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SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

They are using the child endangerment portion of the law is being enlarged to fit the need for safety of the children but its the action of capture and detaining after being racially profiled without cause just because you are within that 100 mile of the border walking with a child. Something is wrong when you are tried and convicted without setting foot in a court of law before you are even charged with a crime with the second part of the crime not being able to produce and identification from the US or a visa when confronted for crossing or being here illegally. Before the confrontation there was no crime being commited for a lawful endangerment to even be declared.

Adding more related content:
Lindsay Gottlieb said a Southwest ticket counter worker told her she had to 'prove' the child she was traveling with was her son.
Of course by herself but still racial profiling

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

Anyone who enters another country illegally with their child fits the dictionary definition of child endangerment.  This "I don't need any ID" nonsense doesn't work at a national border.  If you cross the US border, you need ID.  It's just one more reason we need to build that wall.  Anyone who comes over the wall can be arrested on the spot and we can stop playing this little game.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

Not seeing the endangerment....

https://legal-dictionary.thefreediction … dangerment

http://ndaa.org/pdf/Child%20Endangermen … _FINAL.PDF

Sounds to me like a wall where a child falls makes the US liable for negligence...

Consent Letter to a Allow Minor Child to Cross the U.S. Canadian Border Sounds reasonable even for any border...

Not recomended to do but 5 Things I Learned Sneaking Over the U.S.-Mexico Border has some interesting points...

The nice saleslady up north may say "Give me your tired and your poor,"
but down south the armed guard still wants to see your papers.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

Take your child tens of miles into the desert on foot so you can illegally cross the border into Mexico.  Forget about the fact that you can't carry enough water to provide for yourself for more than a couple days.

The US is never responsible for the criminal behavior of people who illegally attempt to enter this country.

Why do you advocate for criminal activities like illegal immigration?  Do you allow random people off the street into your home?

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

This just one reason why seperation of children from parents should not be done Separated at the border: A mother's story seeking assylum...

Jocelyn, on behalf of herself and hundreds of others, is suing several federal agencies, claiming it's illegal for the government to keep families separated for no legitimate reason after a fit parent has served a sentence -- three days to two weeks -- for the misdemeanor of illegally crossing the border.

Then again this is why deporting is insuficient for some Man who allegedly killed teen in Houston crash had been deported 3 times
later determined to be under the influence of unspecified narcotics when he was driving "at a high rate of speed" and crashed into the rear of another car....

The first of those deportations took place in 2010 followed by two times in 2011.
He has now been placed in an immigration detainer by ICE.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

Uncommon Sense

Sometimes you liberals argue over points that are so facially absurd that you'd never even consider doing what you advocated for.  If you ever told your wife that you intended to cross into Mexico illegally with her child, I'll be a monkey's uncle if you made it past the front door before she called the Police to come arrest you.  Stop arguing mind numbing nonsense.  Join the rest of us in the real world where some modicum of common sense must be applied.  Please tell me you wouldn't take your own infant child into the middle of nowhere with only the clothes on your back so I can sleep at night.

Taking a child who can't even walk tens of miles, let alone hundreds or even thousands of miles, into a desert with little to no food and water on foot qualifies as gross negligence, at a minimum.  If you did that to break the law by crossing the border into another country illegally, then no judge I know of wouldn't call that child endangerment, unless partisan politics became involved.

Build The Wall

Apparently we don't all know that a wall will be defeated, or former President Obama would've had them removed from the White House.  After he left office, he for sure wouldn't live in a house with a ten foot high steel fence around it.

"Parent" or "Child Sex Slave Trafficker"?

In case you didn't already know we now separate the children from parents who illegally enter the US because we typically have no way of knowing the relationship between the child and the person they're with.  There have been too many cases where "the parents" turn out to be "the child sex slave traffickers".

Pity Parties

The "transgendered" man from Honduras that the rest of us are supposed to feel sorry for was convicted of multiple crimes (theft, lewd conduct, and prostitution) after he illegally entered into the US several times and he was also previously deported three times (2005, 2009, 2014).

Dressing and acting like a woman when you're actually a man doesn't entitle you to receive special treatment, but here in the US of A, he did receive special treatment, at great expense to the American tax payer.  No word yet about exactly why he died, but contracting HIV from having unprotected sex with what was likely hundreds of men, given that he was a prostitute, may have had something to do with it.  If you're going to try to make a case as to why we need to import more people like him, then you should really pick someone who wasn't convicted of multiple crimes and deported three times.  In any event, he died in a hospital receiving care far beyond what he'd receive in his home country.

