South of the Border Politics

kbd512 · 2019-04-27 17:55:48

GW,

What I stated about what the Democrats are doing is based upon their own statements about what they're doing. If they're lying about what they're doing, then I'm only repeating what they say they're doing. If they're telling the truth, then everything I said about what they're doing is spot on. In either case, what you're really doing is characterizing their own statements about what they're doing as falsehoods.

We have one of the most generous immigration policies in the world. That is a statement of numerically verifiable fact. We let more people into this country than any other country in the world. That's why our population keeps growing. I'm not in favor of stopping that, so long as everyone who comes to America becomes an American. I am in favor of someone imposing a yearly numerical limit. If everyone from everywhere else in the world decided that they wanted to be Americans tomorrow and showed up at our doorstep, America would cease to be America and would turn into something else. What is the limit? How many people can we absorb in a year? Such decisions are way above my pay grade, but there needs to be a limit- if only as an admission that economics and the ability to provide for people are real tangible concepts that require actual solutions.

Pretending that anyone who insists that immigrants follow our immigration laws must be racist is an absurdity. Since you live out on a farm, I know for fact that in my neighborhood I live amongst people with a wider range of ethnicities than you do. Hell, I work with more people from a greater number of countries than you do every day I go to the office. I don't give two shits and a rusty damn about their skin color. I only care about how individual people behave. Furthermore, I could care less what someone looks like if they commit a crime. If anyone thinks they can show up at my house and point guns at my family and get a pass because we share the same skin color, they're gravely mistaken.

My wife and I are currently trying to bring her sister over from Viet Nam. We have to prove we can support her, that she can support herself by obtaining gainful employment, and we've been waiting more than a decade now. She's busy learning English while these foreign flag wavers come here in droves. We're also tax payers who have been paying taxes our entire adult lives. I started paying taxes when I was 17 when I joined the Navy. I turned 18 standing sentry duty on the pier next to my ship before I was old enough to vote! Somehow we have to "wait our turn" while these supposed refugees flip the bird at our laws and pour over our border by the millions? No sir! There is such a thing as a right way and a wrong way to do things, whether you believe that or not.

My wife's sister is a corporate tax accountant for a well known Japanese company- working in Viet Nam, obviously. My wife and her sister speak English and love everything about this great country and idea called America. Are these really the people who need to "wait their turn in line" while other people who disregard our laws bum rush our Southern border? I think not.

If my wife and I have to follow the immigration laws, then so do these refugees. I don't care what their lives were like back home. They created the problems they're fleeing from by voting for the morons / communists who ruined their countries. Yes, I'm aware that not every moron is a communist, but all communists are morons. My wife and her sister were born into that communist hell hole. Yes, I'm also aware that "communist hell hole" is repetitively redundant. They never had a choice in the matter. Her father stayed to fight the communist goobers, that we're now militarily protecting from other communist goobers from China- one day we'll all have a good laugh over that one, after the US abandoned the fight against the communist cretins in Viet Nam. He was captured and tortured for a decade, and died from the multiple diseases he contracted from sitting in his own filth in a bamboo cage in a NVA prison camp, shortly after he escaped to America. Her father was a US citizen and held a PhD in psychology from an American university. Her uncle was a Colonel and a fighter pilot in the US Air Force and an engineer after he did his 20 and got out. Shortly before her father died, he told his daughter that he was content to die in a free country and that she was unbelievably lucky to be an American.

Let's reset the conversation here. Let's start with the following premises:

1. Our immigration system is totally dysfunctional and needs to be fixed, pronto.

2. Let's move past motives or personal beliefs and only consider the results. I'll do my best to follow this ground rule if everyone else will.

3. The more names I get called for having the gall to believe that everyone else who comes to America should have to follow the same laws I do, the less reasonable I become and the more I question if what they're telling me is more about their ideology rather than anything approaching a feasible solution.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-27 17:59:09

The current status of fear is causing backlash on the people which have come here Some Immigrants Choose Between Food Stamps and a Green Card even when coming here lawfully.

SpaceNut · 2019-05-01 19:55:46

Trumps even changing policies along the border is now wanting for those seeking assylum to pay a fee for wanting to be pertected. Asylum seekers waiting to get into the U.S. sleep in small tents set up by the border, depending on volunteers and churches to bring them food and clothing. Some scrape together 25 cents to pay a toll to get on an international bridge where they can use a bathroom.

