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#376 2018-11-05 05:49:20

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 960

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Venice's troubles are at least partly of the city's own making. They have pumped a large proportion of the available ground water from beneath the city and lagoon leading to a fall in ground level and they (and the Italian government) have failed to implement adequate protective measures for many years.
Venice is one of the few areas of the Mediterranean that has respectable astronomical tides. when spring tides coincide with a strong southerly wind in the Adriatic La Serenissima has always flooded, but peak flooding has been getting worse over the years and the city has lost some of its serenity.

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#377 2018-11-05 10:30:10

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,237
Website

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Most of our problems are of our own making. 

Seems silly to say our activities cannot affect climate,  when we have transoceanic pollution effects.  Too many rats in the box leads to a dirty box (and rats that kill and eat each other and their young).   

Biggest problem here is that there's already more people on this planet than it can support.  7 billion is too many.  Under 1 billion,  not so much of a problem. 

So,  unless you want to use war and famine to depopulate down under a billion,  then you had better start (1) seriously addressing pollution (including greenhouse gas pollution),  (2) advocating reducing birth rates below death rates,  and (3) figuring out how to make economies work with decreasing populations (something never successful before,  with the "big boys" absconding with all the wealth). 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#378 2018-11-05 13:12:29

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,903
Website

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

You also have to make it work at 7 billion, because it takes quite a few decades to get the population down even with a one child policy. Of course, if you can sustain 7 billion, why bother trying to get it down to a billion?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#379 2018-11-05 19:13:56

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,342

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

The atmosphere has a mass of about 5.15×10^18 kg with estimated volume of water is about 3,100 cubic miles (12,900 cubic kilometers), which is roughly just 0.001% of all of the water on Earth. Earths air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. But its the % of oxygen that we breath that is important.

A typical human breathes between 12 and 20 times per minute at a rate primarily influenced by carbon dioxide concentration, altitude over 43,000 ft (13,000 m), where the ambient oxygen concentration is equivalent to 3.6% at sea level, an average individual can perform flying duties efficiently for only 9 to 12 seconds without oxygen supplementation.

Carbon Footprint is measured in tons CO2e/capita which is saying that rich people put out less co2 than a poor person which comes from conversion of energy needs. The global average in 2007 was around 5.7 tons CO2e/cap but EU average for this time was about 13.8 tons CO2e/cap, where as for the U.S., Luxembourg and Australia it was over 25 tons CO2e/cap.

If the global population is around 9-10 billion by 2050 a carbon footprint of about 2 - 2.5 tons CO2e per capita is needed to stay within a 2 °C target.

https://mahb.stanford.edu/blog/carbon-footprint/

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#380 2018-11-07 04:31:53

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 960

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

I think we can comfortably sustain a population of considerably more than 7 billion, but not with rates of consumption at levels current in the West. For example we must increase the efficiency with which we use power, which is already happening in most industries as they try to drive costs down, and we will have to change our diets to include less meat. This is perfectly possible. Large numbers of Indian people live largely on vegetables and pulses with breads, rice, potatoes etc and the occasional bit of cheese, egg or dried fish. They have developed great ways of flavouring these to make a varied and delicious range of dishes. They don't use people food such as grains or alfalfa to feed animals.
Don't be seduced by the apparent simplicity of Malthusian economics. With every mouth comes a brain and a pair of hands. People are productive and creative and overall wealth is not limited, although particular resources may be.

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#381 2018-11-07 07:26:48

kbd512
Member
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,213

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Elderflower,

Thank you for seeing through this anti-human agenda.  Human creativity is the only thing that leads to better lives for everyone.  Killing people is not a solution to our problems.  There are no such simpleton solutions to our current set of problems.  We need every bright young mind we can get working to solve our problems.  There are no functional limits to what humanity can achieve, except through the limits of our own ingenuity.  The prognosticators of the past predicted mass starvation by the year 2000, but that never happened.  There is no such thing as fate for humanity.  Our fate is what we decide to make it.

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#382 2018-11-07 10:02:19

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,903
Website

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Cars (auto-centric design), kids (having a next generation), cows (high meat consumption). Pick one.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#383 2018-11-20 10:18:31

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,342

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Climate change will bring multiple disasters at once, study warns

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0315-6

researchers identified 467 distinct ways in which society is already being impacted by increasing climate extremes

They examined the impact on human health, food supplies, water, the economy, infrastructure, and security from multiple factors including rising temperatures, drought, heat waves, wildfires, precipitation, floods, powerful storms, sea level rise and changes in land cover and ocean chemistry.

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#384 2018-11-23 21:41:03

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,342

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Report says climate change will batter US economy

Climate Science Special Report Fourth National Climate Assessment (NCA4), Volume I This report is an authoritative assessment of the science of climate change, with a focus on the United States. It represents the first of two volumes of the Fourth National Climate Assessment, mandated by the Global Change Research Act of 1990.

https://science2017.globalchange.gov/

https://oehha.ca.gov/climate-change/rep … california

The report presents 36 indicators that show how climate change is affecting California. The report is intended to promote scientific analysis to inform decision-making on mitigating and adapting to climate change and to serve as a resource for decision makers, scientists, educators, and the public.

https://climate.nasa.gov/

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#385 2018-11-28 19:17:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,342

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

There are several greenhouse gasses and methane is on that list.
Observing the development of a deep-sea greenhouse gas filter

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#386 2018-12-02 22:20:14

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,342

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Scientists reveal substantial water loss in global landlocked regions

water-loss-in-global-landlocked-regions-hg.jpg

"Recent Global Decline in Endorheic Basin Water Storage,"

Another impact due to the atmosphere heating is that it expands and with that the earths hold on it grows weaker so we are starting to loss some of what we are breathing.
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/To_im … h_999.html

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#387 2018-12-06 18:38:10

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,342

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Louis wrote:

I'm agnostic on how carbon emissions affect climate - I am not convinced we really know. But if you are convinced that carbon emissions are going to cause global catastrophe, then catastrophe is a cost and if you offset the cost through CO2 sequestration, that would be an economic gain.

That is just the reason for why Norway does not have any snow this year as the temperatures are up thanks to the sets of California wild fires and all of the others due to being to dry and not cleared before they start by maintenance of the forests.

The map in the above post showed where it was too dry and that is also where the fires were.

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