Dr. Zubrin Calls On Congress To Begin Trump Impeachment Proceedings!

EdwardHeisler · 2019-04-25 19:21:27

Robert Zubrin

"The data is the Mueller Report clearly require the initiation of impeachment proceedings. The House needs to do this without regard to considerations of which party this might benefit in the 2020 elections. It is a matter of duty. All members of Congress have sworn to uphold the Constitution. Now they are required to act on that oath."

https://www.facebook.com/robert.zubrin. … 1556233836

EdwardHeisler · 2019-04-25 19:25:43

I think Congress should wait until they uncover all of the money laundering and other financial corruption of the Trump crime family.

Let's see all of their tax returns, financial statements, banking information. Trump Foundation, foreign business interests, tax evasion, etc. That's what Trump and his family are really worried about being exposed.

kbd512 · 2019-04-25 20:00:46

EdwardHeisler,

If this latest plan should also turn up nothing, then what?

Should the Republicans treat the next Democrat President the same way? Should they use the Justice Department to falsely allege that a crime took place when two separate investigations found no such evidence? Since Democrats claim to be so interested in "fairness", I really think they should. Let's punish anyone for the "crime" of being elected to office and substitute whatever we believe about them for any tangible evidence. That's always turned out so well in the past. Not!

It's a shame that someone your age applies such childish thinking to matters of this importance. The Democrats lost one Presidential election. From their reaction, you'd think the world had ended. Nearest I can tell, we're still spinning around in space at fantastic speed. Perhaps it's time to accept that the 2016 Presidential election is over and focus energy on the 2020 elections.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-25 20:43:25

I actually had to see if my old account still would work on my clunker of a machine and it did.

First post in the topic are the words from the facebook post by Dr. Zubrin and not those of EdwardHeisler....

The second was Edward's thou...

EdwardHeisler · 2019-04-25 21:21:56

The first investigative report turned up a lot of evidence that certainly warrants removal from office for obstruction of justice and failure to comply with the oath of office to defend and protect the Constitution.

But that's just a little slap on the wrist.

If Trump and members of his family are indicted and found guilty of criminal business activities and tax evasion they should be sent to prison.

How can any true patriot disagree with that?

Last edited by EdwardHeisler (2019-04-25 21:44:12)

kbd512 · 2019-04-25 21:50:11

The only thing President Trump "obstructed" was the commission of a federal felony on the part of former FBI Director Comey, former Deputy FBI Director McCabe, former DNI Clapper, and the Clinton Campaign. When the FBI lies to a FISA court judge to obtain a warrant to spy on a political rival under false pretenses, those people are, in point of fact, engaging in a conspiracy to defraud the federal government of the United States. No fraudulent politically-motivated witch hunt that ensues should be lavished with the pretentiousness of the term "judicial investigation". The Democrats committed a string of felonies, realized they weren't going to win the Presidential election, and scrambled to point the finger at President Trump for the crimes they committed. It was brilliant... Except now the charade is over.

So, can we indict the people who brought us the Russian collusion hoax while we're at it?

How about the former Secretary of State who stole classified information from the US State Department and then attempted and failed to destroy the evidence after it was subpoenaed?

How about the former President who lied about communicating with the former Secretary of State who stole the classified information found on her illegal E-mail server?

How about the former FBI Director who leaked classified information to the media and usurped the authority of US AG Lynch to make a determination about whether or not to proceed with prosecuting the previous two criminals- the former Secretary of State and the former President?

How about the former AG who permitted BATFE to sell guns to drug cartel members that were later used to murder USBP agents, who was later censured by Congress for lying to Congress about it?

How about the Democrat Congressman who obstructed the IRS investigation into the criminal activities of Lois Lerner?

Does anyone disagree with that?

EdwardHeisler · 2019-04-25 22:00:32

Once again you have failed to provide the slightest bit of evidence to back up your conspiracy claims so they can be ignored by all serious people.

That's why so few reply to your long winded hogwash on political matters.

You still haven't figured that out.

Very Trumpian of you.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-25 23:11:17

Well the fact that Facebook is going to pay for the improper use and security issues is step that says what the report records.
Facebook sets aside $3 billion to cover data breach fine; The company said Wednesday it expected a fine from the Federal Trade Commission for sharing the personal data of 87 million Facebook users in 2015. Facebook expects $3B-$5B fine over Cambridge Analytica...