The proposed application fee and other changes are the latest in a series of proposals from an administration struggling to cope with a surge of migrant families arriving at the southern border. The migrants have overwhelmed federal resources and complicated Trump's efforts to claim victory at the border as he runs for re-election next year.

The fee proposal was part of a memo Trump signed Monday directing his attorney general and acting homeland security secretary to take additional measures to overhaul the asylum system, which he insists is plagued by "rampant abuse." It said the application fee would not exceed the cost of processing applications, but officials did not immediately provide an estimate for what that might be.

Asylum claims can take several years to work their way through the courts, the families must be released into the United States to wait for their case to be resolved by an overwhelmed immigration court.

Trump is giving Homeland Security Department officials 90 days to come up with new regulations to ensure that applications are adjudicated within 180 days of filing, except under exceptional circumstances. He called on officials to immediately revoke work authorizations when people are denied asylum and ordered removed from the country. He also wants to bar anyone who has entered or tried to enter the country illegally from receiving a provisional work permit.

What this all means is Trump will need to use what is still remaining of DACA and Sanctuary cities to allow for the time to process and obtain information for those that are seeking assylum.

Of course Trump still has 7 Billion taken for constructing walls but thats not being used for where it is needed. In fact Trumps administration will need to ask for more funds to fix what he screwed up....

Sixty-four percent (64%) oppose Trump declaring a national emergency in order to build a wall without congressional approval; On asylum, just 30% support stricter rules.

SpaceNut · 2019-05-19 20:25:06

The latest in over crowding is leaving those in custody helpless.. Stepping up to the plate is Bikers bring 30,000 meals to migrants at New Mexico facility; About 25 bikers arrived in Las Cruces Friday to unload pallets of meals from Pack Away Hunger, a nonprofit that distributes instant meal pouches.

The arrival of about 25 motorcycles Friday afternoon announced the donation of 30,000 non-perishable meals for migrants being processed at the former U.S. Army Reserve Center on Brown Road. They arrived without announcement, and with the help of migrants, who immediately lined up to assist, the meals were unloaded in minutes. Volunteers unload non-perishable meals donated by Pack Away Hunger at the former U.S. Army Reserve Center in Las Cruces, where migrants released from federal custody are being processed. Friday, May 17, 2019.

SpaceNut · 2019-05-24 19:30:00

Funds were takenfrom disaster relief, military and several others for an executive order to build a wall but when it comes to congress wanting to complete a bill for more funding for immigration its just not getting in as GOP congressman temporarily blocks $19 billion disaster bill Friday, extending a tempest over hurricane and flood relief that has left the measure meandering for months which have been made worse over the last few weeks.

Texas Rep. Chip Roy, a former aide to Texas firebrand Sen. Ted Cruz, complained that it does not contain any money to address increasingly urgent border needs. The international emergency and humanitarian crisis we face at our southern border needs a new direction of policy. This bill started in the senate with $4.5 billion request for dealing with a migrant crisis on the U.S.-Mexico border for more wall and did not deal with any of the issues.

The worst of this is the children which as stuck and not getting to be support as a family learning and being taken care of but instead they are being held in a cell format which is harmfull to them.

SpaceNut · 2019-05-26 18:21:30

A border wall away from keeping illegals out is not going to and never was the solution as Miami Coast Guard crew intercepts 50 Haitian migrants who were on a makeshift boat

kbd512 · 2019-05-27 14:02:30

While a few dozen people may arrive via raft, we have thousands pouring across that land bridge every day. The more difficult the journey, the fewer the people who attempt it. Shocking, but true.

SpaceNut · 2019-05-31 19:27:51

Bullying and now tarriffs means once the wall is up will make a bad neighbor in the long run. Mexico Says It Will Negotiate with US Over Tariff Threat

kbd512 · 2019-05-31 20:45:08

SpaceNut,

I thought we already had a thread on tariffs.

GW Johnson · 2019-06-01 11:09:00

What's racist about the immigration thing is not wanting any immigrants with brown skin at all. This is a population that looks different (and tends to vote different) from GOP-run white America. It's the same racist thing that got started in 1840's Texas: Anglo vs Hispanic. We've seen it before. The existing laws are abused to lower the number of brown-skinned immigrants. Simple as that.

