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#1 2019-05-19 14:11:53

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,717

Drowning deaths of Children

Homes that have a pool or hot tub on the premises have death rates amongst children at the residence that range anywhere between 4 and 25 times higher than death by guns, but don't let those pesky child mortality figures from the CDC get in the way of a good argument about why it is that we need to leave more American children defenseless against the criminal element of this world whenever the parents or our governments are unwilling to discharge their responsibilities to protect our children.

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#2 2019-05-19 17:46:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,049

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

The death rate when conflaged with all topics helps none get any changes to cause or to lowering the rate for any of them.

You could lump even not getting virus anti bodies into that number as thats its own topic as well for children dieing needlessly. So does the needless death rates due to abortions but thats another seperate issue as well with a different cause and system to get them lowered.....

Reduction of all means seperate solutions to each....not pointing fingers

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#3 2019-05-19 18:37:19

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,717

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

SpaceNut,

I know it must be terrible to the gun grabber's various arguments when their "facts and figures" are compared with other causes of child mortality, but it does put their entire line of argumentation into perspective by using the other mortality numbers that CDC very studiously compiles.  The gun grabbers don't care at all about anyone's children, much less reducing the number of "gun deaths", and they never have.  They're just another example of a fringe group within a specific political party with a similar unhealthy interest in trying to "control" other people by disarming them so that future unscrupulous political ideologues from that party can then commit mass murder without fear of reprisals from their subjects, and at rates that make those "dangerous guns in civilian hands" look quite tame by way of comparison.

Between 1999 and 2018, drownings not related to boating accidents were just over 67,000 (national average is ~3,532 per year vs 1,368 per year for guns).  I think the boating accidents only add something like 300 to 350 to the drownings figure.  During that same time frame, guns were responsible for killing around 26,000 children.  So far as I'm aware, there's no national campaign to ban pools and hot tubs.  Then again, why would there be?  We very clearly don't care about children and never have.  So, why is it that we should care about something that killed half as many people as backyard swimming pools and hot tubs?

As long as the gun grabbers' line of argumentation involves taking things from people who have never committed any crimes, then I'm going to point out what's so obvious to me, as someone who comes down on the other side of this issue.  It's just another government-sponsored theft, and at gunpoint no less, as if there wasn't already enough irony involved from people purporting to want to stop violence.

When those here who claim to care about children also demand action against people with pools and hot tubs, then I'll believe that they care at all about children.  I already know that they won't because they don't.  Nobody "needs" a pool in their back yard.  Sound familiar?  It does to me.  Until I see the people demanding legislative action to stop something that results in the deaths of twice as many kids per year, I won't believe that they're after our guns for anything other than nefarious or even criminal purposes.

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#4 2019-05-19 18:58:21

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,049

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

Drowning is the second leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among children ages 14 and under. Since 1999, an average of more than 815 children ages 14 and under have died as a result of unintentional drowning each year.

or

Eighty-four percent of drowning deaths among children ages 5 and under occur at a home, while 45 percent of fatalities among children ages 5 to 14 occur at a public pool. From 1990

As varied as the age of the deaths there is just as many circumstances for what and how these deaths occurred.

So focusing on those age 10 and under would mean pools need child fencing and proof gates to keep them out.

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#5 2019-05-19 19:04:49

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,717

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

SpaceNut,

When will we have a national campaign to ban unattended residential pools and hot tubs?

For me to believe that our Democrats actually care about children, I need to see some national media coverage of the incredible number of deaths from drownings in home pools and hot tubs and some moms demanding action.  Twice the number of child deaths per year as guns, yet I never here a peep about that.

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#6 2019-05-19 20:05:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,049

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

We may be the united states but its the states that must do so and even the towns or cities in the counties which must demand it to happen with regards to the building permits and regulations. Sure it would be good if the federal government would do so but I would not hold my breathe.

Currently only half our government is Democrats and even if its passed in the house the republican senate will not take up the bill and it dies there....

The executive order could be written but is that an over stretch of law as it deals with personal or private property?

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#7 2019-05-19 20:33:24

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,717

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

SpaceNut,

The same people who wish to write laws forcing people to turn in their firearms quibble over property laws regarding swimming pools?

Given their arguments about The Second Amendment only applying to the militia, I don't seem to recall the Amendment to our Constitution protecting the private ownership of swimming pools, either.

I'll either get some logical consistency from these people demanding that free men and women hand over their firearms to our government on the never kept promise of protection from our government, or I'll conclude that they have none to offer.

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#8 2019-05-20 04:37:34

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,012
Website

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

There's nothing in the Constitution about a right to keep and drive cars. Given the numbers of children sacrificed to America's automobile obsession, I really don't understand why the anti-car lobby isn't a lot bigger.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#9 2019-05-20 14:33:29

JoshNH4H
Moderator
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,501
Website

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

Hey kbd512,

I take it you have called up your local, state, and federal representatives to ban pools then, if you feel that they are killing so many children?