According to you, these people are otherwise just law abiding citizens looking for a break.  If this man left El Salvador and immigrated illegally because he was gang raped by street thugs who also killed his father, as he claims, then that kinda supports President Trump's statement that he came from a hell hole country (I'm paraphrasing here to avoid triggering any perpetually offended people).

Vietnamese Deportees

The Vietnamese man from the story you referenced was convicted of a sex crime against a child under 14 in 2000 and then convicted of DUI in 2007.  Now he's being deported back to Viet Nam.  It seems like he made a series of exceptionally poor decisions while he lived here and now he's lost that privilege since Vietnam wants him back.

Also from the story:

"As of December 2017, there were more than 8,600 Vietnamese nationals residing in the United States subject to a final order of removal, 7,821 of who have criminal convictions, according to ICE. As of April 12, ICE has removed 76 Vietnamese nationals to Vietnam in fiscal year 2018 and had 156 Vietnamese nationals in detention."

So much for your false claim that President Trump is a racist.  Why don't you post some stories about the white criminals from Europe that we routinely deport back to their home countries after they commit felonies?  Is it because a white racist can't be racist against other white people?  I think liberals have well and truly invalidated that argument.  Maybe we're just getting rid of foreign national criminals and don't care what color skin they happen to have.

Closing Arguments

You're insinuation that the criminals we're deporting are just a bunch of poor people with the wrong skin color who are being singled out by a racist President is not well supported by the articles you linked to.  I didn't even bother reading all of them because the two I did read fly in the face of your previous claims about who these people are and what the US government did versus what they did to themselves.  We really have no way of knowing who they are because we have no ID and thus no criminal background check since they couldn't be bothered to follow our silly laws regarding immigration.

Anyone who isn't totally dumbstruck by what they see through their RBX ideological prescription blinders on can see right through this silliness.

I could care less about the DUI's, but if these people come here and sell children as sex slaves, rape people, steal from people, and murder people, then I want them gone ASAP.  If they came in the legal way, then we'd know exactly who they were and what they did before they came here.  Since so many don't, thus there's no way to know who is who, and one political party completely opposes doing anything constructive about the very real problems, I'm not onboard with that.  Let's apply some uncommon sense here.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

Common sense left all those that took the journey long before the first hundred miles of walking from their starting point in efforts to Flee...

We do need to solve to whom the bad are and not harm the good...

All people have rights and to be in denial of those rights is not what America was founded on..

Trump migrant family separations protested as U.S. is accused of violating human rights; The U.S. is violating "well established Inter-American standards," such as rights to family and to seek asylum and protection," said petitioners.

Immigrant detainees, many from migrant caravan, write letter condemning detention centers; “We demand that CCA treats us like the humans that we are,” referring to the private prison company.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

The rights of one person end where they infringe upon the rights of another person.  If you read and understood the intent of our Constitution, not necessarily how our government implemented it, that point is crystal clear.  The people of the United States have the right to be protected from foreigners who would harm them.  The protection of the people is the first duty and responsibility of any constitutional government.  The people being deported are criminals.  The people in the stories you linked to were being deported over felonies, not parking tickets.  Nobody has a human right to travel to America because human rights are not involved here.  It's a simple matter of consistently practiced international law.  When you enter into a country, you agree to abide by the laws of that country.  If not, then you can go back to where you came from.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

This is of concern as Signs of sophisticated cellphone spying found near White House, U.S. officials say

A federal study found signs that surveillance devices for intercepting cellphone calls and texts were operating near the White House and other sensitive locations in the Washington area last year.

A Department of Homeland Security program discovered evidence of the surveillance devices, called IMSI catchers, as part of federal testing last year, according to a letter from DHS to Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) on May 22. The letter didn't specify what entity operated the devices and left open the possibility that there could be alternative explanations for the suspicious cellular signals collected by the federal testing program last year.

The discovery bolsters years of independent research suggesting that foreign intelligence agencies use sophisticated interception technology to spy on officials working within the hub of federal power in the nation’s capital. Experts in surveillance technology say that IMSI catchers — sometimes known by one popular brand name, StingRay — are a standard part of the tool kit for many foreign intelligence services, including for such geopolitical rivals as Russia and China.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

Infringement....Trump leaked details of a report on the economy against normal protocol which is a crime but that relly is true to his formas he will just say he is above the LAW that he is the LAW...but the economy is not good as more Kmart stores, Sears, Local pharmacy, IHOP, AppleBee are continuing to close and there are more asa result of the tarriff wars which are causing business to close as well....
The was have begun with a section needing replacement in San Diego with improvements for the 14 miles of improvised border fencing in Border Field State Park in San Diego, California. The new feature will start half a mile from the Pacific ocean and will stand between 18-30 feet tall. Construction on San Diego section of US border wall begins, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says

The construction in San Diego follows projects already underway on two miles of wall in Calexico, California and 20 miles of wall in Santa Teresa, N.M and is the third section for building

I said that the wall is not a fix and here are 5 Problems ‘the Wall’ Won’t Solve, No matter how “big” and how “beautiful” it is, Trump's pet project is going to be largely ineffectual.

Yes/No post of others http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-a-bor … mmigration

Illegal Mexicans going past old wall and capture images Some of the wall conditions are laughable...

update:

Trump touts San Diego border wall, but there’s a hole in this success story

Talks about the effects that a wall will not stop even with the old wall...

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

You voiced little concern about former Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, keeping a server with classified State Department information on it in her house.  Now you're worried about President Trump talking about the number of jobs added to the economy?  Give me a break.

Regarding your links to problems that a lack of border enforcement has created, a border wall will reduce the number of places where illegal immigrants can enter into the US, a wall can be monitored for crossings, and the number of deportations will eventually go down as a result of decreasing the number of places illegal immigrants can enter into the US.

If walls are good enough for former President Obama's mansion, then they're good enough for America.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

Server arguement again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_C … ontroversy
Private versus Federal server security first hand I can say are no different as the OPM and other agencies were and have been hacked...
Classification  markings of secret, top secret headers ect were missing from all but possible 3 emails which had confidential markings out of thousands on the server which were marked as such after reclasification of them.
FACT: None Of The Emails Sent To Clinton Were Labeled As "Classified" Or "Top Secret"
FACT: Emails Originated In State Dept. System, And Questions About Retroactive Classification Would Have Occurred Regardless Of Clinton's Server Use

The very government issued smart phones that are being used by all in washington are now being leaked as I meantioned in post 1606 which is classified conversation and data to which these are all run through private servers and telecom equipment.

So the government once again still is lagging with regards to technology use, security ....

The devices were found inside the walls that surround the White House as well as and other “sensitive facilities”. The International Mobile Subscriber Identity (IMSI) catchers work by simulating phone towers to “trick nearby phones into connecting,” which allows the devices to “collect calls, texts and data streams,”.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

Stripping the classification markings off of a classified message doesn't make the contents of the message unclassified, it just means that the people involved in doing that are guilty of a more serious and deliberate crime.  The use of inappropriate communications technology for classified communications is not relevant to deliberate circumvention of the controls in place to protect classified information.  Stop trying to conflate different issues.

Former Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton, was not accused of having a classified E-Mail or two on her Blackberry after accidentally receiving a classified message from some careless staffer.  Furthermore, no "intent" is necessary for a crime to have been committed.  Nobody asked Manning or Snowden what they intended to do because it doesn't matter as far as the law is concerned.

FACT: The US State Department has classified E-Mail servers for the storage of classified E-Mail and whether or not you think the protections for those systems are adequate does not entitle you to use your own classified E-Mail server

FACT: The Director of the FBI testified before Congress that 81 E-Mail chains were marked with classification markings and contained classified information

FACT: The information on the E-Mail server was deliberately destroyed after it was subpoenaed by the Justice Department

FACT: There is no such classification marking called "Classified" and there never has been

FACT: It doesn't matter whether or not 1, 10, 100, or 1,000 classified E-Mails are transmitted to an unauthorized device, each occurrence is still a federal crime and anyone else would be put in federal prison for doing that if law enforcement found out about it, but federal law enforcement did find out about it and did nothing under the Obama administration

FACT: A private server in your bathroom is NEVER, EVER, or AT ALL permitted to be used to store classified information, even if your name is Hillary Clinton

RobertDyck

Moderator

From: Winnipeg, Canada

Registered: 2002-08-20

Posts: 7,928

Website

Re: Politics

Blah blah, email server, blah blah. Look, many senior government officials had a private email server. General Colin Powell, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. The reason is political opponents will try to gain unauthorized access to search through emails for malicious purposes. The fact you argue about what was contained in that private email server demonstrates why it was private. Political opponents ARE the enemy.

