New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#126 2019-02-17 17:37:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

More job loss and businesses due to the long standing tariffs.
Payless ShoeSource is closing all of its 2,100 remaining U.S. stores

Which was for brick and mortar stores as many were on the slide due to rising costs, internet sales which are now taxed; so I am sure they have slowed...

Offline

#127 2019-03-06 18:43:46

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Offline

#128 2019-04-07 07:33:10

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Offline

#129 2019-04-08 20:05:27

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Offline

#130 2019-04-13 20:56:06

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Store closing seem to be the rage these days as markets are changing. The home goods chain has struggled to compete with traditional retailers such as Walmart and Target, as well as online retailers Amazon ad discounters like TJ Maxx and its HomeGoods arm. So hearing that Bed Bath & beyond closing would not come as a surprise as closing 40 stores this year due to a loss in profits last year — and that number could grow but expect to open approximately 15 new stores in fiscal 2019.

Here is the shocker in that More than 6,100 stores are closing in 2019 as the retail apocalypse drags on — here's the full list

Offline

#131 2019-05-05 20:10:44

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Of course the fight is sill on with Trump proposes raising tariffs to a total of 25% on $575 billion in Chinese goods

This is a fight that Trump is not winning and even the other deals have not been taken up for the same reason....

Gas prices at the pump have continued to go up and when all other items cost more with that the economy stalls and then takes a dive....

Offline

#132 2019-05-06 20:09:55

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

I really hate to pick on you SpaceNut, and I know that you struggle.  I don't feel happy about your need to struggle so much.  However, I would like to present an alternate view of what has been stated.

Here is some background on what the administration is up to and why:
https://twitter.com/PeterZeihan

The reality of the situation per oil and natural gas is that we have a bonanza.  All we have to do is let people in Texas, and North Dakota, and I think more for Natural Gas, certain eastern areas, chase after what they want and out comes low cost oil an gas.  Lower than OPEC and Russia want it to be.  In Texas, I understand that they now have to pay to get rid of natural gas.  Of course efforts for more pipeline routes will come.  And an export industry.  But I understand that our Natural gas is the cheapest in the world perhaps.

As for China, and inflation.  Umm...They are not set up very well anymore at this time.  Mexico is closer, has better trained labor and is lower cost.  And the whole world is going deflationary.  A real bad deal deflation.  You want an inflation of 2 to 8 percent if the stock market is to be a good place to invest.

One way to induce inflation would be from the FED.  But in this case if you put tariffs on products coming in from overseas, you then can also induce some inflation, and induce North American production of similar products.  And stimulate the stock market in the long run, and essentially force your targets to give concessions, such as not strong arming you to give them your technological secrets.  And perhaps you can induce them to get rid of some of the blockages they put into place to keep our products out of their market.

We do not want to import too much deflation from the world.  A certain amount is OK, as then we get lower cost goods, and they get to sell us widgets.  It can be mutually beneficial, but it is a process to regulate with a set point of tolerance.

We do need to become mercantile again.  Free trade with China was just done as a bribe for them to help us contain the Soviet Union, which they actually came close to war with at one time.  It was also convenient for the powers that be to destroy the so called "Rust Belt", and Unions as well.  But that is all history.  I made it through the process OK.  Not so much bitterness in me about it.  But I do understand how unkind it was to the northern American populations.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-05-06 20:26:22)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

Offline

#133 2019-05-13 20:28:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The war is on again Trump to meet Xi after defiant China slaps U.S. with new tariffs

China will raise tariffs on $60 billion in U.S. goods in retaliation for the Trump administration’s latest decision to increase duties on $200 billion worth of Chinese products.

We are the only ones that will lose in this....

Another couple of business have folded in the local area...and in the long run that means property owners will be paying more in taxes to make up for the business losses plus more for goods and eventually services.

Offline

#134 2019-05-13 20:52:57

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,889

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

If my math is correct, 25% of $60B is $15B in losses and 25% of $200B is $50B in losses.  Sure, we'll lose some trade, just not as much as China stands to lose.  If your trading partner flatly refuses to play by the rules, are you still obligated to continue trading with them when such a small percentage of your economy, as a total percentage of GDP, is devoted to international trade?

We still support policies that are ultimately put American workers on a level playing field, don't we?

Bleeding out money from trade deficits, however slow a process it has been, will ultimately result in economic death.

Besides, why should the Chinese government be permitted to treat their workers like virtual slaves just so we can buy cheap crap at Wally World?

Offline

#135 2019-05-14 20:59:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Here is the only reason Trump believes China tariffs will help him win reelection even with  Five ways the trade war will hurt American shoppers
As you meantion in the above post percentages are not the only piece to Why the US-China trade war could be long and painful: No off-ramps its going to get bad...it looks like the farmers will see the fail first. Either in planting a crop that they can not sell or in a crop that will not get harvested.....

Offline

#136 2019-05-15 00:48:04

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,889

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

We're in for a bumpy ride, but I still haven't heard what it is that you propose we do to get China to play by the rules.  They just ignore whatever rulings the WTO makes, so the only remaining option available to America is either banning Chinese imports or imposing import tariffs- which is precisely what the Chinese were already imposing on American made goods imported into China.  If the Chinese are willing to starve their own people to continue to fleece American corporations, then it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out why it is that I so despise communists.

You want jobs for American workers, right?  Well, guess what?  In order for American workers to produce products that remain cost-competitive in a global marketplace, one of our largest trading partners can't have trade deals that put American workers at a gross disadvantage.  As someone who believes in free trade, I don't like import tariffs at all.  That said, you tell the rest of us what your alternative would be to get China to play by the rules.  The WTO has zero influence over Chinese trade practices, so that's already a non-starter.

If our own people care at all about their continued ability to remain gainfully employed, then maybe they should start buying some American made products.  It's not a mandate that every last product made has to be "Made in America", but we have a very large work force that needs to be employed and it's not as if we're incapable of making our own products.  There are still a slew of products made here in mass quantities, most of which are of good quality and reasonably priced.

Offline

#137 2019-05-15 17:09:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Product that is given a tarrif that does not have a base in what they pay for wages, hazard regulations, power, subsidize, child labor law infractions that are over looked, sweat shops as working slaves, ect will never be corrected by a tarriff taxation on imports as they will sell to others and we will look for the next nation that sells products cheap with as much the same issues.

If you buy an imported cd player you barter one from your nation in like kind trade... Not cash values which can be made up.....

Made in America only works when the value and quality are equal for the cost. If a dollar tree usb cord for $1 lasts as long or longer than the $6 plus USA made one then you loss as it does not equal the quality. and its over priced....

Offline

#138 2019-05-15 21:04:00

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,889

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

China isn't changing any significant part of their poor treatment of their own citizens right now.  Unless there's an unavoidable penalty that they have to pay for refusing to play by established international rules governing trade, which includes reasonably equitable trade with their trading partners and better working conditions for their own workers, then their government will continue what they believe to be a winning strategy, despite the fact that we, and most of China's workers, find such behavior to be unacceptable.

Bartering is not a realistic way to do international level trade.  Money is a fungible asset, whereas specific goods and services are not.  If I have no use for a CD player, then I'm not going to trade a ton of corn for a CD player.  That's why we created and use currencies with a pre-defined / accepted value.  We must have a fungible asset to use to exchange goods and services, especially at a global scale.  Bartering may have worked in the past when economies were small and most of what was on offer was needed by most of the people within a community.  For example, bartering may work for foodstuffs and beverages and medicines traded within a town or even a city.  All high technology items are nearly useless to people who don't need them.  A concrete company can't reasonably trade a few tons of concrete and the services of a cement truck and foundation pouring crew for iPhones or iPads to use to calculate how much concrete a particular slab requires.

The reason the USB cable costs $1 when it's made in China vs $6 when it's made in America is because there's little to no thought given to poisoning the people or their environment, the quality of the materials used is quite often as low as it can possibly be and still produce a usable product and sometimes it's so poor that the product isn't usable for long or is hazardous to use, which is even worse, and the workers in the factories are paid what would be completely unlivable wages anywhere else because China constantly manipulates their currency to devalue it- which sets up a vicious economic cycle that keeps their workers in poverty.  They don't have to have precisely equal conditions with American workers, but the working conditions can't be so poor that the factory has to erect nets around the building to prevent their workers from committing suicide by jumping off the building.  Something is egregiously wrong if that happens on a routine basis.

Offline

#139 2019-05-18 19:59:18

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The agreements that so many cars are assembled, built in US plants give american jobs so what do you think would happen if those jobs were to go away?

Japanese car maker Toyota warns the President that 475,000 American jobs hinge on their presence

Toyota's operations and employees contribute significantly to the American way of life, the U.S. economy and are not a national security threat, as Trump has sited in his latest war on anything that is not Nationalistic....Trump’s proclamation that the U.S. needs to defend itself against foreign cars and components ‘sends a message to Toyota that our investments are not welcomed.’

Offline

#140 2019-05-19 08:42:01

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Here is a video, which gives some information that could be useful.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Pe … ORM=VRDGAR

I think it is very unlikely that we would drive Japans car manufacturing out.  I think that Japans words are counter posturing, which is to be expected.  In this video, there is some talk about Mexico, Canada, S.Korea, and now it seems that we are intending to make a deal with Japan.

And no I do not blindly accept everything Peter Zeihan projects.  Still his materials are interesting.

Done.


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

Offline

#141 2019-05-19 14:00:51

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,889

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

Where do you think Toyota is selling the cars that it makes here in America (their largest market, by far)?

Talk about an idle threat.

I don't like the fact that I can't continue to engage in unfair trade practices, so I'm going to shut down the most profitable portion of my business?

Ha ha.  Ok, Bert.

I'm sure GM won't get any more business if Toyota closes shop, either, will it?

People will just start walking if Toyota cars aren't available, won't they?

Hey, wouldn't that help address climate change?

Good grief.

Offline

#142 2019-05-19 17:57:14

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Ventured into the local Dollar tree to purchase about a 12 random items and then after walking out I looked at all of the labels to see if I could determine where they had been made...only to see that it was a 50/50 split of where they were made. I bet the same would hold true for any of the other Dollar generals or family dollar stores...

So if American can do that with those products what is stopping them for doing the same for all products up to that same featured automobile?

I own a ford currently, have owned GM, Chryslers, GMc's products and many more american made over the last 40 years of car buying. Only had one foreign made vehicle to use and that was gifted to me from an employer since mine was broken with credit ruined such that I could not get a loan for one....

Offline

#143 2019-05-19 18:56:13

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,889

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

We make lots of stuff here in America, even if most people don't know about it.  Curiously, my wife's relatives in Viet Nam always want things that were "Made in America", rather than goods that were "Made in China".  When questioned about why it is that they want such things, their answer is invariably that the goods that were "Made in America" last longer and have no poisonous byproducts when compared to the goods that were "Made in China".

One of the two Mazda vehicles we owned had to be shipped back to Japan to be repaired and the other required a team to fly into the dealership here in Houston... to figure out what I told them when I dropped the vehicle off for computer reprogramming- that the battery in the remote needed to be replaced before they began troubleshooting the other problems with the vehicle.  They were stunned when I started the vehicle after I replaced the battery in the remote.  That was enough for us.  Every GM vehicle we've purchased since then was Made in America.  My wife had something of a minor love affair with Japanese cars until the troubles we had with the last two cars, and the Honda Civic that also suffered from a series of problems, but now she won't buy another one.

Offline

#144 2019-05-19 19:58:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

During the 80's into the mid 90's the quality of american vehciles was just horrible and caused the lemon law to come about. Even until the mid 2000 the quality was slowly coming back but it was at a cost when compared to other vehicles and by 2008 they needed to be bailed out as vehicles that were being made were not what americans wanted. Its only after 2010 that hybrids were even and american product...

Offline

#145 2019-05-20 19:14:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Dressbarn is going out of business, to shut all 650 stores

The announcement comes amid a wave of store closures across the country this year. More than 6,000 closures have been announced so far in 2019 by companies ranging from Payless ShoeSource to Gymboree to Charlotte Russe, Victoria's Secret and Gap. That's more store closures than all of 2018, when 5,864 closures were announced over the duration of the entire year, according to a retail real estate tracker by Coresight Research.

Dressbarn, which has been around for more than five decades, has struggled to grow in apparel retailing as more women steer toward fast-fashion retailers like H&M and Zara, off-price chains like TJ Maxx and Ross Stores, and even Target, for clothes. Amazon also continues to take a larger share of the apparel market online.

Not good for stores and employment but still have places just not as near by to get product from.

Offline

#146 2019-05-20 19:21:33

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,889

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

For better or worse, online purchases from companies like Amazon is the way of the future.

Offline

#147 2019-05-21 19:14:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Offline

#148 2019-05-22 20:08:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Another sign of heading the wrong way in lowes earning indicate a slow down

Offline

#149 2019-05-23 17:48:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

one of the first to be hit by the tarriff war is getting help Trump's $16 billion aid package leaves few farmers happy

Offline

#150 2019-05-27 06:46:46

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,823

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB