Vaccinate Your Children!

GW Johnson · 2019-03-16 10:10:46

Kbd512:

Looks to me like you and I will never get Louis to change his mind, no matter how demonstrably wrong he is.

I looked up Prof. Exley on the web. The Wikipedia article confirmed where he works and in what field, and that he has made claims about aluminum poisoning and autism. Little else.

A Buzzfeed article names three colleagues working in the same field, cognizant of his aluminum work. All three claim Exley draws unjustified conclusions from too-sparse data: bad science. Pretty much the same path Wakefield took with his discredited and retracted paper claiming the mercury preservative in vaccines caused autism.

GW

SpaceNut · 2019-03-16 10:55:03

Aluminum was also pointed out in the plaque within the brains for Alzheimer's.

Link between Aluminum and the Pathogenesis of Alzheimer's Disease: The Integration of the Aluminum and Amyloid Cascade Hypotheses

Aluminum Linked to Alzheimer’s Disease? 7 Pieces of Evidence

louis · 2019-03-16 13:11:02

You're citing Buzzfeed by way of refutation! I am not surprised you didn't give a link since none of the below is refutation - character assassination, yes, but not refutation:

But Dorothy Bishop, a professor of neurodevelopmental biology at the University of Oxford, told BuzzFeed News that she would dismiss the study's results No reasons given. , while Jonathan Green, a professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at the University of Manchester who specialises in autism, told BuzzFeed News it was “absurd to draw conclusions” from the study. Why? No reasons given.

The main problem, said Bishop, is that the study lacks controls: It looked at no healthy brains to see whether they were different from the ASD-diagnosed brains. “You always need controls, because you tend otherwise to see what you expect to see, even if there is no deliberate attempt at fudging the data,” she said. “This point is the most serious, in my opinion, and would make me just dismiss the results.” Why on earth would you "dismiss" worrying results. Exley has not claimed his research was definitive or conclusive, simply that it backed an autism-aluminium link. It wasn't just to do with presence of aluminium but to do with where it was found .

Bishop said: “When you’re doing that sort of analysis you absolutely have to do it blind and have a set of control brains, and they didn't.” She said it was surprising that this study had been given access to the Oxford Brain Bank’s brains: “These brains are very, very precious and rare.” Clearly Bishop feels that a world renowned authority on aluminium toxicity shouldn't have access to such brains. This is typical of the anti-science views of pro-vaxxers, many of whom work for Big Pharma.

Exley told BuzzFeed News that suitable controls were unavailable, and that his earlier studies, done using the same technique, gave them “a very good understanding”. He added that he had taken steps to “find out how much aluminium could conceivably have been added by the process”. Poor journalism. Difficult to follow Professor Exley's response in context.

Second, the study didn’t mention how any of the donors died, which both Bishop and Green felt was relevant. “Clearly the cause of death is pertinent to brain findings and needs to be taken into account,” said Green. Exley said that none of them had died of causes which would cause him to expect them to have elevated aluminium levels, and that the reason he had not included the causes of death was to avoid the donors being identifiable. Both Green and Bishop felt that it should have been possible to include the relevant information in a nonidentifiable way. Nit-picking. Exley's study is a starting point. None of these broken-mouth critics have undertaken any work that shows Exley's findings to have been non-reproducable.

Prof Bishop appears to be a child development expert. She works on things like twin studies and gets geneticists to help her out. I get the strong impression she's never herself undertaken this sort of cellular work in the brain.

Howarth is an ideologue heading up the "Skeptics Society" in Liverpool as well as being a scientist. She has only 4 publications to her name (all as joint author). She has published nothing in the last 5 years as far as I can tell. She appears to have no expertise in metals toxicity (she works in the cancer field). She's hardly in a position to criticise Prof Exley.

Green is a psychiatry professor. Again, I don't see how a psychiatry specialist can possibly be in a position to assess Prof Exley's work.

This Buzzfeed article is worthless as science.

GW Johnson wrote:

Kbd512:
Looks to me like you and I will never get Louis to change his mind, no matter how demonstrably wrong he is.
I looked up Prof. Exley on the web. The Wikipedia article confirmed where he works and in what field, and that he has made claims about aluminum poisoning and autism. Little else.
A Buzzfeed article names three colleagues working in the same field, cognizant of his aluminum work. All three claim Exley draws unjustified conclusions from too-sparse data: bad science. Pretty much the same path Wakefield took with his discredited and retracted paper claiming the mercury preservative in vaccines caused autism.
GW

Last edited by louis (2019-03-16 13:26:58)

GW Johnson · 2019-03-17 09:29:16

Louis:

You misunderstand completely, again. I showed the "buzzfeed" source as an example of an uncontrolled internet source, not as a "formal refutation". It has exactly the same intellectual and credibility defects as the youtube video of Prof. Exley.

I wrote about this to show you how non-credible such sources are. You can literally find anything, to "justify" anything you want, on the internet. All but a tiny fraction are entirely non-credible.

If you want hard information about the medical effects and risks of vaccines, or pollutant exposures, or pretty much anything else, I very strongly recommend you consult the real, refereed science journals, which are available on-line, and represent that tiny fraction of credible sources I mentioned.

Mistakes get made, sure, but they also get corrected. You simply cannot make that claim about youtube, or Ted talks, or the vast majority of that internet stuff. The peer review process has served us very well for some centuries now.

There are many such refereed journals: the medical societies publish several, AAAS publishes "Science", which I get as a member, and many more. If you want facts you can trust, go there.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-03-17 09:30:11)

louis · 2019-03-17 10:13:52

I don't know why* you are persisting in this character assassination of Prof Exley. He is a world expert on aluminium toxicity who publishes his research in prestigious journals which as far as I know all require peer review.

https://www.keele.ac.uk/aluminium/resea … osuretoal/

In your reference to the Buzzfeed article, you seemed to be taking it seriously claiming for instance that all three scientists worked in the same field as Prof Exley: they don't, none of them has any expertise in metals toxicity.

* Well I guess I do...

GW Johnson wrote:

Louis:
You misunderstand completely, again. I showed the "buzzfeed" source as an example of an uncontrolled internet source, not as a "formal refutation". It has exactly the same intellectual and credibility defects as the youtube video of Prof. Exley.
I wrote about this to show you how non-credible such sources are. You can literally find anything, to "justify" anything you want, on the internet. All but a tiny fraction are entirely non-credible.
If you want hard information about the medical effects and risks of vaccines, or pollutant exposures, or pretty much anything else, I very strongly recommend you consult the real, refereed science journals, which are available on-line, and represent that tiny fraction of credible sources I mentioned.
Mistakes get made, sure, but they also get corrected. You simply cannot make that claim about youtube, or Ted talks, or the vast majority of that internet stuff. The peer review process has served us very well for some centuries now.
There are many such refereed journals: the medical societies publish several, AAAS publishes "Science", which I get as a member, and many more. If you want facts you can trust, go there.
GW

GW Johnson · 2019-03-17 10:24:52

No character assassination intended, Louis! What I am trying to communicate is that you are jumping on early results as a finished product. That's a mistake.

"We are carrying out research to understand how humans might be exposed to aluminium and how such exposures might be estimated and any effects revealed."

I quite agree with that statement. Somebody definitely needs to be doing this research. Exley has found some unexpectedly high aluminum amounts in some but not all, the samples he has investigated. He rightly publishes papers that essentially say "there is reason to suspect a risk here".

But, drawing conclusions about cause-and-effect is premature until somebody not associated with Exley or his team, duplicates his results, and shows a repeatability to it.

Look at the cited references. Virtually all are Exley, no one else. His results have not yet been duplicated independently, nor has repeatability been established, at least not by that citation list.

The premature ballyhoo about "we know the cause-and-effect for this-or-that disease" is what I object to. The scientific process needs to run its course first.

Not doing the whole process as thoroughly as possible is how the Thalidomide disaster happened. Something I remember very well.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-03-17 10:28:28)

SpaceNut · 2019-03-18 20:22:56

ISS has a topic related and I just happened across this one. Drug-resistant superbugs may have found a new foe in the Irish soil
As antibiotic-resistant bacteria become more common and more deadly, but lot of the antibiotics we have now are so-called natural products.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-06 19:59:15

Deadly germs, Lost cures: A Mysterious Infection, Spanning the Globe in a Climate of Secrecy

Last May, an elderly man was admitted to the Brooklyn branch of Mount Sinai Hospital for abdominal surgery. A blood test revealed that he was infected with a newly discovered germ as deadly as it was mysterious.
Doctors swiftly isolated him in the intensive care unit. The germ, a fungus called Candida auris, preys on people with weakened immune systems, and it is quietly spreading across the globe.

Dozens have fallen ill during a (72 people) in five-state E. Coli outbreak, and nobody knows where it’s coming from

Measels had been declared eliminated back around 2000 but thats not true as Hundreds vaccinated since measles emergency declared in Rockland County

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea … 347503002/

SpaceNut · 2019-04-24 18:33:28

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/measles-ou … 019-02-01/

https://www.doh.wa.gov/YouandYourFamily … esOutbreak

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/heal … break.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/measles-ou … 019-04-22/

New cases in California, New York and New Jersey have pushed the unofficial total to 671.

kbd512 · 2019-04-24 18:38:58

We're watching "idiocracy" in action, folks. This is the predictable result.

SpaceNut · 2019-04-27 10:53:44

Measles is "one of the world’s most contagious diseases." It is airborne, and causes fever up to 104 or 105 degrees.
Trump versus Anti-Vaxx will you follow you leader even if you do not believe...

I have had both types of measels so I will not need to get any vacinations for this unlike Chiken pocs which even if you have had them might require a booster so as to not get shingles.

Trump urging people to get measles shots is a welcome shift; now he must aggressively fight anti-vax fake news

As 10 States Cope With Measles Crisis Top Trump Official’s Anti-Vaxx Wife Issues Call to ‘Bring Back’ Deadly Diseases

louis · 2019-04-27 12:31:08

1 in 59 children diagnosed with autism - epidemic shows no signs of abating.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news … paralyzed/

May I suggest that is a much greater cause of concern for children's health compared with a childhood disease which nearly all healthy children deal with perfectly well. Assuming a population of 40 million for children aged 0-18 that will be 670,000 children with a significant lifelong disability with huge implications for their future happiness and life prospects. How much is the MSM media interested in this issue? Not at all...you'll be hard pressed to find any reports except those trying to argue there is no autism epidemic (you won't find a paediatrician who agrees with that).

GW Johnson · 2019-04-27 13:53:35

Louis:

It's a fair bet to say that autism has some as-yet not-understood environmental-exposure cause (some kind of brain damage caused by the unknown exposure), but exposure to the common, long-used childhood vaccines is NOT it!

That's what the science actually says.

There may (or may not) be a genetic predisposition as well, and maybe some other pathway we haven't even thought of, who yet knows?

It's simply not about the risks of vaccines versus the risks of measles, that is a nonsense argument, given the actual science.

Whatever the cause of autism is, it simply ain't the common, long-used childhood vaccines. It never was. You REALLY need to recognize the truth of that.

That being said, I'd like to know what the true cause of autism really is, myself. Definitely needs research. Like so many other things.

Meanwhile, there should be NO legal excuses not to vaccinate against the childhood diseases with those well-tested vaccines. None at all, excepting only those very few who cannot tolerate the vaccine, for whatever reason, and only as certified by a (real) doctor.

Public health (by herd immunity) demands nothing less. PERIOD.

Myself, I wish they'd bring back the smallpox vaccine as a mandatory item. As long as those weaponized smallpox strains still exist in the germ warfare labs of the US and Russia, I think it stupid IN THE EXTREME to claim smallpox is eradicated!

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-04-27 13:59:55)

louis · 2019-04-27 14:30:38

If the state wants to make it illegal for parents not to subject their children to vaccination, well that's at least logical. I suspect they don't want to because there will be no way of dodging liability then.

I've no idea what "causes" autism but I have previously quoted a world authority on aluminium toxicity who thinks there is a link (couple with genetic disposition) - he thinks he has identified potential mechanisms. If you think of the inflammation that occurs in many people a the injection site, if there is any mechanism by which such reaction could be induced in the brain, then it's pretty obvious there could easily be brain damage. Apparently the sorts of defence cells that are attracted to the injection site can also be brought into the brain for defence purposes, and could bring with them their aluminium load (which they acquire from their defence work at the injection site).

But on this occasion I am simply contrasting the hysteria over measles, which is very unlikely to kill healthy children (although of course it is evolving in response to mass vaccination, so who knows?) with the seeming complete lack of concern about autism.

GW Johnson wrote:

Louis:
It's a fair bet to say that autism has some as-yet not-understood environmental-exposure cause (some kind of brain damage caused by the unknown exposure), but exposure to the common, long-used childhood vaccines is NOT it!
That's what the science actually says.
There may (or may not) be a genetic predisposition as well, and maybe some other pathway we haven't even thought of, who yet knows?
It's simply not about the risks of vaccines versus the risks of measles, that is a nonsense argument, given the actual science.
Whatever the cause of autism is, it simply ain't the common, long-used childhood vaccines. It never was. You REALLY need to recognize the truth of that.
That being said, I'd like to know what the true cause of autism really is, myself. Definitely needs research. Like so many other things.
Meanwhile, there should be NO legal excuses not to vaccinate against the childhood diseases with those well-tested vaccines. None at all, excepting only those very few who cannot tolerate the vaccine, for whatever reason, and only as certified by a (real) doctor.
Public health (by herd immunity) demands nothing less. PERIOD.
Myself, I wish they'd bring back the smallpox vaccine as a mandatory item. As long as those weaponized smallpox strains still exist in the germ warfare labs of the US and Russia, I think it stupid IN THE EXTREME to claim smallpox is eradicated!
GW

GW Johnson · 2019-04-27 14:46:46

Louis:

Exactly where (and how much) is the aluminum in a childhood vaccine like MMR or DPT?

Mercury in the thimerosal, yes, but NOT aluminum! And that level of mercury is far less than in amalgam-type tooth fillings, which have demonstrated NO HARM for 500+ years.

So your argument falls apart.

Face logic. It ain't the vaccines, it's some other exposure.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-04-27 14:48:04)

louis · 2019-04-27 15:37:46

For those interested...

Aluminium is in the adjuvants used in most vaccine preparations. It's a v. v. small amount but it's enough to cause often quite severe cell death and inflammation at the injection site. (As I understand this is the whole point of the adjutants, to stir an immune response.)

Christopher Exley was the expert I was referencing. Here are a couple of helpful links:

https://www.keele.ac.uk/research/resear … events.php

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 2X17308763

And the article below has the following:

"The cell death which is a consequence of the toxicity results in an inflammatory response and this is the origin of the swollen red tissue at the injection site almost immediately following vaccination."

https://www.hippocraticpost.com/infecti … -vaccines/

GW Johnson wrote:

Louis:
Exactly where (and how much) is the aluminum in a childhood vaccine like MMR or DPT?
Mercury in the thimerosal, yes, but NOT aluminum! And that level of mercury is far less than in amalgam-type tooth fillings, which have demonstrated NO HARM for 500+ years.
So your argument falls apart.
Face logic. It ain't the vaccines, it's some other exposure.
GW

Last edited by louis (2019-04-27 17:10:58)

SpaceNut · 2019-04-27 15:47:16

I guess the question for some is; if you were not vacinated and died from them as a child from a parent that knew better how would you think the parent would feel them after years of having that child around to care for?

Sure the death rate might be low from catching measels unprotected but its one that should not happen at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/

Contains death rate data
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/M … ideSet.pdf

GW Johnson · 2019-04-27 16:19:45

In my days as a child, there were few vaccines available. Smallpox was available, and polio became available as a shot (not a sugar cube) as I entered 1st or 2nd grade (many of my contemporaries contracted polio, including my cousin, now deceased). I had the shots. My mother-in-law was a smallpox survivor (a low percentage were survivors).

I had the diseases measles, rubella, and mumps, all separate vaccines in those days, now the single MMR vaccine.

There was also available in my time a diptheria (whooping cough) vaccine, so I was spared that (my father nearly died from it).

Tetanus was a shot you had to repeat every few years. Diptheria, polio, and tenanus are now one vaccine: the DPT. However, every decade or so, you still need a new tenanus shot if you get injured enough to bleed significantly, and also get dirty. My last came after I was sliced open by falling across a barbed wire fence, just a couple of decades ago.

As a child, I had the chickenpox disease twice (the first time was just not severe enough to trigger the immunity), but I recently got the newest shingles shot, because I absolutely DO NOT WANT to get shingles! That's what chickenpox does, late in life, for about 33% of those who suffered it, like me.

I also had one of the two different kinds of measles things twice, but I do not remember if it was measles or rubella (German measles). No longer a problem. I had both those diseases. Not at all a pleasant experience, despite the fact that I lived through them. And the mumps.

There was a tuberculosis vaccine available when I was in grade school. Some of us had to take that shot twice before the reaction was severe enough to confer immunity. It leaves a scar at the injection site, if immunity is actually conferred. If memory serves, I only took it once (I only have one scar). Another cousin of mine had to take it twice to get the immunity. She has two scars, one on each arm.

MMR, DPT, smallpox, tuberculosis. Why would you ever NOT want to take them? NONE of these cause autism, regardless of any inflammation, scarring, or anything else, at the injection site! Therefore, not to take them is just utterly STUPID.

PERIOD!

You get more aluminum from using an aluminum cooking pan, than from ANY of these vaccines! Most of my cooking pans have been steel, but not all. I have been exposed to some number of aluminum cooking pans throughout my life. No brain damage yet. That argument is therefore quite demonstrably specious.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-04-27 16:29:10)

kbd512 · 2019-04-27 16:32:57

GW,

Thank you for telling it like it was, before modern medicine gave us all these gifts in the form of prevention / vaccination. My grandmother was a nurse in Chicago the 1950's. She saw entire families wiped out by Polio. I still recall the heartbreaking story she told of one mother. The woman said to her, "This is my last one, can I please have him back." Sadly, her last child died from Polio shortly thereafter. She had 8 children and not a single one survived to adulthood. As a young mother herself, she spent a lot of nights crying herself to sleep. She was utterly powerless to stop any of it. She said that when the Polio vaccine finally became available, mothers lined up with their children for blocks on end.

Yes, it really was that bad. That was America in the 1950's, within living memory of old timers such as yourself. Let's not relive the past. There was nothing all that great about it. Failing to vaccinate your children against these crippling or outright lethal diseases is madness.

louis · 2019-04-27 17:27:25

You don't seem to read the links I post.

Aluminium in food and from aluminium pans is taken in through the digestive system. The digestive tract and associated organs have been evolved over millions of years to deal precisely with that sort of toxin.

We have not evolved to deal with subcutaneous injection of such toxins in a highly concentrated, albeit small, amount. And Exley has shown (a) there is a high concentration aluminium in the brains of autistic individuals he examined and (b) there is a mechanism by which aluminium could travel from the injection site to the brain.

The inflammation at the injection site is a sign of how even only an extremely small amount of toxic aluminium can cause a relatively large effect. Imagine that effect in the brain of a young child with a genetic predisposition which makes them vulnerable to that happening.

My grandmother had polio. That has always been a quite devastating disease. I am not against vaccination. Just opposed to anti-scientific closing down of rational, open debate on the balance of health costs and health benefits. There have always been health costs associated with vaccinations. The early polio vaccine caused cases of paralysis and had to be withdrawn. Pretending it's all benefit and no cost is just not credible.

[I wrote that polio has "always" been a devastating disease but discover that "Major polio epidemics were unknown before the 20th century; localized paralytic polio epidemics began to appear in Europe and the United States around 1900." (Wikipedia, confirmed by other sources). ]

GW Johnson wrote:

In my days as a child, there were few vaccines available. Smallpox was available, and polio became available as a shot (not a sugar cube) as I entered 1st or 2nd grade (many of my contemporaries contracted polio, including my cousin, now deceased). I had the shots. My mother-in-law was a smallpox survivor (a low percentage were survivors).
I had the diseases measles, rubella, and mumps, all separate vaccines in those days, now the single MMR vaccine.
There was also available in my time a diptheria (whooping cough) vaccine, so I was spared that (my father nearly died from it).
Tetanus was a shot you had to repeat every few years. Diptheria, polio, and tenanus are now one vaccine: the DPT. However, every decade or so, you still need a new tenanus shot if you get injured enough to bleed significantly, and also get dirty. My last came after I was sliced open by falling across a barbed wire fence, just a couple of decades ago.
As a child, I had the chickenpox disease twice (the first time was just not severe enough to trigger the immunity), but I recently got the newest shingles shot, because I absolutely DO NOT WANT to get shingles! That's what chickenpox does, late in life, for about 33% of those who suffered it, like me.
I also had one of the two different kinds of measles things twice, but I do not remember if it was measles or rubella (German measles). No longer a problem. I had both those diseases. Not at all a pleasant experience, despite the fact that I lived through them. And the mumps.
There was a tuberculosis vaccine available when I was in grade school. Some of us had to take that shot twice before the reaction was severe enough to confer immunity. It leaves a scar at the injection site, if immunity is actually conferred. If memory serves, I only took it once (I only have one scar). Another cousin of mine had to take it twice to get the immunity. She has two scars, one on each arm.
MMR, DPT, smallpox, tuberculosis. Why would you ever NOT want to take them? NONE of these cause autism, regardless of any inflammation, scarring, or anything else, at the injection site! Therefore, not to take them is just utterly STUPID.
PERIOD!
You get more aluminum from using an aluminum cooking pan, than from ANY of these vaccines! Most of my cooking pans have been steel, but not all. I have been exposed to some number of aluminum cooking pans throughout my life. No brain damage yet. That argument is therefore quite demonstrably specious.
GW

Last edited by louis (2019-04-27 17:40:11)

kbd512 · 2019-04-27 18:40:58

Louis,

I want people to be alive and healthy to have debates with. I think the best way to do that is to use our medical tools to prevent crippling or lethal childhood diseases. I can't debate medical science with dead children.

SpaceNut · 2019-05-24 19:03:56

Measles Outbreak: CDC May Impose Temporary Flying Ban On Infected People

GW Johnson · 2019-05-31 11:58:37

From CBS News website: seen 5-30-19, copied 5-31-19 ---

Russian Twitter trolls have attempted to fuel the anti-vaccination debate in the U.S., posting about the issue far more than the average Twitter user last year, a study out of George Washington University has found. The "sophisticated" bots shared opinions from both sides of the anti-vaxxer debate, which took the U.S. by storm and prompted tech companies to crack down on the spread of misinformation surrounding vaccinations.

In the study, professor David Broniatowski and his colleagues say the Russian trolls' efforts mimic those used in the past. Such trolls ramp up controversial issues in the U.S. by inflating different viewpoints, the study says.

The U.S. is in the midst of the worst measles outbreak in the country in 25 years. Health officials say misinformation and anti-vax messages have led more people to avoid vaccination, allowing the disease to spread.

"These outbreaks are due to the anti-vaccine movement," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, told CBSN AM in January, when the outbreaks were beginning to gain steam.

He stressed that the vaccine has been scientifically proven over many years to be safe and effective in preventing measles. However, some parents still refuse to vaccinate their kids.

One of the main reasons anti-vaxxers refuse vaccinations is that they incorrectly believe they cause autism. As part of an effort by several large tech companies to cut out the spread of vaccine misinformation, Amazon began removing books that promote supposed "cures" for autism.

Facebook also said it would crack down on the spread of vaccine misinformation by de-prioritizing medical myths across the platform, taking action against verifiable vaccine hoaxes, the company said. Misinformation will now appear less frequently in News Feeds, both public and private pages and groups, search predictions and recommendations, according to Facebook.

According to Axios, however, misinformation about vaccines is not the only threat, as Russia is focusing on spreading misinformation around health care issues ahead of the 2020 election.

Not only did Russia fuel the anti-vaccination debate, they have also spewed unverified information about 5G wireless technology. RT, a U.S.-based Russia-backed TV network, reported that new 5G technology was linked to cancer, autism, Alzheimer's and other health issues, The New York Times reports. This had a real-world effect, with smaller blogs and websites picking up RT's false stories and sharing them as fact, the Times said.

In February 2018, special counsel Robert Mueller charged 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities with crimes related to a campaign to sow disinformation and division in the U.S. in the run-up to the 2016 election. A so-called "troll factory" in St. Petersburg set up to influence U.S. voters was to blame, according to the indictment.

The trolls were paid to ridicule Hillary Clinton online and fan the flames of divisive issues in the U.S. While evidence suggested the troll factory's American operations slowed down between 2016 and 2018, Broniatowski's study suggests trolls are alive and well in Russia — and now they're pitting Americans against each other over issues of health.

First published on May 30, 2019 / 6:03 PM

--- Note: both RT (Russia Today) and Sputnik are known outlets operated by Russia, legally within the US. They mix real news with propaganda and fake news, in order to appear credible.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-05-31 12:00:04)

louis · 2019-05-31 12:37:48

"They mix real news with propaganda and fake news, in order to appear credible."

Bit like BBC America then...

GW Johnson · 2019-05-31 17:23:22

Dunno about BBC America, Louis. That's a cable TV-only channel.

I live on a farm in rural Texas. I get my TV as broadcast over an old-time antenna (something the satellite and cable guys do not want people to know still works, but it does ***). Just about all the channels that antenna of mine picks up are HDTV, but I don't get the cable stuff.

I get a far different mix, including a lot of stuff cable (and satellite) doesn't carry. Most stations broadcast 2 to 4 channels with different content. BBC America just ain't one of those.

GW

*** digital TV changed the coding superposed upon the unchanged FM carrier waves, same as from the late 1940's. Antennas do not care about the coding, only the FM carrier wave. Your TV cares about the coding, not the antenna.

There's people marketing "free TV antennas" these days, but they are not as good as the old-time rooftop antenna whose design I have been using for 32 years now out here on this farm. I've replaced units from weather and aging damage, but all pick up broadcast TV, period. Digital, analog, no difference.

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-05-31 17:31:48)

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#95 2019-04-27 17:27:25

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

#96 2019-04-27 18:40:58

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

#97 2019-05-24 19:03:56

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

#98 2019-05-31 11:58:37

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

#99 2019-05-31 12:37:48

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

#100 2019-05-31 17:23:22

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

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