South of the Border Politics

SpaceNut · 2019-02-06 18:15:39

Which way is the wind blowing as Trump wants all illegals deported and when they are found working for his business they lose there employment and now he wants more immigrants to keep coming....

Trump now says he wants more legal immigration

But then again all he wants is a wall, slats ,fence, barbed wire....so much so that he shutdown the government and forced people to work without pay....
Negotiators see deal within sight in talks to avert shutdown which would be great if it happens...

Here is the America that I know, not racism....
BBTgb6q.img?h=169&w=300&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1022&y=245

Elderly Couple Being Helped by 3 Young Strangers Is Captured on Video Seen 23 Million Times

SpaceNut · 2019-02-07 19:06:26

Pelosi has given the nod to the compromise bill and that would leave the next possible shutdown in trumps hands over a wall... Trump is likely to sign any border deal. He’s planning to build a wall regardless.
The president shut down parts of the government for 35 days but signed a bill to open the government until Feb. 15. Trump is willing to keep the government closed for “months or even years” until he gets all of the $5.7 billion to build all of the wall at the southern border.
Over course he has sent troops to hang more barbed wire and there are reports that some cities are seeing this as a risk to there own residents and want it down...

SpaceNut · 2019-02-08 21:48:22

The line starts in Costa Rica and ends in employeement at a Trump property. ‘My whole town practically lived there’: From Costa Rica to New Jersey, a pipeline of illegal workers for Trump goes back years

With no wall stopping these folks as they had faked papers....

I hear that the amount want by Trump is 7 billion for his wall but the compromise is coming in at 2 billion for the wall and more money for other items of need.

Congressional negotiators near border deal that would offer Trump less money for barriers than he has demanded

GW Johnson · 2019-02-09 10:40:27

Fences and walls in and near cities make sense, as they help to funnel crossers to the real ports of entry. The illegal crossers tend to concentrate at the ends, where you concentrate border agents to catch them.

The rest of the border really doesn't need fences or walls so much, because the geography and climate are so hostile. You just watch for the crossers. And catch/rescue them before they die in the hardship. It takes a lot of agents and equipment to do that. Walls and fences don't replace them, because walls and fences are so easily defeated by the much cheaper-to-acquire ropes, gloves, shovels, bolt-cutters, and saws-alls.

There are too many illegal guest workers for the agents to catch, because our quota for legal guest worker visas is set factor 10+ too low. Fix that to free up border agents to do their jobs more effectively.

There sometimes are too many refugees seeking asylum for the border agents to handle, and certainly too many for the number of immigration judges we employ. Instead of making it harder to get an immigration hearing, we should make it easier, and hire a bunch more judges. That also frees up a lot of border agents.

The smugglers of drugs and people are the bad guys. If you free up a bunch of border agents, by fixing those other two problems right, then they can handle the smugglers far more effectively, who are not nearly as numerous as illegal guest workers. Besides, you largely put them out of the people-smuggling business, if you fix the guest worker problem correctly. Most of the drugs come through ports of entry already.

Most of the California and Arizona stretches of the border are already fenced or walled. According to the reports, the walls and fences there don’t stop the crossers. That’s proof of what I claim: walls are too easily defeated.

There’s just a very short border of New Mexico with Mexico, and it is already mostly walled. That’s right adjacent to El Paso, Texas, were the border along the Rio Grande is already fenced and walled.

The rest of the Texas border is river, sometimes through desert canyons in mountainous country, sometimes through more accessible valley country. It becomes not-desert only in the last few hundred miles towards the Gulf.

The vicious desert country is its own deterrent. No need there. Down in the lower Rio Grande Valley, most of the land on the US side is privately-owned. A majority of that is not much of a problem with crossers, and most of those would disappear anyway, if we solved the guest worker problem correctly.

To build a wall there requires condemnation of private land by eminent domain, and is wildly unpopular with the great majority of Texas landowners. That process would take years of court proceedings just to acquire the land. Which means most of your budget goes to lawyers, not wall construction.

All of which shows that staffing up to solve the guest worker problem correctly (and the refugee problem) is not only cheaper than building fairly-ineffective walls, it’s also years faster.

