MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

RobertDyck · 2003-01-22 10:36:46

I will answer here, not the other threads you posted to.

We have had the problem of holding the team together. The Roadrunner mission was started on the previous discussion board by average members, all of whom have skill and interest, some have impressive sounding qualifications on their resume, others not. We spent months building consensus and seriously started the project. When I asked Robert Zubrin if our effort was a duplication of what he was doing with JPL, he said no and encouraged us to continue a design only project. We never intended it to be design only. As we proceeded we discovered other Mars Society groups working on a balloon. Chris Vancil's Mars Balloon group was focusing on balloons here on Earth as an analogue to develop the technology. The Spain chapter was working on a Mongolfier balloon. We chose to merge our efforts and work together. After all this, the German chapter decided to take on the project but restrict it to German members and accredited aerospace professionals. That left out all the members of our team. Splitting the effort made getting space agency support more difficult. The manager of the Archimedes later made an offer for other Mars Society members to join, but they already had the design set before making the offer and still restricted it to individuals with recognised aerospace credentials. Personally I do have computer software development credentials, but not engineering; I find those judgements of paper credentials insulting, and his claiming to be not only the manager of the Archimedes project, but of the "Mars Society Balloon" project to be arrogant. When the Mars Scout opportunity came out, I tried to get support from the Mars Society executive, but Robert Zubrin didn't even answer my request. At the convention he explained that a $30+ million dollar project was too much.

Now you are trying to draw off members to work on yet another balloon project. You claim to have a new launch vehicle at a price of 1/1000th that of existing commercial launch vehicles. Even the Russian Dnepr is priced in the millions: $20 million listed at Astronautix.com but one individual told me the vehicle can be had for half that. But you claim to have one for $50,000. I will believe that when I see it fly. The Mars Society is having the problem of staying relevant and significant. We had a great start with FMARS but we have to progress to real work on flight hardware. The only flight hardware project has been Mars Gravity, which is a University project. The Mars Society is supposed to be a grass-roots society. I expected it would empower average individuals who have the interest and ability to get into real aerospace projects. We have already experienced a major set-back with the split between FMARS and Haughton Mars project. Support and participation on this board for a real mission to Mars hasn't been resounding. We don't need yet another individual dividing our efforts.

One criticism you had was that the design for Roadrunner is not fixed. There is a reason for that: it is not supposed to be just me. I recommended we do something small, yet scientifically relevant to get initial funding. The majority on the previous board voted for a balloon, that wasn't my idea. I recommended using an ion engine derived from the NSTAR ion engine that propelled Deep Space 1. Several individuals were willing to work on that. Just yesterday I asked a professor of Physics at the University of Toronto her opinion of instruments for a balloon. She is an atmospheric specialist and participated in the Canadian Space Agency's last workshop to design a Canadian mission to Mars. (I also think she's a hot babe and we flirted at the last conference, so the telephone call was an excuse to call her; but that's another story.) The point is that this is supposed to be a collaborative project by Mars Society members who want to participate.

However, sending a real probe to Mars is a very big project. We can work on a second after the first is done, but let's focus on just one Mars Society probe to Mars. I do not agree with your mission because was developed outside the Mars Society membership, but if you want to advocate your mission against ours do so in this thread.

RobertDyck · 2003-01-25 19:21:29

That is an incredibly ambitious mission. Nevermind the sample return, the rest is still amazing. I would be amazed if you could pull that off for the price you specify. But then, your business model sounds similar to mine. I asked Mars Society members to volunteer, after all the, project was started by other MS member, not myself; and asked the aerospace engineering department of my alma mater to work on the propellant feed system of the ion engine. The professor said my simplification was obvious and wondered why NASA made theirs so complicated. He said it would only take 1 master's student to complete it, at a price of $15,000 Canadian Dollars (about $10,000 US) for a year's work. It would be the student's thesis. So, yes, I would definitely be interested in a free ride to orbit.

TJohn · 2003-01-30 07:37:56

orionblade,

Do you have a website where we can follow your progress? You seem to be very proactive on this.

malfunkshun · 2003-04-15 13:25:21

do you have anyone working on graphics or logos for your mission? its the only thing I'm qualified to do that would actually fit into a real Mars mission, and I would like to be a part of this in some way.

Phobos · 2003-04-15 21:13:43

Any progress on that website Orionblade? I have to say I'll be spellbound if you manage to throw a rover to Mars for $10,000. I've been following Armadillo Aerospace's adventures and just the fuel tanks they want will cost that. But then again it makes you wonder just how far you might be able to go if you could use 100% volunteer labor and only had to buy the construction materials (and maybe even get some of those for free.) It seems like you'd need to rent shop space and have it outfitted with all kinds of machining equipment which in itself might eat up that 10k quickly. But then again it might be possible to find a volunteer who already has the necessary equipment or someone willing to lend it for free. I'd definately volunteer to work on a project like that. I think there'd be something romantic about riveting spaceships together in the far hours of the night.

Also, it seems like the rovers would need to be sterilized before being sent to Mars. Politics might kill this thing before it even took its first steps. It might even be possible that just getting past the red tape would eat up the budget. But then again there are plenty of space advocacy groups out there that could help in that area.

Algol · 2003-05-25 09:26:09

Any news on the website? ???

Nick

Wim · 2003-11-29 11:27:50

I just read this thread. Amazing what people try to do to get some attention ...
I'm very sorry, but I don't believe one thing of it.

orionblade · 2007-08-06 11:57:34

Ok, looks like I overshot the website debut by about 3 years...

I will be posting back soon, but Just wanted to touch base. Have had some major health setbacks in the family, almost losing my mother three times since my last posts on this forum. (by way of cancer and thromboembolism)

Will catch up soon
Rion

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#1 2003-01-22 10:36:46

Re: MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

#2 2003-01-25 19:21:29

Re: MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

#3 2003-01-30 07:37:56

Re: MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

#4 2003-04-15 13:25:21

Re: MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

#5 2003-04-15 21:13:43

Re: MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

#6 2003-05-25 09:26:09

Re: MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

#7 2003-11-29 11:27:50

Re: MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

#8 2007-08-06 11:57:34

Re: MOLTOV - Mars Orbital Laboratory... launch in '05

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