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Oldfart1939

Member

Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,384

Possible delay in launch of Boeing's Starliner?

As reported this morning on SpaceNews.com, Boeing's launch-abort engine suffered an "anomaly" during the recent test firing, and which threatens an additional delay on their scheduled manned missions to the ISS.

https://spacenews.com/boeings-starliner … g-testing/

Although this is bad news for Boeing, it will make it difficult for NASA to throw any further roadblocks in SpaceX's path. NASA needs access to the ISS, and without a US launch provider--will be up the proverbial Sh*t Creek in a leaky boat.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,877

Re: Possible delay in launch of Boeing's Starliner?

Boeing won a $4.2 billion contract to complete and certify CST-100 spacecraft by 2017, while SpaceX won a $2.6 billion contract to complete and certify their crewed Dragon spacecraft. The contracts include at least one crewed flight test with at least one NASA astronaut aboard.

http://www.boeing.com/space/starliner/

Boeing's Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 Starliner spacecraft is being developed in collaboration with NASA's Commercial Crew Program. The Starliner was designed to accommodate seven passengers, or a mix of crew and cargo, for missions to low-Earth orbit. For NASA service missions to the International Space Station, it will carry up to four NASA-sponsored crew members and time-critical scientific research. The Starliner has an innovative, weldless structure and is reusable up to 10 times with a six-month turnaround time. It also features wireless internet and tablet technology for crew interfaces.

Some nice features for a capsule.

Boeing has completed their second parachute system qualification test and have three additional qualification tests and six reliability drop tests planned, with three of those reliability tests utilizing balloons and three utilizing a long-dart shaped vehicle.

The engines, which use hypergolic propellants and generate 40,000 pounds-force of thrust each with what official statement, claimed that a hydrazine valve in the propulsion system failed to close properly at the end of the test, causing the propellant to leak.

So not to bad in that how it failed means it stayed going seconds longer unit fuel stopped flowing. For a launch escape system not really an issue unless it fails to open. Something else to note was it was a test stand failure of an engine that would be intergrated into the Starliner capsule service stage.

GW Johnson

Member

From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,459

Website

Re: Possible delay in launch of Boeing's Starliner?

Somehow I don't see NASA particularly concerned about further delay,  although they should be. 

I would note that it is NASA delays and forced changes (parachute landing instead of propulsive with parachute backup) that kept Dragon 2 from flying back in 2017.  Now note the 2020 crew flight date in the excerpt below. 

Contract to fly on Soyuz runs out during 2019,  or so I hear.  If you cannot put a crew on ISS,  do you deorbit the thing?  Or let it go to pot for a year or two,  until you can fly there again?  That second choice was why Skylab fell,  and happened to hit Australia. 

I smell very bad management here.  Skunk spray smells better.

GW

From AIAA “Daily Launch” email newsletter for 7-24-18:

Boeing Starliner “Anomaly” Likely To Delay Crewed Mission.

The Los Angeles Times (7/23) reports on an “anomaly” suffered by The Boeing Company’s astronaut test capsule “during an engine test fire last month, which analysts said is likely to delay the Chicago aerospace giant’s first flight of astronauts from US soil even further.” The issue happened when a test version of the integrated service module underwent a “hot-fire test of its launch-abort engines.” In a statement Monday, Boeing explained that the engines successfully ignited and ran for the full duration of the test, but that “an anomaly occurred” during engine shutdown that caused a propellant leak. Both Boeing and SpaceX are scheduled to perform crewed tests by the end of the year, but “industry observers have believed the NASA timelines listed on their website were unrealistic, even before the anomaly.” According to Teal Group Senior Space Analyst Marco Caceres, “My sense is that it all gets pushed back at least two to three months at minimum.” Caceres added that the companies “may still meet the uncrewed flight test this year, but then the crewed one will be pushed back to next year.” In its statement, Boeing added that it did not have any schedule updates to make at this time.

        NASA Scheduled To Announce Commercial Crew Program Assignments In August. ExecutiveGov (7/23) reports that NASA is expected to announce the first astronauts who will travel to the ISS as part of the agency’s Commercial Crew Program. NASA expects the program’s first mission “to take place sometime in 2020.” Both The Boeing Company and SpaceX have received contracts under the program.

---

GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,267

Re: Possible delay in launch of Boeing's Starliner?

an update on this thread, there have been rumors of Boeing CST-100 Starliner delays going back to 2016 and 2017 in newmars discussions

they have done a lot of good work but....

8 years later

First Starliner crewed flight delayed to 2024

https://spacenews.com/first-starliner-c … d-to-2024/

Space-X has been the most sucessful

Boeing might also be sucessful

The Commercial Crew Program (CCP) provides the USA with commercially operated crew transportation service to space. CST-100 Starliner is a class of two partially reusable spacecraft designed to transport crew to the International Space Station and other LEO destinations. In 2016, Boeing delayed its first scheduled Starliner launch from 2017 to early 2018, a mission entails flying a crew of NASA astronauts to the International Space Station for a one-week test flight.  Blue Origin, Boeing, and Sierra Nevada Corporation's Sierra Space subsidiary for commercial space activities and space tourism released their plan for a commercial space station, it would be a mixed use business park?
https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/25/227 … nouncement
Calypso Spacecraft 3 a space capsule manufactured by Boeing and used in NASA's Commercial Crew Program was launched on an uncrewed test flight of Starliner to the International Space Station, it was scheduled to dock to the ISS and then return to Earth following a week in space however the spacecraft had issues and was unable to rendezvous with the station and landed after two days in space, Boeing Starliner-1 also known as Post Certification Mission-1 or PCM-1 is planned to be the first operational crew mission of the Boeing Starliner to the ISS.  Calypso will now be used for Boe-CFT instead. Spacecraft 2, which was used for Starliner Orbital Flight Test-2 will instead be flying this mission. It will dock at the ISS Harmony Port, also known as Node 2, is the "utility hub" of the International Space Station. It connects the laboratory modules of the United States, Europe and Japan.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stati … node2.html

Discuss progress vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqPslXCL8f0

Starliner undergoing three independent investigations as flight slips to 2024

https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/08/s … s-to-2024/

Astronaut Equipment Training Inside

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT9lg8KhLDI

From left, NASA astronauts Mike Fincke, Suni Williams, and Barry “Butch” Wilmore, Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT) backup spacecraft test pilot, pilot, and commander, respectively, exit the Astronaut Crew Quarters at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasakennedy/52484697754/

The Starliner crew flight test was most recently scheduled for July 21 and was due to carry a pair of NASA astronauts to the International Space Station. Boeing discovered two new problems with Starliner: one affecting the safety of its parachute systems and another involving a specific tape that was discovered to be flammable.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/06/01/boe … -nasa.html

Boeing's Space Suit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOAsUR-o-U

NASA commercial crew manager Steve Stich said it's still too early to set a new launch date for the Starliner crewed test flight, as they focus on technical issues. Making progress on the parachute joint and wire tape issues.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1 … 2212374532

SpaceX provided its knowledge of crewed parachute systems to Boeing and we are happy to be helpful in any other ways.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1684242109199527941
Designing parachutes for orbital, crewed spacecraft is much harder than it may seem. Was a major challenge for SpaceX.

An older discussion from 2002 on Mars suit design and Biosuits

'Lets brainstorm on suit design - We will need suits after all'
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=277

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-08 06:25:18)