Given that situation, why would anyone believe in, or support, this political propaganda fantasy about a border wall from sea to sea being “the answer” to our problems? Such makes no sense at all.

The frequent repetition of that lie does NOT make it true! Nor does coming from the White House make it true!

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-02-09 11:17:57)

SpaceNut · 2019-02-10 19:40:55

Now a national emergency of his own creation in that he must protect his troops...
Talks Over Border Security Break Down, Imperiling Effort to Prevent Shutdown

WH wants to reduce the beds for those captured when if they are found to have a criminal past to send them on there way...
Trump proported number is now up to 7 Billion from the 5.7 and thats all wall to build all of it...

SpaceNut · 2019-02-11 19:54:15

Fact check: Trump claims a wall made El Paso safe. Data shows otherwise.

190208-el-paso-al-1422_a5f393a9a2565b391cd537c4b0708fa1.fit-760w.jpg

Get ready as there might be another shutdown
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/as-border- … -shutdown/

SpaceNut · 2019-02-12 20:27:00

California loses border wall challenge at appeals court

Judgement was about Trump administration waiving environmental rules to speed up construction of prototypes and replacement of the U.S.-Mexico border wall.

The appeals court case argued in Pasadena in August revolved around whether the Homeland Security secretary had authority to waive dozens of laws including the National Environmental Policy Act and Endangered Species Act. Reviews required by those laws can often delay or derail projects.
The administration has issued several waivers to build sections of border wall in California, New Mexico and Texas. Lawsuits opposed to some of those projects are pending, but legal challenges to such barriers have failed over the years amid national security concerns.

So when will they do the impact studies on the enviromental impact?

The waivers were for eight prototypes built in San Diego and 2 miles (3 kilometers) of replacement fencing completed in downtown Calexico. Construction is almost complete on one 14-mile (23-kilometer) section of barrier in San Diego and work is about to start on another of the same length.

Sure replace and repair but is there really a need for new?

Now rather than we will build a wall and make Mexico pay for it is now being rebranded to "Finish the wall"....shifted to declaring victory and claiming credit for the 654 miles of fencing constructed under his predecessors

SpaceNut · 2019-02-15 20:29:25

President Donald Trump has signed legislation to avert another government shutdown and pay for limited fencing along the U.S.-Mexico border.

The legislation gave Trump 55 additional miles of border fencing, well short of the 200-plus miles he wanted.

The legislation also keeps parts of the government from shutting down at midnight Friday by providing $333 billion to finance several Cabinet agencies through September.

Trump on Friday declared a national emergency at the southern border and is using his executive authority to tap billions of other government funds to build the wall. The illegal border crossings already down and critics accusing him of manufacturing a crisis, he may have undercut his own argument that the border situation was so urgent that it required emergency action.

Trumps order grants access to billions of dollars that Congress refused to give him to build a wall there, transforming a highly charged policy dispute into a confrontation over the separation of powers outlined in the Constitution.

The president opted not to tap hurricane relief money from Texas or Puerto Rico, an idea that had generated angry complaints from Republicans. The Pentagon’s military construction accounts are a relatively small pot of funding — lawmakers allocated $10.3 billion for the current fiscal year for military construction and family housing projects. But key lawmakers have also warned that the infrastructure accounts are still recovering from years of tightened defense budgets.

Declaring an emergency in the absence of one is an affront to our constitutional system of government and the rule of law itself. Our southern border isn't facing an emergency, but our democratic institutions are. No president should ever be allowed to invoke "emergency" powers simply because they can't get what they want through the normal political process. That is a gross abuse of the Office of the Presidency and sets a dangerous precedent for future presidential administrations.

A key committee in the U.S. House of Representatives announced on Friday it was launching an immediate investigation into President Donald Trump's national emergency declaration, saying his move to fund his promised wall at the U.S.-Mexico border raised constitutional and statutory issues.

In a letter to Trump, Democrats who control the House Judiciary Committee asked the Republican president to make available for a hearing White House and Justice Department officials involved in the action. They also requested legal documents on the decision that led to the declaration, setting a deadline of next Friday.

"We believe your declaration of an emergency shows a reckless disregard for the separation of powers and your own responsibilities under our constitutional system," said the letter signed by committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler and other top Democrats on the panel.

FACT CHECK: Trump declares emergency with faulty claims

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps- … d=61102718

Terraformer · 2019-02-16 04:16:00

Well, maybe if Congress had been doing their job and actually debated all the "states of emergency" that have been declared over the years, they'd have greater standing. I don't see how they can debate this one and *not* cover all the other ones presently extant.

If Trump decides to implement glasnost, the entire Federal government will fall. Maybe he should. Let's not restrict our investigations to the sitting president. There's plenty of rot dating back decades that needs to be dealt with.

SpaceNut · 2019-02-16 10:38:19

People with some fencing has been doing the job but more people is all that was done to get a drop of those coming across.

The gradual build up and sampling of port of entry needs to be increased as well to slow the illegal drug and trafficing trades as well which require more people for that as well.

Creating just a 100% barrier does not stop the influx of either...

The barrier its self is a slow process as the land is owned by people that have rights to it. The US does not own that land and must show a just cause to land grap from those that own it.

Currently being ignored is that amounts of unspent funds for the barrier totalling just under a billion and with the recent 1.4 billion brings that account to 2 billion plus to build wall, fences, barriers ect..

So they were doing there job....

There is no emergency or we would declare one on National health, Climate damaged issues, infrastructure conditions, energy monopolies to the consumer, food security oh wait we removed regulations on that one which are now causing food desease out breaks, education reform so as to take the burden off the property tax....

This is a bad presidence king, tyrant, dictator... Trump with hand in the cookie jar...

SpaceNut · 2019-02-16 10:48:23

In the Russian language the word Glasnost, the policy or practice of more open consultative government and wider dissemination of information, initiated by leader Mikhail Gorbachev from 1985. It allowed citizens to clamor for better living conditions, more freedoms, and an end to Communism . While Gorbachev had hoped his policies would revitalize the Soviet Union, they instead destroyed it. Variously translated as "openness," "transparency," or "publicity," its root sense is public voice or speech. Freedom of speech...

Détente term is most often used in reference to a period of general easing of the geo-political tensions between the Soviet Union and the United States; it was the distinct lessening of the Cold War.It began in 1969, as a core element of the foreign policy of U.S. president Richard Nixon, in an effort to avoid the collision of nuclear risks. Two of the primary causes of the end of the United States' policy of detente towards the Soviet Union were the election of Ronald Reagan to the U.S. presidency in 1980 and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The policy of detente, an attempt to relax Cold War tensions.

This is to create a peaceful coexistance....

GW Johnson · 2019-02-16 11:21:06

The border between Mexico and both California and Arizona is already mostly walled, and was walled long before Trump decided to run. There is negligible border between Mexico and New Mexico, and about half of that was already walled, again long predating Trump.

The remaining unwalled border is Mexico-Texas. We already have miles and miles of walls at the border cities, again predating Trump. The rest is mostly private land, which requires condemnation by eminent domain to make it available for a government wall. That process takes years, and eats up most of the money paying lawyers instead of building anything.

So, just how stupid is that? Especially given that the majority of Texas border landowners do not want such a wall, and will fight vigorously any condemnation-by-eminent-domain in the courts.

What you are seeing with this fight is an immature, insecure, self-absorbed poor-excuse of a man in a high office, responding to the lies of the noxious gadflies of right/far-right public media, that crap being the only stuff he watches or believes.

He does not believe what the career public servants in the government agencies tell him, demonstrably not at all. Sometimes he believes his appointees, but only if they parrot the same crap he believes. We've seen it for 2 years now.

Since when do we Americans allow the likes of Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh to dictate government policy?

Come on, Mueller. Help us end this.

GW

kbd512 · 2019-02-16 12:34:47

GW,

If our southern border was already "mostly walled" before President Trump took office, as you claim, then merely completing the wall shouldn't be a particularly onerous task. The career civil servants, those charged with defending America's southern border, have been begging for a wall for years. Those are the only people I care to listen to in this matter since they're the ones getting shot at. If you feel so differently, then maybe you should take yourself and your rifle down there to see what they have to deal with every day.

Have you recently spoken to the majority of land owners on the southern border of Texas or are you projecting your own personal desires to keep the flow of illegal aliens coming into the US onto those who actually have to deal with the problem near our border?

Speaking of immaturity, it's amazing that you can't accept what you already know is coming. There was no "Russian collusion". Your religious beliefs about President Trump notwithstanding, our FBI knew their was no "Russian collusion" before President Trump took office. It's kinda sad that you can't accept what's so obvious to those of us watching one of our major political parties behaving like impotent children. Today's Democrat Party remind me a lot of the Republican Party under former President Obama.

Given the temper tantrum-like comments I've seen posted here, I think someone else also needs to learn to accept that not everyone agrees about the best way to secure the borders of our country. The constant personal attacks and derision towards someone you know nothing about and don't care to know anything about look a lot like a sign of immaturity to me. There's one thing I've always been curious about, though. If you believe so fervently in the brain droppings that the Democrat Party feeds everyone, why not just move to a Democrat-run state so you can live within an echo chamber that tells you exactly what you want to hear?

Americans such as Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh don't dictate anything to anyone. I'm sure it comes as an absolute shock to you that half the people in this country don't share the beliefs held by our radical regressive socialist Democrats. On that note, Rush Limbaugh is still alive? How old is he?

Yes, Mr. Mueller, please help us end this pitiful political charade orchestrated by the Democrats left over from the previous administration to distract everyone from the blatant criminality of the members of former President Obama's administration.

SpaceNut · 2019-02-16 13:50:40

The mueller topic has that within it.

I have already in this topic given the amounts of walls and barriers already built that covers the length of the border and even given images of where its not. I have even given why the wall is not complete and what delays the building even when they have the money to do so.

What has not been done is creating of outposts along the stretches that have not been built to staff people for the security portion of the wall with barbed wire to control just how open its not....

Terraformer · 2019-02-16 15:31:24

Well, with luck the government will be able to seize El Chapo's billions. Mexico, or at least a Mexican drug lord, may end up paying for the wall after all.

SpaceNut · 2019-02-16 16:09:49

Siezing the billions can be done if in electronic banking form and not so easy in a mattress or in property in another nation...

What you are reffering to is the comment by Ted Cruz says billions in assets tied to 'El Chapo' should fund the border wall

The Texas Republican introduced the Ensuring Lawful Collection of Hidden Assets to Provide Order (EL CHAPO) Act in April 2017, which calls for the use of the $14 billion seized from the cartel drug lord to be used to pay for the wall.

That is something that was not pursued is forfeiture and would be a good alternative to getting funds but I do not think the WH can access them for that purpose but many believe that the sum of funds are a "fabrication." Instead Trump chose to steal money from our own people that were hit by natural disasters and from the military defenses.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaestev … -from-him/

Asset forfeiture or asset seizure is a form of confiscation of assets by the state. It typically applies to the alleged proceeds or instruments of crime. In addition to mandatory forfeiture accompanying a felony drug conviction, federal law subjects other property to civil forfeiture proceedings and deprives the offender of any rights to the property.

Federal and State Drug Forfeiture Laws

SpaceNut · 2019-02-16 19:12:15

Trump's emergency declaration is already facing legal challenges

$600 million expected to come from the Treasury Department's drug forfeiture funds

Rules of the game:

National Emergencies Act of 1975, which Congress adopted as a way to put some limits on presidential use of national emergencies. The act requires a president to notify Congress publicly of the national emergency and to report every six months. The law also says the president must renew the emergency every year, simply by notifying Congress.
The House and Senate can revoke a declaration by majority vote, but it would take a two-thirds vote by each house to override an expected presidential veto.

Not having a border fence; does not qualify as a national emergency...

Terraformer · 2019-02-17 02:50:39

Current extant "national emergencies"

Is Cuba still shooting down planes?

Ooh, this is an interesting one. "The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Persons Undermining Democratic Processes or Institutions in Zimbabwe was an effort to punish associates of Robert Mugabe." Because that really is a "National Emergency" for the United States.

GW Johnson · 2019-02-17 11:21:12

It is quite clear that the National Emergencies Act needs amendment defining what constitutes a national emergency, and how long such should last. Congress ceding its Article 1 powers to the executive without such limits was a very bad mistake.

Cuba shooting down planes sort of ended after Fidel Castro was out of office. Not so much of a problem now. No more so than any intrusions into anybody's airspace. Better to ask questions before shooting, usually.

GW

kbd512 · 2019-02-17 12:55:38

SpaceNut,

I'm all in favor of taking money from people who murder American children by poisoning them to fund our border patrol and a border wall. No foreign country should receive of a dime of aid money from the US until our borders are adequately defended from international criminal organizations exploiting the freedom and openness of American society for evil purposes.

SpaceNut · 2019-02-17 17:27:50

The reality of the Texas border is as GW indicated Hurd says 1,000 Texas farmers could have land seized to build Trump's border wall

more than 1,000 farmers in his state are at risk of having their land seized by the federal government to facilitate the construction of President Trump's long-promised wall.
"In the great state of Texas, we care about a little thing called private property, and there's going to be over 1,000 ranchers and farmers potentially impacted if the government comes in and takes their land...
To build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, the Trump administration will likely attempt to seize private property along the frontier using the power of eminent domain, which allows the government to trigger a process to buy and ultimately acquire private land for public use. ..If you didn't use eminent domain, you wouldn't have one highway in this country.

Eminent domain means to the benefit of the public...true for a highway as anyone can ride on it except when posted against specific vehicle types and pedestrians. A wall does not do this as its a fixed location that only benefits where its placed. Which does not meet the definition of the public as the candian border does not have a wall along it and none is along the oceans either so no a wall is not a public benefit....

Coons says Trump's emergency declaration sets "terrible precedent"

Congress should "make it clear that the Article I branch, the Congress, is going to jealously defend our right to be the body that decides on federal spending, and not let the president use this extreme measure as an end around our appropriations process,"
Trump's national emergency was simply as a way of getting around the congressional appropriations process.

The shutdown clock played down in this same manner:

The Democratic House could pass a resolution canceling the declaration which would then be sent to the Senate, where a simple majority of senators could vote to reverse the declaration. But Mr. Trump could veto such a resolution, and a congressional override of a veto requiring two-thirds of both chambers would be unlikely.

SpaceNut · 2019-02-17 18:42:22

The declaration, which Trump made Friday, has divided Republicans, with some saying the move amounted to constitutional overreach and could open the door to a future Democratic president declaring similar emergencies over issues the GOP disagrees with.

Trump's emergency declaration to build the wall will cost Americans more than money. The president's plan upends the Constitution, which is far more dangerous for our democracy than any caravan heading for the border. The crisis that the country is now confronting has less to do with a porous physical boundary than with how the limits of presidential power are eroding before our eyes.

Our system was designed around checks, balances and the need for compromise. Power was divided among three co-equal branches of government, each able to check the power of the others. Congress makes laws — including ones dictating how the federal government raises and spends money — and the president executes them faithfully.

When running for office, Donald Trump promised repeatedly that Mexico was going to pay for his wall. Instead, it turns out, that we all may pay for it – both with our taxes and with our polity.

Congress can’t allow Trump to "steal funds" from civil works programs as well as flood prevention and reconstruction projects in Puerto Rico, Florida, Texas and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Fact check

What is a national emergency? Here are 8 things to know

Trump's national emergency at the border is fake. Here are some very real emergencies he should be addressing instead.

kbd512 · 2019-02-17 19:46:20

SpaceNut,

The Democrats have never allowed Constitutional authority to stop them from doing anything. When the Japanese were rounded up and put into concentration camps in WWII, the Democrat President, Franklin D. Roosevelt, who did that never bothered to ask anyone whether or not his actions were Constitutional. He didn't ask permission from Congress to secretly provide war materiel to the British, either, despite the fact that he was expressly forbidden from doing so by existing laws on grounds that such actions would likely lead to open hostilities between the United States and other involved belligerents, which is precisely what happened. When former President Obama attempted to do an end-run around Congress to change our immigration laws, no thought was given to the constitutionality of his actions, either. This action won't likely end well for President Trump, either, but I think your beliefs about what Republicans think about this is just your beliefs. You didn't have one word to say about what former President Obama did when he attempted to change immigration laws by executive order, so I very much doubt you care about this topic, except as it applies to opposing President Trump.

