New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#26 2018-12-31 20:12:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,597

Re: Holidays

Post #19 puts quite the perspective of the season lengths that mars would see in mars sols. seems to work with a work week of 5 days on with the 6 month having 1 less day for that weekend.

Offline

#27 2019-01-01 11:26:47

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

New Years Resolution:

I'd like to invite NewMars forum members to suggest names for the 24 months listed in Post 19 of this topic.

I'll add the names as candidates over the year, and look for consensus as the (Terran) year draws to a close.

You can find Post 19 by using search:

Remove spaces from the terms given below.

Enter S e a r c h T e r m: and tongue r o p o s e d M a r s C a l e n d a r

Note the colons after the first term and before the second.  The Forum search function seems to perform better when the search is entered that way.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-04-22 06:44:27)

Offline

#28 2019-01-01 22:47:36

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

For Month "L" I'd like to propose a candidate name: Lowell

Begin Quotation from Wikipedia:
Description
Percival Lawrence Lowell was an American businessman, author, mathematician, and astronomer who fueled speculation that there were canals on Mars. He founded the Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona and formed the beginning of the effort that led to the discovery of Pluto 14 years after his death. Wikipedia
End Quotation.

(th)

Offline

#29 2019-01-02 09:56:43

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

For Month "B" two names might be worthy of consideration, for their focus on Mars:

Bradbury and Burroughs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Bradbury

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Rice_Burroughs

(th)

Offline

#30 2019-01-02 17:52:06

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,597

Re: Holidays

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac

zodiac is divided into twelve signs, each occupying 30° of celestial longitude and roughly corresponding to the constellations

Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces.

350px-Ecliptic_path.jpg

Offline

#31 2019-01-02 19:10:26

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

For SpaceNut ... thanks for suggestions .... posting to #19 (th)

Begin Quotation:
Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces.
End Quotation.

I note that the initial listing (by first letter of name) does not take into account the actual position of the Sign in the sky.

However, these names certainly do have historical significance.

Hopefully they will stimulate other suggestions.

SpaceNut ... your observation about a short weekend at the end of a Quarter has been a concern.

I'd like to counter with a reward for workers ... let the work week before the end of a Quarter be four days.

That way the weekend would be preserved!!!

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-01-02 19:22:17)

Offline

#32 2019-01-02 20:57:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,597

Re: Holidays

Call it another floating holiday that is just for pay purposes as the workers might not be a Monday to Friday work week as there are many that do a rotating 4 x 9 hr followed by a 5 x 9 week giving employees a workday off. There are many that do a 4 day week end rotation for 4 x 10 hrs, I would not fret much about the month day or week count as its something that will remain flexible for a long period of time based on a mars calendar.

Offline

#33 2019-01-03 10:56:06

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

SpaceNut,
Thanks for your encouragement of this topic.
(th)

RobertDyck,
Thanks again for your corrections to my draft for a possible Martian calendar.
I am looking forward to further guidance as this (Terran) year progresses.
(th)

For all ...
Is anyone aware of work already done to define a calendar for Mars?
It seems unlikely (to me) that this is the first time anyone (or a group) have undertaken this initiative.
***
That said, and until I hear otherwise, I'm assuming that the NewMars forum has an opportunity to set a model in place which would attract use simply because it is already in existence, and it is easier to adopt a pattern than to try to come up with a new one.
***
Next question ... has anyone defined the start of the Martian year?  The astronomical points in the orbit of Mars are known and described elsewhere in this topic, and elsewhere in the forum, I am sure.  Has anyone already taken the step of defining "New Years" on Mars?  There is the opportunity to create a calendar free of religious influences, on a new planet.
(th)

Offline

#34 2019-01-03 13:26:52

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,049
Website

Re: Holidays

We *could* use aphelion and perihelion (but which?) to define the new year. We could also use the solstice, and define the new year to start when the days start getting longer. Or we could define it to start from the first landing of humanity.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#35 2019-01-03 14:42:16

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

Thanks Teraformer!

Terraformer wrote:

We *could* use aphelion and perihelion (but which?) to define the new year. We could also use the solstice, and define the new year to start when the days start getting longer. Or we could define it to start from the first landing of humanity.

Following up on these suggestions, I'd like to try working with the "shorter day" option.

And! I'd like to suggest that Year 0 should (have started) with the arrival of the first probe that operated on the surface.

Apparently that honor belongs to the Soviet Union, and the Earth year was 1971.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_landing

Begin Quotation:
In 1971 the Soviet Union successfully sent probes Mars 2 and Mars 3, as part of the Mars probe program M-71. The Mars 2 and 3 probes each carried a lander, both of which failed upon landing. They were the first human artifacts to touch down on Mars. Mars 2 lander impacted on Mars only, while Mars 3 was the first Martian soft lander and was able to transmit from the Martian surface during the first 20 seconds, the first data and a portion of the first picture. These space probes also contained the first mini-Mars rovers, although they were broken on landing.
End Quotation.