Remember the old AG Attorney General Jeff Sessions

Former attorney general Sessions urged Congress, and the country at large, to “accept the results” of special counsel Robert Mueller’s recently-released report. Sessions has said that the 22-month-long special counsel investigation, which concluded in March, was conducted "vigorously and with integrity."

Got a kick out of this article, The real problem with the Mueller report:

Mueller Report Reveals Trump’s Fixation on Targeting Hillary Clinton

Mueller report does not call out any use of FISA and even Trump said 2 months ago that he was going to release them... must have found out that they were truthful in content.

The email did not contain the marking as it failed to from the senders and the crime was not locking the room for where the computer could be accessed or its printouts would come into due to possible security content.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-25 23:40:17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Fast and Furious" started as a way to capture drug dealers in violent Mexican drug cartels. It ended as part of a scandal involving the Barack Obama presidency that had to be wrapped up following unnecessary deaths. President Obama had invoked executive privilege over those documents, marking the first time the privilege has been asserted during his presidency. In that case, called “Fast and Furious,” multiple sources say ATF allowed thousands of guns to hit the streets, destined for Mexican drug cartels. The House hearing, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) asked. Holder who authorized Fast and Furious. President Obama has previously said neither he nor Holder authorized the operation. With the ATF running a program to sell guns through middlemen to people in Mexico what would you expect to happen when things go wrong.

kbd512 · 2019-04-26 01:25:13

EdwardHeisler,

The Mueller Report would be that "slightest bit of evidence" substantiating my claims. I'll presume that these "serious people" you refer to give more weight to the findings of the Senate Judiciary Committee, the House Intelligence Committee, and the former FBI Director and Special Counsel, Robert Mueller, than the personal political beliefs of some random retired truck driver and a semi-retired rocket scientist when it comes to whether or not President Trump is guilty of anything. In all three cases, President Trump was cleared of the underlying charges.

Somehow our House Democrats are going to find what the IRS, FBI, Special Counsel to the US AG, Senate Judiciary Committee, and House Intelligence Committee all failed to find. Maybe Democrats can invent a new crime, just for President Trump, since they clearly can't get him on anything else. "We, House Democrats, hereby determine that President Trump is guilty of being himself and making us and our media cohorts look like the partisan fools we are and of making our media darling child, Hillary Clinton, look like the fool we always knew she was."

I tend to think few people reply because they're deathly afraid of having any of their beliefs, let alone their core beliefs, challenged in a logically consistent way. Few people want to introspectively examine the logic behind their own beliefs and far fewer still are willing to change their beliefs if their logic is found wanting. Basically, most of us might not like what we find. I'm constantly questioning my own beliefs and the prospect of having my beliefs challenged or even to change a belief is not an "end-of-the-world-scary" proposition. It's just a natural part of learning and not something to get upset about. To me, it's just another opportunity.

You've pre-determined that the other person is wrong / evil / insensitive / racist (whatever your mind can come up with to put the other person in a box so you don't have to actually deal with what they're telling you) and you're going to prove it to them by belittling them for daring to have a difference of opinion. That form of non-argumentation may work when used against other people who are equally unskilled at articulating what they wish to communicate, but it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

louis · 2019-04-26 02:13:02

Maybe explains the China trip...Hillary likes the Chinese Communist dictatorship. The Chinese Communists hate Trump.

EdwardHeisler · 2019-04-26 07:33:57

So now kbd512 has been reduced to knocking our President Robert Zubrin as a "semi-retired rocket scientist "!!!

What a desperate Trumpite he has become.

EdwardHeisler · 2019-04-26 07:39:22

louis wrote:

Maybe explains the China trip...Hillary likes the Chinese Communist dictatorship. The Chinese Communists hate Trump.

So will you now be joining the extreme right-wing minority here in personally attacking our Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin.

Why are these alleged "Chinese communists" endorsing and promoting capitalism in China and in the world?

They abandoned the Stalinist version of Marxism decades ago.

GW Johnson · 2019-04-26 08:24:13

Zubrin was trained as a mechanical engineer, specializing in nuclear reactors. He was not and is not a “rocket scientist”, his association with going to Mars (direct or otherwise) notwithstanding.

That being said, rocket performance estimation is simple enough that anyone can determine mission feasibility for this or that concept. It is easy enough to get bad answers by leaving out something you should have included, but if you have a good “shopping list” of things to calculate, and a toolkit of reliable calculation methods, you can do this as good as NASA, JPL, or anyone else.

I put a lot of that stuff up on my “exrocketman” site for anyone to use. Most of the basic stuff is in the article titled “Back of the Envelope Rocket Propulsion Analysis” dated 23 August 2018. There’s a lot of more detailed stuff about propulsion nozzles in the article titled “How Propulsion Nozzles Work” dated 12 November 2018.

The site is http://exrocketman.blogspot.com, and it has a by date and title navigation tool on the left. Click the year, then click the month, then click the title you want. The search keywords at the end of each article provide a filter to limit the content you see to only those articles sharing that keyword.

As for impeachment proceedings, that is precisely why Mueller went to the trouble of providing 400+ pages of documentation of what he found. And don’t forget, there are about a dozen-and-a-half other investigations still going on, some deriving from Mueller, the rest not.

What Mueller found with respect to conspiracy with Russia fell far short of the usual prosecutorial standards to bring an indictment. It’s not zero, but it really isn’t an offense, either. This is apparently because of a lack of deliberate intent to conspire.

What Mueller found with respect to obstruction of justice did not quite meet the usual prosecutorial standards to bring an indictment, because of (1) the crime didn’t actually occur because the underlings failed to execute Trump’s instructions, and (2) because there were likely motivations other than the “corrupt intent” that the law specifies.

Impeachment proceedings do not need to meet these prosecutorial standards. If they did, then Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon would not have been impeachable. They were (Nixon headed off his impeachment by resigning).

All that being said, Trump is certainly not the only one deserving of investigation, for sure. But he is the one with his finger on the nuclear trigger. That makes him the one to investigate first. And party has NOTHING to do with this!

That being said, I think the Republicans are at least as reprehensible in their behavior as the Democrats, if not more. There is almost no one left on Capitol Hill who can be trusted to do what is right for the country in priority over doing what is right for party or personal advantage. THAT is the fundamental problem facing us.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-04-26 08:29:43)

Terraformer · 2019-04-26 11:21:29

That being said, I think the Republicans are at least as reprehensible in their behavior as the Democrats, if not more.

Given that you've been almost entirely complaining about the Republicans, shouldn't this be the other way round? It doesn't make sense to say, "X is bad; that said, X is at least as bad as Y, if not worse."

GW Johnson · 2019-04-26 12:31:42

Terraformer:

Look, I agree with Kbd512 that Hillary Clinton should go to jail for mishandling classified material. Your “logical” argument is quite specious. Clinton’s classified data crime is just one of a whole lot of complaints I have about a lot of people from both parties, some quite serious.

Not the least of which is Mitch McConnell for failing to do his Constitutional duty to bring Merrick Garland’s Supreme Court nomination before the Senate, just because Barack Obama was a Democrat.

In the military, failure to do your duty is a court martial offense. I would have court-martialed him for that offense, if we were in the military and I was his commander. I think even Kbd512 might understand that sentiment, even if he disagrees with me about the details.

I think BOTH parties have been quite reprehensible in recent decades. Nevertheless, they are the only two credible parties that we have. It has been decades since I voted “for” anybody. I have been forced to vote “against” what I believe to be the greater evil, nearly 100% of the time, since the 1970’s.

I long for more of the statesmen we had (from BOTH parties) when I was very much younger. None were perfect, but the statesmen tend to do a lot more good than harm. I defy you (or anyone) to name one such today.

GW

Terraformer · 2019-04-26 15:15:46

Rand Paul?

GW Johnson · 2019-04-26 18:19:06

Nope. Most of his proposals would do more harm than good.

GW

SpaceNut · 2019-04-26 18:47:17

The primaries are more important now more then ever as its the only chance to get the better person the chance to get into office and not continue the choices of selecting the one that is less evil.

McConnel is being an obstructionist and should be impeached...

Sound simular...to other events
The mayor of a South Texas border city was arrested Thursday on charges that he orchestrated an illegal voting scheme in which he asked residents of nearby towns to change their addresses so that they could cast votes for him.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-26 19:25:43

Something to keep in mind is Rosenstein blamed the previous administration for doing too little to publicize Russia’s campaign to sabotage the 2016 election while it was underway, and he called out the F.B.I. and Congress for leaks about the case. He says that the previous administration chose not to publicize the full story about Russian computer hackers and social media trolls, and how they relate to a broader strategy to undermine America. Also unmentioned was how the Republican congressional leaders urged former President Barack Obama to keep quiet about the Kremlin’s operation during the presidential race.

kbd512 · 2019-04-26 19:26:42

GW,

Even if there was no intent on her part to commit a crime, which is dubious since she attempted to destroy the evidence after it was subpoenaed, at a minimum I would expect her security clearance to be immediately revoked for gross negligence in handling classified materials. Multiple foreign governments had access to her correspondence with former President Obama as a result of her actions. All communications between POTUS and any Secretary are automatically classified for a specified period of time. Maybe she gets a "get out of jail free" card because she's a politician and not a member of our national defense apparatus, but there's no way in hell she should just walk out of there like nothing happened and still retain her security clearance.

Unfortunately, we can't court martial politicians. That said, there's no doubt in my mind that America would be a very different country if we could. Good luck getting them to abide by the same rules as our military. I can't speak for anyone else, but you'd have my everlasting support for that idea.

GW Johnson · 2019-04-26 20:32:08

Kbd512:

Can't court-martial them, but I will offer this: before he died in 1965, my grandfather told me the tools for good government were tar, feathers, guns, and ropes. He said they still used them in his day (around and before WW1) and had decent government.

He also said that in my father's time (WW2 and just after), we Americans let the judges talk us out of using those tools, with the resulting bad government in my time (1965 when he said that).

My grandfather was a WW1 USN battleship sailor. Being of German/Danish ethnicity, he Anglicized his name after the sinking of the Lusitania in 1915. But I well remember the picture of a WW1 Dreadnought battleship he kept on the wall of his home when I was a tyke (although I don't remember the name of the specific ship).

I think he was dead-nuts right-on about the tools for good government. It's way past time to use those tools for good government again.

My guess is that you and I can agree wholeheartedly about that.

GW

PS: his wife (my grandmother) told me that when she was little girl in west Texas, two riders rode up one evening at their ranch home. They took water and supper, but did not stay the night. It was some years later before she found out who they really were: Frank and Jesse James, on their way to the New Mexico territory. "It's a small world after all", especially in the late 1880's.

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-04-26 20:40:27)

RobertDyck · 2019-04-27 09:07:24

EdwardHeisler wrote:

I think Congress should wait until they uncover all of the money laundering and other financial corruption of the Trump crime family.
Let's see all of their tax returns, financial statements, banking information. Trump Foundation, foreign business interests, tax evasion, etc. That's what Trump and his family are really worried about being exposed.

Actually, I suspect it's simpler. Trump lied about his net worth; he declared bankruptcy many years ago, and is still paying off debts from that. If other billionaires see his tax return, they'll realize he isn't one of them, they'll exclude him. But more importantly, if his creditors learn just how little he's worth, his creditors may try to collect. Then he'll be in real trouble.

RobertDyck · 2019-04-27 09:08:38

GW Johnson wrote:

Zubrin was trained as a mechanical engineer, specializing in nuclear reactors. He was not and is not a “rocket scientist”, his association with going to Mars (direct or otherwise) notwithstanding.

His Ph.D. is in nuclear engineering, but he also has a master degree in aerospace engineering.

louis · 2019-04-27 12:35:26

He's the one who's visited a one party state that currently has millions of its citizens locked up and being maltreated in horrendous concentration camps. Not me.

Being opposed to violent, one party communism is not the same as being "extreme right wing" unless you are some know-nothing like AOC.

EdwardHeisler wrote:

louis wrote:
Maybe explains the China trip...Hillary likes the Chinese Communist dictatorship. The Chinese Communists hate Trump.
So will you now be joining the extreme right-wing minority here in personally attacking our Mars Society President, Robert Zubrin.
Why are these alleged "Chinese communists" endorsing and promoting capitalism in China and in the world?
They abandoned the Stalinist version of Marxism decades ago.

Last edited by louis (2019-04-27 12:36:19)

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#1 2019-04-25 19:21:27

Dr. Zubrin Calls On Congress To Begin Trump Impeachment Proceedings!

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