targeting undocumented migrant parents and their children began over the weekend, part of President Trump’s pledge....

Which couild mean endangering American born children and citizens...of which in typical fashion on twitter is attacking americans..
Leave the US, Trump tells liberal congresswomen of color President Donald Trump on Sunday assailed a group of Democratic congresswomen of color as foreign-born troublemakers Americans to go back to there country of origin....

kbd512 · 2019-07-14 17:36:24

The US has borders, SpaceNut. Liberals need to learn to deal with that. When you enter the US illegally, we're obligated by law to send you back to wherever you came from. You don't have to agree with the laws, but that's what the laws say.

SpaceNut · 2019-07-14 20:31:20

So what does it really mean when ICE raids across major US cities fall short of expectations but fear remains when will it really happen this round up that was never started even after the first one crossed the border....

Target cities are San Francisco, Los Angeles, Houston, Denver, Miami, New Orleans, New York, Baltimore, Chicago and Atlanta, to arrest about 2,000 undocumented immigrants with final removal orders... sounds by all the hype that it aught to be 200,000 or 2 million....

As a result of 9/11 and Homeland security ICE was created in 2003 through a merger of the investigative and interior enforcement elements of the former U.S. Customs Service and the Immigration and Naturalization Service. ICE now has more than 20,000 law enforcement and support personnel in more than 400 offices in the United States and around the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immi … nforcement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Cust … Protection

Not really what it started out to be...

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