Why do Americans always obsess over irrelevant crap? Bill Clinton did a lot of real things wrong when he was president, but Americans ignore all that and instead obsess over a blowjob. Hillary did a lot of real things wrong, Whitewater for one, but instead you obsess over an email server. Those demanding access to the email server *ARE* the enemy of the state that had to be kept out. Yes, I said the bureaucrats who demand access to the email server are "enemy of the state".

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

Rob,

If they had classified information on their personal servers, then they should also be prosecuted.  Politics is not an acceptable excuse for mishandling of classified information.  I "obsess" over that because I would still be in federal prison if I did what she did while I was in the Navy.  Incidentally, the FBI demanded access to the E-Mail server.  The FBI is not obligated to hand over materials seized during investigations to bureaucrats.  Last time I checked, the FBI is and must be free to investigate federal employees suspected of mishandling classified information.  That wasn't political before the Obama administration.  The Bush administration's justice department tried and convicted Scooter Libby for the same crime.  He blurted out something classified on TV, realized he made a mistake and lied about it, and was subsequently tried, convicted, and sentenced to prison.  That's exactly what should have happened to Hillary Clinton and whomever was sending classified E-Mails to her private E-Mail account with the classification header markings stripped off.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

For Official Use Only (FOUO)

WEB SERVER SECURITY TECHNICAL IMPLEMENTATION GUIDE 11 December 2006 Developed by DISA for the DoD Version 6, Release 1

section 2.3 Private and Public Web Servers pg 20 of the PDF...

UNCLASSIFIED

No fear Kristian Saucier, the former sailor who served one year in prison for taking photos of classified areas inside a nuclear submarine, has been pardoned by Trump.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

FOUO, or Foo-Yoo as we called it, is not classified information.  It's not something that can be released to the public and there are criminal penalties for doing so, but it's not classified.  Most of the things that are classified, although clearly not all of them (like warrantless wire taps of all Americans), are classified for a good reason.

President Trump pardoned a sailor who made a careless, unthinking mistake and then tried to destroy the evidence.  That sounds a lot like what Secretary Clinton did, except she never went to jail for it and Kristian Saucier did.  Former President Obama commuted the prison sentence of Bradley Manning, and his actions were blatant intentional release of classified information to unauthorized persons or entities, yet I never heard you make a peep about it.  Is it because Bradley Manning and Hillary Clinton are Democrats?

If you mishandle classified information, but you're a Democrat, you have a get-out-of-jail-free card?  Otherwise, do not collect $2M off your book deal and go directly to jail.  Before this became political, we simply tried and convicted people who did stupid or intentional criminal things with classified information and it wasn't an issue.  Why did it become an issue now?

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

No it's a marking of classification...

Who is Bradley Manning as I do not hear everything or get to read about everything, never mind I will go find out myself about Him...oh never said Hillary so get a free pass...

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

FOUO is not classified information, nor is it a classification marking.  It's a dissemination control marking that may appear on UNCLASSIFIED information.  The classification markings only includes information that is considered to be UNCLASSIFIED, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET, or TOP SECRET.  There are lots of other markings with different meanings, dissemination controls being one such example.

If you want to understand a little bit more about classification markings, then you can read this:

Marking Classified Information Job Aid

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

All the Trump talk about being able to Pardon GOP to Trump: Impeachment, Outrage if You Self-Pardon with  GOP senators: A president can obstruct justice but it may come down to The odds are high that the Trump administration may hinge on a Supreme Court decision

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

Were you able to figure out how classification markings work using the job aid I provided?

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

It appears from pg 20 emails are as created marked by the one going to send the email and or a program that is an add in for the email program is looking a keyword language to be put in before transmission of the email to the recieptent. It is also defeated when a scanned document is brought in as a pdf image that is attached for others with the email as its not scannable by the software for the marking or for the language varification that triggers the marking.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,826

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

Automated systems can be defeated in a variety of ways, but it depends upon which system is in use.  There are a lot of disparate systems in use.  When I was in the Navy, we still had teletypes on our ships from WWII and learned Morse Code, and were required to demonstrate the ability to use them to pass through Radioman A School.  Some of this stuff really took me back.  It's hard to believe it's been 20 years.  Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

Huricanes cycle has begun and yet we still have people without a home to live in...and power issues
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/puert … ut-n880356

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Politics

just another pardon
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald … im-n880291

then again the border is a busy place still
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/de … ay-n880686