If these suggestions inspire anyone to follow up by identifying the most recent Sol upon which the Martian Day was shortest, I'd like to try to determine which of the 24 (proposed) Martian Months we are in right now.

(th)

Offline

#36 2019-01-03 20:21:12

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,597

Re: Holidays

https://www.universetoday.com/38076/zod … eir-dates/

zodiacal-chart.jpg

Did you know that there are 88 constellations in the night sky? Over the course of several thousand years, human beings have cataloged and named them all. But only 12 of them are particularly famous and continue to play an active role in our astrological systems. These are known as the zodiac signs, 12 constellations that correspond to the different months of the year.

Each of these occupies a sector of the sky which makes up 30° of the ecliptic, starting at the vernal equinox – one of the intersections of the ecliptic with the celestial equator. The order of these astrological signs is Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces.

Offline

#37 2019-01-04 00:04:14

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,701
Website

Re: Holidays

SpaceNut wrote:

zodiac is divided into twelve signs, each occupying 30° of celestial longitude and roughly corresponding to the constellations

Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces.

SpaceNut wrote:

Did you know that there are 88 constellations in the night sky? Over the course of several thousand years, human beings have cataloged and named them all. But only 12 of them are particularly famous and continue to play an active role in our astrological systems. These are known as the zodiac signs, 12 constellations that correspond to the different months of the year.

Each of these occupies a sector of the sky which makes up 30° of the ecliptic, starting at the vernal equinox – one of the intersections of the ecliptic with the celestial equator. The order of these astrological signs is Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces.

Ancient Greeks and cultures that evolved from them (ancient Rome, etc) have broken up the sky into constellations to make the vast firmament of the cosmos manageable. Other cultures have broken the sky up other ways. But even within Greek based constellations, there are 13 constellations that cross the ecliptic. Ophiuchus has often been excluded because it doesn't fit the neat association with 12 months of the year.

250px-Ophiuchus_IAU.svg.png 200px-Kepler_Drawing_of_SN_1604.png

Ophiuchus in astrology

Ophiuchus has sometimes been used in sidereal astrology as a thirteenth sign in addition to the twelve signs of the tropical Zodiac, because the eponymous constellation Ophiuchus (Greek: Ὀφιοῦχος "Serpent-bearer"), as defined by the 1930 International Astronomical Union's constellation boundaries, is situated behind the sun from November 29 to December 18.

The idea appears to have originated in 1970 with Stephen Schmidt's suggestion of a 14-sign zodiac, with it also including Cetus as a sign. A 13-sign zodiac has been suggested by Walter Berg and by Mark Yazaki in 1995, a suggestion that achieved some popularity in Japan, where Ophiuchus is known as Hebitsukai-Za (蛇遣座 (へびつかいざ), "The Serpent Bearer").

So the 12 astrological signs are arbitrary. Not really useful for a Martian calendar.

And as I said, other cultures broke the sky up completely differently. Chinese constellations

Traditional Chinese astronomy has a system of dividing the celestial sphere into asterisms or constellations, known as "officials" (Chinese 星官 xīng guān).

The Chinese asterisms are generally smaller than the constellations of Hellenistic tradition. The Song dynasty (13th-century) Suzhou planisphere shows a total of 283 asterisms, comprising a total of 1,565 individual stars. The asterisms are divided into four groups, the Twenty-Eight Mansions (二十八宿, Èrshíbā Xiù) along the ecliptic, and the Three Enclosures of the northern sky. The southern sky was added as a fifth group in the late Ming Dynasty based on European star charts, comprising an additional 23 asterisms.

The Three Enclosures (三垣, Sān Yuán) are centered on the North Celestial Pole and include those stars which could be seen year-round.

The Twenty-Eight Mansions form an ecliptic coordinate system used for those stars visible (from China) but not during the whole year, based on the movement of the moon over a lunar month.

220px-Suzhou_star_cartography.jpg
North American indigenous people broke the sky up a different way. Australian aborigines broke it up different again.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-01-04 00:19:56)

Offline

#38 2019-01-04 19:15:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,597

Re: Holidays

The planet has passed its perihelion in April 2009 and its aphelion in May 2007. It would reach its next perihelion in May 2011. Approaching the perihelion (closest point to the Sun), the planets speed, at the approach of the aphelion (furthest point from the Sun), they slow down.

12 divides equally into 360 degress and so will 24 months for solar constellation.using any mix of earth month names and constellation names works for me...


http://planetfacts.org/orbit-and-rotation-of-mars/

MarsOrbitTop-400.jpg

1-Em0QiHA-Y2vKY-cONWSymw.gif

Offline

#39 2019-01-04 21:06:41

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

Thanks SpaceNut, for the charts, and the ideas for search.

As I had anticipated, work has already been done.

The Planetary Society has published a suggested Year 0 for Mars, and a table of solstices based upon that starting point

SpaceNut wrote:

The planet has passed its perihelion in April 2009 and its aphelion in May 2007. It would reach its next perihelion in May 2011. Approaching the perihelion (closest point to the Sun), the planets speed, at the approach of the aphelion (furthest point from the Sun), they slow down.


http://www.planetary.org/explore/space- … endar.html

Begin Quotation:

For the purpose of this comparison, we use the solar longitude range 0°-360° to define a Mars year and adopt April 11, 1955 (Ls=0°) as the beginning of year 1. In this arbitrary convention, the Mariner 9, Viking, Phobos, and Pathfinder missions occurred in years 9-10, 12-15, 19-20, and 23, respectively. By comparison, the 1992-1999 [Earth-based] millimeter observations extend over years 21-24, and the 1997-1999 [Mars Global Surveyor] TES observations extend over years 23 and 24. (Clancy et al., 2000)

They picked Year 1 to correspond with the year of a global dust storm widely observed in 1956. A more recent paper defined the existence of a Mars Year 0 (starting on May 24, 1953), and defined previous years as having negative numbers (Piqueux et al., 2015).

End Quotation.

And from the years table, Begin Quotation (with notes added):
Year 34    May 05 2017    Nov 20 2017    May 22 2018    Oct 16 2018 Winter Solstice
End Quotation.

Apparently there is an online tool at the page cited, to compute dates on Mars.  I have not yet tried it.

Later on in the page, there is mention of multiple attempts to create calendars for Mars, but the observation that none is in wide use.

I'll attempt to find out of there is information available about the previous attempts.

(th)

Offline

#40 2019-01-05 21:08:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,597

Re: Holidays

bones-of-comets-periodic-quadrantid-meteor-shower-lg.jpg

Offline

#41 2019-01-07 07:31:16

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

The Planetary Society web site contains links to astronomical precedent for identification of year 0 on Mars, and thus the ability to compute today's Sol.

From:
http://www.planetary.org/explore/space- … endar.html

Begin Quotation:
You can find dates corresponding to northern vernal equinoxes for Mars years -184 to 100 in Piqueux et al. 2015, "Enumeration of Mars years and seasons since the beginning of telescopic exploration."
End Quotation.

http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~shane/publi … s_2015.pdf

Online tool to compute Mars date:
http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

For today, 2019/01/07, the tool reports:

Martian Year: 34    Martian Month: 11
Solar Longitude Ls: 319.7   Sol number: 595

Note that this calendar assumes 12 months to the Martian year

End quotations from Planetary Society web site.

Because I am investigating the practicality of a 28 Sol month, I'll edit this post with the proposed 28 day month and a set of possible names.

Edited 2019/01/07 to report proposed month name for Month 21 (Sol 595) as (for now): Virgo (having nothing to do with actual constellation)

Additional names for Month 21 are welcome!

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-01-07 10:49:24)

Offline

#42 2019-01-07 09:01:33

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,701
Website

Re: Holidays

tahanson43206,

You can learn how to do things like insert quotes by clicking "BBCode" below the "Quick reply" box.

Begin Quotation is [ quote ] but do it without spaces. If I type without spaces you won't see the code, it will start a quote.
End Quotation is [ /quote ] again do it without spaces.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-01-08 11:13:00)

Offline

#43 2019-01-07 09:28:47

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

For RobertDyck ...

Thanks for the tip.  Amazon does not carry a book on BBCODE, but I found a web site with a summary of popular formats:

https://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

You can learn how to do things like insert quotes by clicking "BBCode" below the "Quick reply" blox.

Nice!

(th)

Offline

#44 2019-01-08 09:36:23

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian year: 34    Martian Month: 11 (by 12 month plan)
Solar Longitude: 320.3     Sol number: 596

Sol 596 is in Month 21 of Proposed 24 month calendar

Candidate names are: Virgo

Here is a set of animal names for consideration: Includes the Chinese zodiac.

Reference: a-z-animals.com

1    Aardvark, Alligator, ant, Antelope, Armadillo
2    Bison, Buffalo, Boar, Bat
3    Cow, Cat
4    Dog, Dragon
5    Elephant, Eel
6    Fox, Frog, Fly, Flamingo
7    Goat
8    Hen, Hog, Horse
9    Ibis, Iguana
10  Jackal, Jackrabbit, Jaguar
11  Kangaroo, Kiwi, Kingfisher
12  Lemur, Leopard, Lion, Llama
13  Moose, Mouse, Macaw, Magpie, Monkey
14  Nightingale, Newt, Numbat
15  Ocelot, Octopus, Opossum, Ostrich, Orangutan, Ox
16  Panther, Parrot, Peacock, Pelican, Penguin, Pekingese, Pig
17  Rabbit, Raccoon, Rat, Rattlesnake, Rooster
18  Salamander, Scorpion, Snake
19  Tapir, Termite, Tiger
20  Unicorn, Uakari, Uguisu, Umbrellabird
21  Vulture
22  Wallaby, Walrus, Warthot, Wasp, Weasel, Whale
23  Yak
24  Zebra, Zebu

(th)

Offline

#45 2019-01-09 08:30:00

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

2019/01/09 Today on Mars Post

http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 320.8    Sol Number: 597

Previous SL: 320.3        Previous Sol: 596

Calc: 360 / 668 >> .538922156 degrees per Sol (if 668 Sols assumed)

Sol 597 is in Month 21 of Proposed 24 month calendar.

Candidate names are: Virgo, Vulture, Vixen

Note that the Sol Number will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols - not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-01-09 12:07:08)

Offline

#46 2019-01-10 08:14:12

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

2019/01/10 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 321.4    Sol Number: 598

Previous SL: 320.8        Previous Sol: 597

Sol 598 is in Month 21 of a Proposed 24 month calendar.

Candidate names for this month are: Virgo, Vulture, Vixen

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Offline

#47 2019-01-10 20:14:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,597

Re: Holidays

Copying some of post 19 forward to help make sense of where you are

tahanson43206 wrote:

1    A    28                   Name:      Candidates: Aquarius, Aries
2    B    28                   Name:      Candidates: Bradbury and Burroughs; Barsoom (created by Burroughs)
3    C    28                   Name:      Candidates: Cancer, Capricorn
4    D    28                   Name:
5    E    28                   Name:
6    F    27    Quarter     Name:
7    G    28                   Name:      Candidate: Gemini
8    H    28                   Name:
9    I    28                    Name:
10    J    28                  Name:
11    K    28                  Name:
12    L    27    Quarter    Name:       Candidates: Lowell, Leo, Libra
13    M    28                   Name:
14    N    28                   Name:
15    O    28                   Name:
16    P    28                   Name:      Candidate: Pisces
17    R    28                   Name:
18    S    27    Quarter     Name:      Candidates: Sagittarius, Scorpio
19    T    28                   Name:      Candidate: Taurus
20    U    28                   Name:
21    V    28                   Name:      Candidate: Virgo
22    W    28                   Name:
23    Y    28                   Name:
24    Z    27    Quarter     Name:      Candidate: Zubrin

Now the above post is making sense...

So does it make sense to use the earth quarter names of Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter for the identifiers.

Special holidays could be when Mars probes succeeded in going into orbit, landing on its surface or even using mars for a flyby acceleration slingshot boost...

Offline

#48 2019-01-11 04:53:18

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

2019/01/11 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34        Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 322.0    Sol Number: 599   

Previous SL: 321.4        Previous Sol: 598

Note that Sol to Sol Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 598 is in Month 21 of a Proposed 24 month calendar.  See Post 19 for a summary.

Candidate names for this month are: Virgo, Vulture, Vixen

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

On Earth, dental appointments are typically scheduled at half year intervals.
On Mars, a comparable interval will be every Quarter.

On Earth, visits with a physician for an annual checkup are “annual”.
On Mars, a comparable interval would be a Half Year.
However, it is possible that the longer Full Year interval would be deemed sufficient.
An alternative is to settle on Quarterly checkups.

(th)

Offline

#49 2019-01-11 05:00:44

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 790

Re: Holidays

For SpaceNut ...

Thanks for your suggestion. I have added the proposed quarter names to Post 19, and added a reference to Post 19 to the daily post.

My (tentative) plan is to follow the calendar around the Sun for one full orbit.  We are coming up on New Year's on Mars, in 70 Sols (or so).

There is plenty of time to plan a suitable celebration !!!

NewMars.com can achieve some visibility by promoting the Planetary Society calendar, with NewMars tweaks.

(th)

Offline

#50 2019-01-11 18:03:10

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,597

Re: Holidays

NASA will celebrate the Martian New Year with an event at this flying saucer spaceship monument in Mars, Pennsylvania
Martian Calendar Milestone. NASA is celebrating the New Year on Mars on June 19, 2015.

Gearing Up to Prepare for the Next Mars New Year in 2019

The actual Mars New Year will be celebrated on Thursday, March 21st, 2019.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB