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SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

'Devastating' ocean heatwaves on the rise

"While some of us may enjoy the warmer waters when we go swimming, these heatwaves have significant impacts on ecosystems, biodiversity, fisheries, tourism and aquaculture," said the study's lead author Eric Oliver from Dalhousie University, Canada.

"There are often profound economic consequences that go hand in hand with these events."

The heatwaves are linked to an overall rise in average sea surface temperatures consistent with climate change effects, the study found.

"With more than 90 percent of the heat from human-caused global warming going into our oceans, it is likely that marine heatwaves will continue to increase,"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

Ocean's Vital Gulf Stream System Weakest In 1,600 Years, Scientists Find

That would explain a rise in temperature....

The currents began to weaken near the end of the Little Ice Age in 1850 as melting freshwater in the Arctic diluted saltwater and made it less dense, so it didn’t sink as usual to help drive the circulatory pattern. Two studies published in the journal Nature this week say the global system of ocean currents known as the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, or AMOC, has dropped in strength by some 15 percent since the mid-20th century to a record low.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

We just finish winter and not even into summer yet so why would we have holes in the Artic Ice?

https://www.space.com/40390-nasa-arctic-ice-holes.html

Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,821

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

I neither affirm or deny CO2 induced global warming (I suspect a bit of it though).

But here is some interesting science I think.

A 405,000 year cycle for Earth induced primarily by Venus and Jupiter.

https://phys.org/news/2018-05-ancient-s … -deep.html

The Earth's plane moves from about 0 Degrees to about 5 Degrees, and this is one factor that changes climate so they say.

In one situation, the Northern Hemisphere land masses gain more energy.

But they say this is a background effect, underneath the short term fluxuations.  Not what drives shorter term fluctuations.

Last edited by Void (2018-05-07 13:39:52)

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GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

There are all sorts of "solar cycles".  The big ones appear to be the variations in Earth's orbital geometry due to the perturbations from the other planets,  mostly (but exclusively) Jupiter.  These are the 3 frequencies of large magnitude (26,  40,  and 100 kilo-year period) that affect annual insolation in the northern hemisphere.  Because of the current configuration of the continents,  the planet's climate appears sensitive to that,  at least until they move enough.  One of these frequencies drove the Pleistocene glaciation cycles,  although there was a switch from one frequency to another in the 4th glaciated period.

These effects seem to far outweigh the 11 year sunspot cycle,  and even the proposed 500-year solar cycle that might (or might not) have driven the difference between the Medieval warm period and the so-called "little ice age". 

According to the orbital variations theory,  we should be already well into another cool-down toward glaciation.  We are not,  instead the ices on land and on the sea seem to be melting at accelerating rates,  unlike anything in the last 3 million years of geologic records.  We and our civilization are the only new card on the table since the Pleistocene glaciations began.  That alone is enough to say we are affecting this with what we do. 

You don't need climate modelling or the politics of science to understand that.  You only need to understand that we shouldn't be doing those things which act to make the ice melt/sea level rise problem worse,  since the consequences look to be so severe. 

The CO2 bell jar experiment (or understanding less-than-perfect IR transmissibility of CO2 and some other gases) tells you what we are doing that might be making this worse.  Simple as that.

From that point you make changes,  but only at rates that do not kill more people than you save. And there are economic causes of death,  too.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-05-07 16:34:42)

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

Another thing to global warming is that it happens in the last few feet to the global surface and is not being seen in any sort of way at altitude.

It is also believed by modeling that the suns final demise will be in about 10 billion years, our sun will turn into a giant ring made up of an extremely bright envelope of interstellar gas and dust.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Posts: 29,431

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

Those same last few feet
How air pollution contributes to 8 million deaths each year

WHO reveals shocking figures on air pollution deaths

The data show a staggering proportion of deaths from seemingly unrelated diseases actually have air pollution to blame; 24 percent of all adult deaths from heart disease, 25 percent from stroke, 43 percent from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), and 29 percent of lung cancer deaths.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,801

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

Actually,  what the weather data show is an atmospheric warming near the surface,  with cooling in the stratosphere.  If the solid or liquid surface were getting warmer,  in an atmosphere of reduced IR transmissibility,  this is exactly what you would expect. 

That being said,  it's not the same everywhere,  and there are lots of exceptions.  This is the detection of small trends in averages over time from data that are inherently greatly scattered.  It is certainly not uniform geographically.  Yet it is there.

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

Another detection of its better to harm mother nature than to lose money on science and laws designed to protect mankind.
Articles of news as Rise In Ozone-destroying Chemical

Scientists have discovered a rise in emissions of an ozone-depleting chemical whose levels are supposed to be “at or near zero,” suggesting someone is violating the 1987 Montreal Protocol, according to The Washington Post. Emissions of one of the chemicals most responsible for the Antarctic ozone hole are on the rise, despite an international treaty that required an end to its production in 2010, a new NOAA study shows.

Jun. 27, 2017 New threat to ozone layer found

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

The West Antarctic Ice Sheet Seems to Be Good at Collapsing

Warming warning: West Antarctic ice loss rate tripled in 25 years, study shows

An analysis of satellite data collected since 1992 suggests that ocean-driven melting has led to a tripling in the rate of ice loss from West Antarctica, from 53 billion to 159 billion metric tons per year. Estimated annual ice loss from the Antarctic Peninsula rose from 7 billion to 33 billion metric tons over the same 25-year period, due to ice shelf collapse. The analysis suggests that 3 trillion tons’ worth of Antarctic ice losses have increased global sea levels by 7.6 mm (0.3 inches) since 1992, and that the increase is accelerating.
East Antarctica’s ice sheet, however, is gaining mass at an average rate of 5 billion metric tons per year. The main factor behind that gain appears to be fluctuations in snowfall, researchers said.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

The heat has been quite deadly this last nearly a week straight as even up here in NH we have been 100 or so with humidity.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wildfi … t-to-west/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yolo-count … 018-07-04/

The wildfire is also threatening more than 1,000 homes and buildings, and hundreds of residents were told to evacuate.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,801

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

I may not believe in climate computer models very much,  but one thing the climate scientists have said,  more or less unanimously,  for 30 years now is that anthropogenic warming symptoms include both hotter heat waves and colder cold snaps.  Plus wilder weather and stronger storms. 

Those 4 have been increasing over most of my life,  as well as winter Arctic sea ice thinning: from generally too thick for a sub to surface when I was a boy,  to thin enough for a sub to surface anywhere anytime now. 

100-degree humid weather in NH,  huh?  We get 3-5 months of that in Texas all the time.

Welcome to human-caused global warming.  It's gonna get a lot worse,  and the seas are gonna rise a lot more and a lot faster than anybody currently thinks.  That's the trend in prediction changes over my life.

The hardest to cope with is sea level rise.  Most of humanity's highest-value assets are cities within a meter of sea level.  These are rather solidly-fixed assets.  If seas rise by closer to 6 meters than 1 meter in 50-100 years,  all the coping proposals I have seen will fail.

Unlike most,  I think we are already past the tipping point:  the meltdown is irreversible now.  We passed it about 50 years ago,  near as I can tell. 

Check the elevation where you live.  You might live to see it become beachfront property. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-07-05 07:57:30)

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

I believe that the hill I live on is 400 plus ft above sea level but that will mean I will have an ocean front veiw.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,801

Website

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

I have the educated guess of about 3-6 m rise in 50-100 years,  based on partial meltdown of Greenland (well-underway) and West Antarctica (just found to be destabilizing),  plus the small effect of the mountain glaciers (whose largest effect is desertification because of no seasonal snowmelt river flow anymore). 

The long term effect is larger,  due to thermal expansion as oceanic waters warm to ever greater depths,  added to the meltwater equivalent to ice volume (about 10% smaller than the ice volume itself).  The geologic record shows how bad this can be,  between the extremes of full glaciation and full deglaciation.  There are fossil beaches observed as deep as 480 feet below current sea level,  and as high as 350 feet above current sea level.  Such would take tens of millennia to occur fully. 

My numbers may not be quite right,  and are most likely obsolete,  but they are in the ballpark.  Most uncertain is East Antarctica.  These are meltwater volumes added to sea level without thermal expansion,  but with 100% ice loss on land-above-sea-level.  Mountain glaciers:  1 m sea level rise.  Greenland:  6 m sea level rise.  West Antarctica:  7 m sea level rise.  East Antarctica 20+ m sea level rise. Maybe a big +. Don't know. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-07-06 08:04:36)

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

The mountains of NH do have fossils quite high up on the slopes as shells have been found in the rocks.

Monster heat dome threatens all-time temperature records Friday in Southern California

Record-crushing heat is likely in Southern California through Saturday from the same deadly heat dome that has torched the central and eastern United States and parts of Canada over the past week.

ouch Africa may have witnessed its all-time hottest temperature Thursday: 124 degrees in Algeria

All time heat records have been set all over the world

The white was what caught my eyes as its off the chart of temperature....

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

A scientist's response to Antarctic ice loss: 'We can act.'

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

The continuing heat wave is still gripping the nation but its nothing compared to what is happening out in California.

Postal worker, nearing retirement, dies in record-setting CA heat

The 63-year-old was found unresponsive in her mail delivery truck as temperatures topped more than 115 degrees in the record-breaking heat.

This heatwave has killed many more but its the high temperature that got them...

Estimated 70 Deaths Linked To Canada's Heat Wave

'Heat Dome' brings death, misery to US for Fourth of …

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

So when in recent times have we heard of an ICEberg breaking off from Greenland?

Massive iceberg breaks off from Greenland glacier

An iceberg four miles wide has broken off from a glacier in eastern Greenland and scientists have captured the dramatic event on video. New York University professor David Holland, an expert in atmospheric and ocean science, told The Associated Press that "this is the largest event we've seen in over a decade in Greenland."

A picture taken on July 13, 2018, shows an iceberg behind houses and buildings after it grounded outside the village of Innarsuit, an island settlement in the Avannaata municipality in northwestern Greenland. Innaarsuit is located about 1,000 kilometers (620 miles) north of Nuuk, Greenland's capital and largest city.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

Adapt or die: Can evolution outrun climate change?

Across the planet, animal and plant species are on the run. A rapidly changing climate is shifting when and where plants blossom, and forcing creatures big and small to migrate and learn new tactics for survival.

It's a trend that's likely to accelerate as scientists expect to see more extreme weather events -- intensifying storms and droughts, and greater temperature fluctuations on land and sea. To understand the impact, researchers are flocking to a unique, living lab: the Galápagos Islands.

Marine biologist Jon Witman from Brown University comes to the Galápagos regularly to monitor the effects of climate change on the evolutionary process.

"It's been stated that the Galápagos is the natural laboratory for evolution. And we're saying that it's a natural laboratory for studying climate change and evolutionary responses to climate change," Witman told CBS News' Adam Yamaguchi.

He said evolutionary changes that once unfolded over hundreds of thousands of years are now happening before our eyes.

"It's a major new perspective in evolutionary biology and ecology, because it's forcing ecologists like me to think about adaptation and natural selection on the period of ten years or so," he said.

Witman's team is focused on understanding the impact underwater, diving to inspect the health of coral reefs and see how changes in water temperature may be shaping changes in marine species.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

Nuclear plants need to be shutdown when they have cooling problems but now with global warming they seem to be having just that problem as its to hot to be run....

Hot weather forces 4 French nuclear reactors to shut down as the decision was made to avoid overheating the rivers..

Rivers that are unusually warm can experience mass fish die-offs, which has happened in Germany in the past week

That heat is still being felt up here in NH but when do we have One Person Dead, More Than 20 Hospitalized During Hard Summer Festival in California: Report

The heat has been driving something else in The Latest: Trump says he is monitoring California wildfires
Ya watching it burn maybe..from his Bedminster, New Jersey, golf resort.

Trump has been claiming on Twitter that California's water policy is shortchanging firefighters of water to battle the state's raging wildfires. But wildfire and water experts say that's not the case.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/loca … 75171.html

approximately 17 large fires California Fire Now the Largest in State History: ‘People Are on Edge’ nearly 600,000 acres burned. More than 13,000 firefighters battling blazes. More than 2,300 members of the National Guard pulled into the fight. California’s own resources tapped out, 17 states have rushed equipment and firefighters to aid the effort.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/loca … 87433.html

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

The fingerprint of climate change: Heat, drought and wildfires

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

Pacific Ocean's effect on Arctic warming

The Arctic is experiencing larger and more rapid increases in temperature from global warming more than any other region, with sea-ice declining faster than predicted. This effect, known as Arctic amplification, is a well-established response that involves many positive feedback mechanisms in polar regions.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

The heat wave is back for much of the US and it seems that the head of global warming has a few more things that the rise in Co2 have for impacts.

Rising carbon dioxide levels could cause nutritional deficiencies across the globe: Study

Rising levels of carbon dioxide, which deplete the nutrients of different plants and key crops like wheat and rice could carry significantly less nutrition in the future. This could leave hundreds of millions around the world at risk for nutritional deficiencies as it impacts the poor the most. In addition, 1.4 billion women of childbearing age and children under 5 currently at high risk of iron deficiency could see reductions in their dietary iron intake of 4% or more.

Previous studies by this group and others have shown crops grown at greater than 550 parts per million (ppm) of carbon dioxide (CO2) have anywhere from 3% to 17% lower levels of iron, zinc and protein, compared with current atmospheric conditions of 400 ppm.

Results showed that by 2050, when the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is predicted to reach around 550 ppm, 175 million people could become deficient in zinc and 122 million people could become protein deficient.

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

SpaceNut,

Iron deficiency?  Seriously?  Give it a rest.  You and others are claiming things unsupported by reality.  Sorry.

Terraformer

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From: The Fortunate Isles

Registered: 2007-08-27

Posts: 3,906

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Re: When Science climate change becomes perverted by Politics.

No, I'm fairly certain that that's what actually happens at elevated CO2 levels. It's to do with the plants being more productive, so the nutrients are being diluted by the extra starch. The key, of course, is to make sure you're not relying on a single food source. Maybe eat more meat.

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