Are you afraid that future socialist President Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will declare a "climate emergency" and then you'll get to experience exactly what our climate alarmists have been pushing for (namely, making energy so expensive and unavailable that only the rich, err next group of poor people after she utterly destroys our economy, can't afford to heat their homes in the winter)?

Bring on the Union of Socialist States of America so absolutely everyone can be equally destitute and miserable for all eternity, with no hope of ever achieving a modestly comfortable, let alone affluent, lifestyle. Let's all go back to living like we did in pre-industrial America. Let's give all our guns to the government while we're at it and hope that "dear leader" is merciful and kind and allows us to eat. I'm sure the street criminals will approve of that. Who wants to be confronted by a homeowner who might be armed with an AR15 when you're trying to rape, rob, and murder? How awful would that be? Who here doesn't want homeless defecating in the streets, leaving their hypodermic needles everywhere, and the random acts of street violence so common in all the Democrat-run cities?

Furthermore, let's try every utterly insane idea that any Democrat has pass through their mind because, hey, it's new and we haven't tried it. Who cares if those ideas have failed every single time anyone else has tried them, without exception. We're so special that Economics 101 doesn't apply to us. We're Murica! USSA, baby!

Woe to thee who points out the absurdity of this nonsense, especially if you're an "intellectual". Those are the first people the socialists kill because they're the first to become disillusioned with the stupidity of it all. You've convinced me, SpaceNut. Only our bat guano crazy, hyper-ventilating "Chicken Little" socialists should ever be permitted to be in charge of our formerly Constitutional Republic. If the America we knew never exists again, then great. I think we need a new "dark age" to remind our over-privileged and ill-informed members, basically everyone who thinks socialism and open borders is so great, of what life is like without the luxuries and bounty provided by this evil capitalist cabal we call America.

We don't need to steal a dime from "public works" projects. We shouldn't spend a dime on foreign aid until America's borders are defended. Congress gave more than $50B to other countries. All of that money can and should be appropriated to build the wall. We shouldn't need to bribe our allies or do for others what they're unwilling to do for themselves.

SpaceNut · 2019-02-17 20:39:09

The policy, an executive branch memorandum, was announced by President Barack Obama on June 15, 2012. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) began accepting applications for the program on August 15, 2012.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/the-facts-on-daca/

Presidential memoranda vs. executive orders. What's the difference?

An executive order can only be amended or rescinded by another executive order.

A presidential memorandum can be changed with another memorandum.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/c … clamations

So DACA was a policy to register recipients to renew their protection from deportation as they had been granted amnesty so as to get work permits, the registry is a means to keep track of locations of illegals and to have its data renewed after a period of time as the means to keep the data fresh.

Sounds to me that the purpose is step one, but step two was not done.....

kbd512 · 2019-02-17 21:02:05

SpaceNut,

Uh, no, that's not how the law works.

EO's can be countermanded by SCOTUS or other federal judges or Congress. The EO in question was countermanded by federal judges 3 times, eventually leading to a tied SCOTUS decision, which is where it stopped. Similarly, President Trump's attempt to circumvent Constitutional authority is ill-advised and likely to lead to repudiation from SCOTUS, which is exactly what I expect will happen. EO's are presumed legal, proper, and constitutional until proven otherwise by a trier of fact (a court of law). Once an EO is deemed to be unconstitutional, it carries no legal weight or authority in a court of law.

Congress makes law. The President of the United States does not. President Trump has not yet learned the lesson that his predecessor had to learn, who was billed as a constitutional scholar, if that is to be believed.

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