Anti-car urbanist here btw, cars do kill and we should have less of them.

Incidentally it is already much harder to get a driver's license than a gun license.


-Josh

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#11 2019-05-20 18:44:32

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,717

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

Josh,

I'm not the one in favor of banning everything that I don't like.  I have little to no use for a bicycle or a motorcycle, but I'd never be in favor of banning those, either.  I just want to see a little logical consistency from the people who claim to care about kids, quite possibly because they demonstrate so little of it in their simpleton solutions to complex problems.  Despite my qualms over abortion being used to deal with the natural consequences of having sex, I'm not even in favor of banning abortion... because... wait for it... there's a utility for everything under the Sun, even if it has little to no utility for me.  What a concept.

Simpletons: Fire burns!  Let's ban it!
Me: Derp!

Anyone who can't figure out that driving requires paying attention to what you're doing, fire is capable of burning, allowing a crazy person to have access to absolutely anything that could be used as a weapon is an absurdly bad idea, or that guns can put holes in things that probably don't need an extra hole in them, well, those things are obviously not for them.  If you have no use for something, it doesn't mean it has no utility to someone else.  Shocking, but true.

Edit:

Did you have to go through a FBI background check to get a driver's license or buy a car?

Was there any possibility of going to federal prison if you didn't pass the background check?

Last edited by kbd512 (2019-05-20 19:20:20)

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#12 2019-05-22 17:04:05

JoshNH4H
Moderator
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,501
Website

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

I ask this as someone who genuinely does not know:

Under what circumstances could failing the NICS background check result in a person going to prison? Are there any recorded cases of this happening?


-Josh

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#13 2019-05-22 17:41:36

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,049

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

It can and does if you purposely enter false data....

Summer has not started yet and we have already had Girls, 2 and 3, nearly drown in swimming pool

https://www.edgarsnyder.com/statistics/ … stics.html

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#14 2019-05-22 18:45:26

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,717

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

Josh,

Ask and ye shall receive:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives - Pittsburgh Man Sentenced to Prison for Falsifying Firearms Purchase Forms

If one example from the BATFE's own website isn't enough, just let me know.  There's a whole lot more where that came from.

Use your Google-fu and search for "man goes to prison for falsifying firearms purchase forms".  Perhaps you'll make it through all the cases sometime during your 10th reincarnation.

One of the few good things that AG Sessions did when he was in office, unlike AG Holder or AG Lynch, was to begin seriously cracking down on federal firearms violations referred to the US DoJ for prosecution.

Federal Gun Prosecutions Up 23 Percent After Sessions Memo

Any more questions about the NICS check?

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#15 2019-05-23 11:08:16

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,012
Website

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

I don't think "falsified forms" is quite the same as "failed a background check".


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#16 2019-05-23 14:56:57

JoshNH4H
Moderator
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,501
Website

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

Maybe I'm wrong about this but I bet it says right on the form that lying is a federal crime, punishable by (whatever the penalties are) under U.S.C. (legal designation whatever).

Then I'm sure there's also classes of people who fail their background check because they have outstanding bench warrants against them or are otherwise on the run from the law--people who shouldn't be able to purchase guns and people who ought to comply with their warrants.  Sure, it's extremely dumb to submit personally identifying forms to the FBI if you're a fugitive from the law, but in a nation of 325 million there's plenty of dumb criminals out there.

If it were the case that it was a federal crime for someone to try to buy a gun who doesn't pass a background check, I would be against that since there's no way to find out if you can legally try to buy the gun without trying to buy the gun.  I don't think that's how this law works, though.

I myself don't own a gun and have never really wanted to.  I think it would probably be better if there were fewer guns in the country.  The murder and suicide rates would probably be lower if it were harder to get machines designed to be effective at killing.  Most murders are crimes of passion, and most people who attempt suicide and fail don't try again; there's not "good guys" and "bad guys" out there, really.  I guess there are bad guys, but the good guys sometimes get angry or drunk too.  No personal guns would be fine with me: I have no issue with the idea of repealing the second amendment, and if solid majorities of the country were on board I'd say let's go for it.

We live in a democracy, and people have and like their guns for lots of reasons, many of which are valid. I'm fine with letting people keep their guns while curbing some of the excesses of the current gun regime: Universal background checks would be a good start, and banning the 2 or 3 specific kinds of guns that can be used to kill a bunch of people at once pretty easily would be another good thing to do. It might be a good idea to enforce titles for guns (or certain kinds of guns) the way we do with cars, where you need the piece-of-paper legal document, and you need to get a new one when it changes hands.


-Josh

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#17 2019-05-23 16:56:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,049

Re: Drowning deaths of Children

Gun topic is Advice to parents on school options

Will copy those post to it

Back to the discusion of deaths of children drowned in a pool of water....

The issues are lack of law requiring safe guarding measures to keep children out, this could include along with fences and gates sensors, alarms and even hard pool coverings...

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