Most (but not all) these immigrants coming up from Central America are families and individuals fleeing from violence, poverty, and oppression. They are every bit as deserving of a chance to immigrate legally, and to become productive citizens of the US, as was Kbd512's Vietnamese wife, or my own half-Japanese wife (a naturalized citizen as an infant).

The crisis at the border derives directly from denying these refugees entry to make their case. Simple as that. It's racism that abuses and misuses the laws to get what it wants instead. These people have the legal right to cross and ask for asylum. Not necessarily to get it, but to cross and ask. And they are being denied, detained, and deported, instead. That law DOES NOT CARE where they cross that border, and that's a fact, Jack, no matter how it is loudly denied for political purposes.

This is distinct from the combined negligence and racism that for 7 decades left legal work permits factor 10-to-100 out of balance with demand, thereby creating a population of about 11 million illegal alien residents within the US.

Both problems need resolving. But the more critical has become the detained refugee problem: we are now killing them with inadequate facilities and staffing. We send troops and barbed wire instead, to "look good" politically. This need not have happened. It is the result of a racist policy that has manufactured a now-lethal crisis.

Is not killing people for political purposes an evil? Can we not agree upon that?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-06-01 11:12:17)

Terraformer · 2019-06-01 11:47:44

This is a population that looks different (and tends to vote different) from GOP-run white America.

There is nothing racist about not wanting your political opponents to import voters. Get rid of democracy, then you can have as many immigrants as you want.

SpaceNut · 2019-06-01 11:58:11

Nationalism and genocied comes to mind if democracy is extinguished....

kbd512 · 2019-06-01 12:43:18

GW,

Is not killing people for political purposes an evil? Can we not agree upon that?

That's a very good question. Anyone who hasn't already been brainwashed by communists should already know the answer.

Do you actually agree with your own supposition that killing people for political purposes is evil?

Maybe you should figure out why it is that so many people are fleeing those South American communist dictatorships.

It couldn't be that communism / pure democracy / mob rule is pure evil and mass murders its own people for political purposes, could it?

Assuming you have any intellectual curiosity about why this is happening now, maybe you should conduct a quick review of the politics of the people facilitating the entry of these illegal aliens into the United States. You'll find that many of them are members of our very own communist party. I wonder why that is. Actually, I don't, because I already know the answers that have come out of their own mouths, but I don't think you've connected the dots yet.

It couldn't be that communists the world over want to make mass murder at the hands of other evil communists inescapable, could it?

My belief is that the world doesn't need anymore mob rule / communism, especially here in America. That's caused more mass murder than all the racist ideologies of the 20th century, combined, ever managed to commit. Then again, the racist nazis were also socialists. So anyone spouting off socialist or communist ideology also supports racism or mass murder or both.

SpaceNut,

Pure democracy, which is mob rule, always leads to mass murder. All pure democracies devolve into mob rule. Always.

GW Johnson · 2019-06-02 22:03:37

Kbd512:

Actually, I pretty much agree with you. I just find lots of fault with both parties here at home. Most folks find fault with only one or the other.

I never understood why the world seemed to say the communists were "far left" while the Nazis (and the Fascists in Italy) were "far right".

To me, it ain't a straight line, it's a circle. There's not an effective dime's worth of difference between them, bunched together on the far side of that circle the way they were/are. State-controlled economies that were oppressive police-state dictatorships. Across the circle from what we wanted to be.

But then, my models for understanding the world were always a little different than anybody else's. You probably already know that.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-06-02 22:12:29)

SpaceNut · 2019-06-04 17:44:20

The illegals that turn them selves in are now at risk of deing as a result of the system being so overwhelmed.
Transgender woman migrant who had been in ICE custody dies after falling ill drawing new scrutiny to a facility that has faced allegations of mistreatment of gay and transgender detainees.

The courts have sided with Trumps use of the military funds which were for infrastructure building for the wall.
Private group that was putting up wall has been stopped.
Trump is still asking for more wall money and a bill with no wall money has been sent for disaster relief...

SpaceNut · 2019-06-05 19:16:31

Congress has taken a step even if its eventually veto'd House OKs immigration bill to protect ‘Dreamers,’ provide path to citizenship

DREAM Act, an ambitious expansion of a nearly two-decades-long legislative effort that would place millions of young undocumented immigrants and immigrants with temporary status on a pathway to U.S. citizenship. The proposal would grant young undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children, including those shielded from deportation by the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, an opportunity to acquire permanent lawful status if they meet certain requirements.

The legislation — spearheaded by Reps. Lucille Roybal-Allard, Nydia Velázquez and Yvette Clarke — would grant DACA recipients and other young undocumented immigrants conditional U.S. permanent residency for 10 years if they meet certain criteria. To be eligible, immigrants must have been younger than 18 when they came to the U.S., and must have lived in the U.S. continuously over the previous four years. They must also have an American high school diploma or GED and pass a background check. Those who have committed serious crimes would be ineligible.
To be placed on a pathway to citizenship under the bill, these young immigrants must earn a college degree or complete two years of a degree program in an institution of higher education or technical school. They would also qualify if they served honorably in the military or have been employed in the U.S. for more than three years.

SpaceNut · 2019-06-05 21:14:23

Here is that obstructionist mcconnell-senate-will-probably-not-vote-on-dreamers-bill

SpaceNut · 2019-06-07 17:17:43

Trump plans to declare new national emergency to impose tariffs

The draft document signals the White House believes that imposing the tariffs under the February emergency declaration might not pass legal muster.

As seen from the border wall money emergency...which is not the only crisis which was needed to be solved and all or nothing was Trumps single approach to the problem.

A flawed immigration system, flawed assylum seeker laws, multiple amnesties over decades with only DACA put in place for a path to citizenship, a system that does not have enough man power to work the system of capture, process and care for while cases are being heard. With the all in on a wall to slow the numbers but to what level when you still can not do anything with the other issues....

SpaceNut · 2019-06-07 19:40:18

A boder deal may have been struck but only time will tell. Mexico, in turn, has agreed to take strong measures to stem the tide of Migration through Mexico, and to our Southern Border.
Trump calls off tariffs on Mexico after deal on migration

The U.S. Labor Department reported on Friday that job growth slowed sharply in May and wages rose less than expected, raising fears that a loss of momentum in economic activity could be spreading to the labor market.
U.S. business groups were generally opposed to the tariffs, warning they would raise costs for companies and lead to higher prices for American consumers. Trump's fellow Republicans were also not keen on the prospect of a two-front trade war.

https://nypost.com/2019/06/11/trump-ins … th-mexico/

SpaceNut · 2019-06-08 16:04:52

We know that this is not how it will be Schumer mocks Trump: 'I'm sure we won't be hearing any more' about illegal immigration

Even if all of the illegals went to zero the fact is nothing has been resolved....also that would prove a wall is not needed if that happened.

SpaceNut · 2019-06-10 17:56:38

The House has appealed McFadden's ruling which said the House lacked standing to bring the challenge and that he did not believe the court should step into the fight between the President and Congress. So now its onto the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

Trump's choice to move funds for the wall violated the Appropriations Clause of the Constitution, which gives Congress power over the designation of federal spending.

Odd how fake news on Trump's new trade deal fixes what he broke but changes very little

The reality is Texas border town feels stress of Trump tariff threat against Mexico where 30 percent of the population is at or below the poverty level.

Not good that
24 immigrants have died in ICE custody during the Trump administration but then again California lawmakers agree to health care for adults in U.S. illegally which if this is well care thats fine as we do not need more dieing in custody....

SpaceNut · 2019-06-11 20:33:28

Our border is a government cotrol location and not a private one so there is going to be more border battles when private groups try to be the government. Government agency forces open private border wall gate

Congratulations on Fixing the Border, Mr. President! Not....

More threats to assert executive privilege to shield documents Justice Dept. to Congress: Back off contempt process, or Barr will ask Trump to shield census documents

What a joke it is to prove citizenship and yet they try to deport american citizens quite often for not having identification on them...

Just how many forms of citizenship proof do we need to prove we are american.....

SpaceNut · 2019-06-19 20:21:28

Game on as Trump kicks off 2020 campaign at orlando rally with a continuation of his pledge Trump's vow to remove "millions" of undocumented immigrants shocks advocates

More than 70 million people now fleeing conflict and oppression worldwide

SpaceNut · 2019-06-22 19:54:22

This is laughable in that Trump Delays Immigration Raids, Giving Democrats 'Two Weeks' To Reform Asylum Laws with anything coming out of the House will not see the light of day in the Senate...

SpaceNut · 2019-06-23 20:06:30

From El Salvador to Texas, navigating the US asylum maze

Its bad when the lawyers can not figure the process out to protect the ones that do need it....

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Re: South of the Border Politics

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