Lunar Carbon?

Rxke · 2005-10-29 01:16:42

Nice. So they *did* go one step further than the theory. Was probably a precursor paper on their research I read...

But... It's only a tiny step. I mean: on paper it is possible to build Si-diodes out of regolith, and they proved the theory is valid. But that's hardly a surprize.

Now, the real challenge is to do this automatically, which is orders of magnitude harder, I'd guess.
But it's a GOOD step: it proves it is feasible, it shows how much energy is needed, how much payload is needed, expected power output (eventually) etc.
a good strtingpoint to do some cost/benefit calculations. To present these figures to peeps that go over research budgets... This could really fly.

One small step, giant leap. These guys might become the unsung heroes of some private 'power-supply' subcontractors to expeditions, outposts etc.

Imagine you can present NASA a deal:" you prepay or loan us the money to build and launch our module, and in 2 years it pays itself back."

Heh, started this post, feeling really underimpresssed, but eventually optimism gave way

Grypd · 2005-10-29 04:44:25

Here is a report from the Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG) conference that was held in Houston. Seems they have found that due to the unique nature of the soil that Apollo returned that there are some very interesting properties and the best way for using them.

Astronomy Magazine Article

I like the bit on just how fast you can make a solid out of Lunar regolith. That idea for instant walls will certainly make lunar building very interesting. 1 road a mile long built easily in a single earth day is very possible

SpaceNut · 2005-10-29 19:47:13

Geology of the Moon

As noted if the moon is what resulted from a great impact billions of years ago then it will be the same mineral content as that of Earth to some degree. That is where the Apollo moon rocks really show how different that can be. But what little we have really probably does not tell the complete surface let alone the deep depths of the moons mineral content. Without more samples we can not be sure that we can do a base colony that can be sustained for long periods of time.

DigitalMan · 2005-10-30 14:03:44

That astronomy magazine article was interesting. Particularly that it only takes 30 seconds at 250 watts to harden the lunar soil. I would love to see teams of special-purpose robots built to enable astronauts/ground-based controllers to carry out substantial base-construction efforts with minimal direct supervision. Perhaps a bunch of small highly mobile machines to collect soil and bring it to a mobil but more bulky machine to bake it into bricks, with other robots available to use the bricks for the actual construction.

I wonder if it would be possible to use a similar scheme on mars (likely with much higher power requirements due to the different composition of the soil). It would certainly give NASA a chance to build and test the concept on the moon and then send a small team of robots to mars to prove the concept there before sending a more complete team of robots to construct facilities on mars before manned mars missions.

SpaceNut · 2005-10-30 20:30:21

While reading another thread I xame upon another link for solar cells using other materials.
DayStar Technologies Unveils LightFoil Photovoltaic Product For U.S. Military

DayStar Technologies has unveiled LightFoil for high specific power applications.
The product meets the low weight, high power, and form flexibility metrics required by onboard power generation systems for these weight sensitive applications. LightFoil consists of high efficiency CIGS solar cells deposited on thin titanium foil.
The Company has achieved a specific power level of 1440 W/kg (15. 2% AM0 efficiency) in the laboratory setting, which is approximately 50% more energy dense and 60% lighter than all known thin film alternatives.
Manufacturing development of LightFoil based on the laboratory benchmark is currently underway with a specific power target that will exceed 1000 W/kg.

Daystar technologies Educational Links

A byproduct of Ilmenite Reduction using this equation {FeTiO3 (s) + H2(g) + heat → Fe(s) + TiO2(s) + H2O(g)]} and 1000 degrees C heat source leaves the by-product FeTiO2 ferrous oxide and titanium oxide as the slag or waste product. This is what gets used to make oxygen though Electrolysis. But what can we do with the remaining. Well after a little magnetic seperation you have the Titanium needed to make the Daystar solar cells.

The much needed ingredient is Hydrogen but that is tough to bring as it evaporates quickly. A much better transport would be methane for a couple of reasons.
One being we can use a methane fuel cell to create water and power for later use but it leaves cxarbon for smelting the Iron from the earlier reduction process. By Electrolysis pof the water we get the oxygen that we need to breath but we get more hydrogen to keep the process going.

Direct Methanol Fuel Cells (DMFCs)

LOW COST, HIGH EFFICIENCY REVERSIBLE FUEL CELL (AND ELECTROLYZER) SYSTEMS

noosfractal · 2005-10-30 21:57:53

high efficiency CIGS solar cells deposited on thin titanium foil.

Thanks SpaceNut, these CIGS solar cells are interesting. CIGS = copper-indium-gallium-diselenide. You don't need a titanium substrate - it looks like any standard substrate will do. These guys claim 16.6% efficiency with an active film thickness of 3 microns. That's 1.5 kW/kg with a foil substrate. If we make our own substrate by melting luna regolith as discussed above that's 10 kW/kg ! That's 100 times better than what the ISS uses today. Deposition temperature is around 800 K. Apparently they are resistant to hard radiation.

Sweet.
.

SpaceNut · 2005-10-31 11:08:37

This is also part of the thin film group process of construction as I continue reading. There is also cadmium telluride (CdTe) which seems to be equally as good.

I am not sure how much of either of these are available however on the moon.

Edit
Now I have a use for all those spent Nickel cadium cells littering roadsides and in land fills:

A CdTe PV module contains very little cadmium. In fact, it has less than 0.1% cadmium by weight. One 8-square-foot module contains less cadmium than one size-C NiCd flashlight battery, and the cadmium in the module is in a much more environmentally stable form (i.e., a compound rather than a metal).

SpaceNut · 2005-10-31 12:29:24

On another note of the substrate material and of solar cell construction.
In-flight demonstration of innovative combined antenna/solar array

In-flight testing of the results of ESA-funded research into and development of combined solar arrays and antennas commenced on 27 October, when an experimental device was launched into low Earth orbit. The ability to implement these two spacecraft components as a single unit will offer substantial mass and cost savings for future missions. On small satellites, the integration of solar arrays and antennas could lead to reductions in spacecraft size, mass and cost.

SpaceNut · 2005-10-31 14:43:11

Gallium arsenide (GaAs) is a compound semiconductor: a mixture of two elements, gallium (Ga) and arsenic (As). Gallium is a byproduct of the smelting of other metals, notably aluminum and zinc, and it is rarer than gold.

This document gives the chemical hazards for many of the Photovoltaics types in use today.

SpaceNut · 2019-01-01 16:41:25

a substitute for lunar insitu carbon until it is found would be in the form of plastic waste materials that are used in food containers and more to pyro in a chamber to make it gaseous under extreme heat.

Are there any insitu plans for getting carbon for the moon....

Void · 2019-01-01 20:15:12

I think that there is a small amount of Carbon Monoxide in the lunar polar traps with the ice.

Done.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-03 10:37:29

Scientists Turn Plastic Into Diamonds In Breakthrough

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3advqv/ … eakthrough

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#76 2005-10-29 01:16:42

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#77 2005-10-29 04:44:25

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#78 2005-10-29 19:47:13

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#79 2005-10-30 14:03:44

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#80 2005-10-30 20:30:21

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#81 2005-10-30 21:57:53

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#82 2005-10-31 11:08:37

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#83 2005-10-31 12:29:24

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#84 2005-10-31 14:43:11

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#85 2019-01-01 16:41:25

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#86 2019-01-01 20:15:12

Re: Lunar Carbon?

#87 2022-09-03 10:37:29

Re: Lunar Carbon?

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