New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#1 2019-01-25 19:27:26

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,702
Website

Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

The Huffington Post: Donald Trump Promised NASA Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020: Book

A former White House aide writes in "Team of Vipers" that Trump wanted the Mars mission speeded up by more than a decade so it would happen on his watch.

NASA has long stated its aim of sending humans to Mars sometime in the 2030s.

But Donald Trump reportedly wanted it done much sooner.

In fact, an upcoming book by former White House communications official Cliff Sims says the president wanted the first manned spaceflight to the Red Planet done and dusted by the end of his first term in office ― 2020.

Sims details Trump’s fantastical attempt to bring the mission forward by more than a decade in Team Of Vipers, excerpts of which New York magazine published on Tuesday.

The author writes that Trump, before an April 2017 video call with U.S. astronaut Peggy Whitson, offered the space agency’s then-acting administrator Robert Lightfoot Jr. unlimited funds if NASA “focused entirely” on the mission to Mars “instead of whatever else you’re doing now.” Trump also promised to send NASA’s budget “through the roof.”

But the president was left “visibly disappointed,” Sims notes, when Lightfoot explained why it would not be possible.

Offline

#2 2019-01-25 19:35:42

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,619

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

This was also the same promise to get Orions flight manned rather unmanned as well. Money does not solve everything though it does not hurt the poor something that he has forgotten....
I know that we are not always happy with the Nasa costs to out come but thats what you get with bloat, duplication, lack of forward thinking while living in the past....

Offline

#3 2019-01-25 20:21:30

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,702
Website

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

I wish Mr Trump would hire me. I would kick ass, get EM1 done this year, and EM2 done either later this year or early 2020. And if we don't land humans on Mars by 2024, we could at least land a Mars habitat on the Moon, to be used as a permanent Moon base. That would demonstrate long-term reliability of the equipment at a location where crew can evacuate at any time, back to Earth in 3 days.

If I had my way, those 2 missions would be the only ones with Orion. I posted my preferred Moon mission: architecture similar to Apollo, Dragon capsule, reusable LM. Launch LM on Falcon Heavy, then Dragon on separate Falcon Heavy. Each subsequent mission only requires 1 launch of Dragon on Falcon Heavy. Use SLS block 2B to land a Mars Direct habitat on the Moon. Use Dragon/LM as a crew taxi.

BFS sounds nice, but it's too big. It'll take too long because it's too big. First demonstrate LCH4/LOX and on-orbit propellant transfer using the smaller system. Explore Mars with Mars Direct. Dragon capsule for ERV. Yea, my preferred Mars architecture would use a reusable interplanetary vehicle. MAV would carry extra propellant so the MAV would be the TEI stage. Rendezvous and dock with ISS on return to Earth, so ISS is a construction/maintenance shack for ITV. While the "small" Mars vehicle explores the Red Planet, BFS would be developed. I put quotes around "small" because a Mars Direct habitat is not small compared to Apollo.

Offline

#4 2019-01-25 20:39:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,619

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

Add to the parts with habitats that have inflateables where possible and cynus when its gives an advantage.
Make SLS a fuel depot launcher or full stages to dock to as well gives more possiblities for man once in orbit.

Offline

#5 2019-01-26 05:22:13

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,087

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

In-orbit refuelling must have been practised otherwise the ISS could not have been kept where it is for all these years.

Offline

#6 2019-01-26 12:17:56

Mark Friedenbach
Member
From: Mountain View, CA
Registered: 2003-01-31
Posts: 308

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

Is that sarcasm? ISS doesn’t use in-orbit refueling for station keeping.

Offline

#7 2019-01-26 14:05:23

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,049
Website

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

It would have been possible to mark the Apollo half-century, though, with a return to Tranquillity. Falcon Heavy and Dragon could do it. All that's needed to add is a lander.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#8 2019-01-26 14:16:34

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,702
Website

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

Mark Friedenbach wrote:

Is that sarcasm? ISS doesn’t use in-orbit refueling for station keeping.

Yes, ISS does use in-orbit refuelling. Progress cargo ships carry propellant: UDMH/N2O4. That replenishes propellant stored in Zarya and Zvezda, the functional cargo block and Russian service module. Those modules share propellant, thrusters on Zarya were used for station keeping until Zvezda was attached, now Zvezda does that. Progress first performed in-orbit propellant transfer to refuel Salyut 6, later for Salyut 7, Mir, and now ISS. Salyut 7 is updated from the design of Salyut 6, Mir core module is updated form Salyut 7, and Zvezda is updated from the Mir core module. When Europe operated their ATV cargo ship, it docked with ISS on Russian docking hatches. ATV used MMH/N2O4 for its own propulsion, but carried UDMH/N2O4 to replenish the tanks on the Russia side of ISS.

Offline

#9 2019-01-26 15:15:56

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,619

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

Rocket fuels there properties and performance
http://braeunig.us/space/propel.htm

Offline

#10 2019-01-26 17:34:52

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,702
Website

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

elderflower mentioned in-orbit refuelling has been practiced for years on ISS. Probably in response to my post. However, SpaceX and anyone in USA has not done it, and no one has done it with LCH4/LOX. There may be issues with cryogenic propellant transfer: chilling tanks, boil-off due to pressure changes, etc. And when I've talked to Boeing engineers, they talk as if on-orbit (in-orbit) propellant transfer is extremely difficult, almost intractable, even with storable propellants. Russia has done it since Salyut 6 was launched in September 1977, but Boeing feels they still can't do it. Time for SpaceX.

Offline

#11 2019-01-31 22:34:04

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,531
Website

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

The Russians have done storables for many years now,  and before ISS.  They did it for Mir and the Salyuts.  The Chinese will be doing it,  too,  since their stuff is based on Russian designs.  Maybe NASA has learned from the Russians,  and maybe not.  They certainly should have,  by now.

If you can do one hydrazine,  you can do any of them. Same goes for the long-term storable oxidizers NTO and IRFNA.  And kerosene is just as easy.

I have my doubts about hydrogen peroxide,  not for the transfer,  but for the long term storage stability.  Some claim to have solved that problem,  which goes back to WW2.  Others say it's not true.  Myself,  I dunno.  And because I dunno,  I say don't try that one yet. 

Nobody has yet done any cryogen transfers in space.  Not ever.  If Spacex pulls this off with its new BFR/BFS system using LCH4-LOX,  they'll be the first.  Which they have to do,  if BFS is ever to leave Earth orbit. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-01-31 22:35:42)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

#12 2019-02-01 19:00:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,619

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

Build with what works and when you can show that something new can be done safely then we can switch over with the new stuff having the next big changer to make use of.

Offline

#13 2019-05-20 20:34:00

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,840

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

SpaceX and Blue Origin should take up President Trump on his offer.  Nobody will even know that an extra $10B to $20B is missing.  All of humanity would be immeasurably better by focusing attention on what lies before us, rather than what lies behind us.  Our entire solar system is always waiting there for us, whenever we decide to stop killing each other and explore it.  The latter, I believe, is infinitely more interesting than the former.  America should always endeavor to venture first to strange new worlds.  We can only grow by leaving the cradle of life, learning from the mistakes we make along the way, however painful, to ultimately to take our place amongst the stars.  In any event, I'm sure DoD has at least that much stuffed underneath a sofa cushion somewhere that they've completely forgotten about.

Offline

#14 2019-05-20 20:46:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,619

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

So far only putting up money for the SLS to the moon with another 1.6 billion to speed it up....

Offline

#15 2019-06-07 20:17:34

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,702
Website

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

Donald Trump tweet today

@realDonaldTrump wrote:

For all of the money we are spending, NASA should NOT be talking about going to the Moon - We did that 50 years ago. They should be focused on the much bigger things we are doing, including Mars (of which the Moon is a part), Defense and Science!

Offline

#16 2019-06-07 21:24:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,619

Re: Trump Promised Unlimited Cash To Complete Manned Mars Mission By 2020

Seems that he has grown impatient.. Had posted about this in the Apollo 11 redux topic as well...

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB