Space Station V

Belter · 2018-10-02 11:25:39

The eventual goal would be to make the space station virtually self sustaining. It would still need to bring some things from Earth, but it should be able to feed between 100-200 crew. Mostly potato, corn, nuts, rice, tomatoes, plus a lot of fish. Tomatoes should benefit from a low G environment. Many of the outer ring modules would have to specialize in processing food and the station would be populated substantially with food production specialists as well as people who could manufacture clothing and other products from the vegetation grown. Tilapia carcasses would be recycled into fish food. Back up air scrubbers would be in each module, as well as larger air filtration and water filtration technologies in the .6G labs (perpendiculars)

elderflower · 2018-10-03 03:51:30

In the event of a major solar flare, you can move your people into a suitable shelter surrounded by water storage or fuel tanks for shielding. Then there will be nothing to eat unless you have a lot of dry or frozen rations stored. Enough to last through the radiation events and the period of recovery of the crops to the point where they can sustain the people again. And solar activity is cyclical, so more than one event has to be allowed for. Without this you cannot go outside LEO.

Belter · 2018-10-03 05:57:17

elderflower wrote:

In the event of a major solar flare, you can move your people into a suitable shelter surrounded by water storage or fuel tanks for shielding. Then there will be nothing to eat unless you have a lot of dry or frozen rations stored. Enough to last through the radiation events and the period of recovery of the crops to the point where they can sustain the people again. And solar activity is cyclical, so more than one event has to be allowed for. Without this you cannot go outside LEO.

I don't think that plants are going to be mortally wounded by a solar flare. It is still in the magnetosphere which offers substantial protection and the hull is embedded with about 1-2" of water and 6 layers of alloy. The low G modules would have a substantial amount of water (5m at least) through which the protons would have to pass first.

Last edited by Belter (2018-10-03 06:52:56)

Belter · 2018-10-10 14:22:35

This is my idea for a solar still hull that uses 3D printed aluminum alloy hull that is "corrugated" in order to heat/cool water on the exterior, then a vacuum channel for insulation, then a water storage series of channels that provide more strength and radiation shielding.

Last edited by Belter (2018-10-10 14:23:53)

Belter · 2018-10-10 14:33:14

There's always a possibility you could extrude these in sheets and bond or weld them, but we should really spend the energy to perfect 3d metal printing for applications like this.

elderflower · 2018-10-12 05:14:48

Plants are made of the same stuff as people and animals, except that plants use cellulose for rigid cell walls. I would expect high levels of radiation to critically damage any of them.

Belter · 2018-10-12 06:06:17

The risk from LEO radiation is generally cancer risk over decades. Plants really don't have that issue. If there is radiation that will kill a plant, the humans are already dead.

elderflower · 2018-10-12 06:18:58

The point was that humans can be moved to small shelters and protected, as can seeds, but large scale crops cannot, so the latter may be severely damaged and the harvest restricted or delayed. The event doesn't have to be lethal to the crop plants, it only needs to seriously damage them. This requires that the humans will have rations available to cover the shortfall and/or delay in availability of food from their horticulture. That might be 3 months or so. Also there may be multiple events depending on the time in the solar cycle of 22 years that the mission is taking place.
For a space station for long term occupation there is no option but to ensure availability of these rations. If in the vicinity of Earth or Luna resupply becomes an option, elsewhere it would take too long.

Last edited by elderflower (2018-10-12 06:20:22)

Belter · 2018-10-12 07:07:59

Sure, that goes without saying. But I doubt plants can be sufficiently damaged within Earth's magnetosphere and hidden in a metal/water structure to actually stop food production. A few cells damaged here and there won't stop a plant. Maybe we'll end up with mutant strawberries the size of watermelons one day though.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2009/05 … -chernobyl

Terraformer · 2018-10-12 10:49:47

If 10cm of water can protect a crew against solar flares, it can protect plants. As for the regular drizzle of radiation, plants are a lot more tolerant of DNA damage than animals.

Belter · 2018-10-12 15:28:08

For longer distance stations, which we will eventually do, we will likely build those from asteroids and we can harvest lead or other metals to protect the stations. Or we will hollow out asteroids and moons that have stable safe orbits, though the problem with that is mainly the lack of rotation. So I think complete consumption of small asteroids makes the most sense.

Belter · 2018-10-15 09:25:55

Here's an updated version of my idea for a 3D printed "skin" hull that contains active heat redistribution and a solar still for purifying water. It would also assist in radiation mitigation and would have more substantial protection against micro meteorites, though it would be a bit more difficult to repair a substantial breach. A full breach would require pass through several inches of water and 6 layers of alloy. It is designed for semi-octagonal cross sections in the agricultural spokes of the station.

Belter · 2018-10-15 17:54:18

The red is where the main boiling channels would be. Those would cross over to the other side where the water would be collected. If it needed to be cycled again it could go through the orange channels. Once the water is processed and filtered, it could fill the inner channels which are separated by a vacuum slot which adds strength and insulation. The water could be cycled as needed to distribute the warmth from the sun. At approximately 3-5" thick (though it could be thicker), it would add some reasonable radiation protection. The only think I can see is that this type of arrangement would only work in Earth orbit. By the time you get to Mars, the sun would not be sufficiently hot to boil the water for purification and would likely freeze unless mirrors were used to increase the heat on the side walls, which wouldn't be a bad idea to avoid having to electrically heat the station. If it gets to a distance where mirrors are not enough or are not practical, insulated wrap and the removal of the vacuum channel would keep stored water from freezing, and automated pressure release valves would be needed or some sort of salt injectors or ability to drain the water quickly in the event of a loss of temperature.

A 1G station in orbit around Mars and other planets would provide a healthier long term environment for workers. And a .6G ring would help rebound before heading back to Earth. The BFR is a cool design, but the reality is, we need at least a partial G transport, along with higher G stations at Mars, the Moon, Ceres, eventually Jupiter and Saturn and beyond.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-02 05:07:19

New 1300ft 'lunar city' with artificial gravity will allow babies to be born on the moon

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-new … l-27567886

People Could Live in Rotating Cones On the Moon or Mars in the Future

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/ … he-future/

tahanson43206 · 2022-08-02 11:03:18

For Mars_B4_Moon re #64

Thank you for this outstanding find!

For RobertDyck ... please note the 20 second rotation!

While the proposed ring is larger (to achieve 1 G) I deduce the professor agrees with your guess that humans can tolerate 3 RPM.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-08-02 22:05:17

Much like the large ship you are going to need radiation protection plus since the moon has no atmosphere to protect you. That means a channel in the center much like the large hub to navigate to the surface to go outside for a field trip.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-05 14:49:29

Long-duration spaceflight is bad for the bones

https://physicsworld.com/a/long-duratio … e-bones/?u

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#51 2018-10-02 11:25:39

Re: Space Station V

#52 2018-10-03 03:51:30

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#53 2018-10-03 05:57:17

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#54 2018-10-10 14:22:35

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#55 2018-10-10 14:33:14

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#56 2018-10-12 05:14:48

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#57 2018-10-12 06:06:17

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#58 2018-10-12 06:18:58

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#59 2018-10-12 07:07:59

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#60 2018-10-12 10:49:47

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#61 2018-10-12 15:28:08

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#62 2018-10-15 09:25:55

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#63 2018-10-15 17:54:18

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