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#1 2017-09-29 10:44:27

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 265

U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

The following track presentation was given at the 20th Mars Society convention.

Click on the link to view the entire video.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7xZnUqklVM

Last edited by EdwardHeisler (2017-09-29 21:30:49)

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#2 2017-09-29 17:32:43

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 3,817

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Shouldn't that read: "The US should end its ban on NASA working with a Communist-military dictatorship that opposes US international policy, engages in wholesale commercial espionage and copyright theft, locks up political dissidents, undertakes illegal occupation of land and has provided lifeline support to the North Korean dictatorship".


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#3 2017-09-29 19:22:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 12,701

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Ya and thats just the beginning of why we should not trust them but the link is also in edit mode so can not view the video....

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#4 2017-09-29 19:28:18

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 265

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Sorry you couldn't see the actual video.   What can I do to take it out of "edit" mode so that you and others can view the presentation?

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#5 2017-09-29 19:58:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 12,701

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Try this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7xZnUqklVM to view the video...

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#6 2017-09-30 03:53:19

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,849
Website

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

louis wrote:

Shouldn't that read: "The US should end its ban on NASA working with a Communist-military dictatorship that opposes US international policy, engages in wholesale commercial espionage and copyright theft, locks up political dissidents, undertakes illegal occupation of land and has provided lifeline support to the North Korean dictatorship".

Didn't they do some space manoeuvres with them during the Cold War, though? The Soviets, that is.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#7 2017-09-30 11:15:43

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,185
Website

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

China buys stuff from the Russians,  then redesigns it better and produces it for themselves.  Their Shenzou spacecraft is an update or retailoring of the Russian Soyuz spacecraft,  for example.  They used their own rocket for it,  deciding against trying to copy the R-7.  Long March is quite different from R-7. 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#8 2017-09-30 11:47:18

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 265

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

European Space Agency and China Astronauts Train Together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag6jpXIUUaQ

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#9 2017-09-30 12:01:35

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 265

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

SpaceX sidesteps ban on working with China

SpaceX has circumvented a US-imposed ban on space collaboration with China. In 2011, NASA was banned from collaborating with taikonauts (Chinese astronauts).   Because SpaceX is a private multinational company, the ban did not apply, and this is not the first time they’ve worked with China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaT3ukZsJM8

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#10 2017-09-30 12:15:08

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 265

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Former NASA chief, Charles Bolden, called for partnership with China in space program.

The US needs to cooperate more with China.
That's according to NASA chief Charles Bolden, who recently urged his country to cooperate with China in the US's human space programs. Bolden made the remarks on Monday during the International Astronautical Congress. Otherwise, he warned, the U.S. would face being left out of new ventures to send people beyond the International Space Station.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vaVYHIr9aY

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#11 2017-09-30 12:19:53

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 265

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

China, Russia set to ink landmark deal for manned moon missions

Published on Aug 27, 2017
China and Russia are set to sign a milestone agreement on joint space exploration from 2018 to 2022. The deal is expected to be signed this October and will bring significant benefits to both nations, particularly in manned and future missions to the moon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX4eDhVSra4

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#12 2017-09-30 15:24:21

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 12,701

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Have moved this topic to the approprate topic location to allow for the discusion to continue.

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#13 2018-05-14 21:58:20

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 265

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

louis wrote:

Shouldn't that read: "The US should end its ban on NASA working with a Communist-military dictatorship that opposes US international policy, engages in wholesale commercial espionage and copyright theft, locks up political dissidents, undertakes illegal occupation of land and has provided lifeline support to the North Korean dictatorship".

What is Trump international policy this week or this hour?

So Chinese "communists" are promoting domestic and foreign capitalist investments in China!    If they are one can no longer call them communists or even pinkos!   They are rejecting the major elements of a non-capitalist economy.      Why have entire sectors of the Chinese economy been privatized?   Is Russia also a communist nation?  How can a capitalist class and billionaires even exist in a hardcore 100% "communist" China?      And if that is the objective reality in China today, it would make just as much sense to claim that Wall Street and corporate capitalists are leading a communist revolution to destroy capitalism in the United States!

China has a rapidly expanding capitalist economy with tight government controls that give them an edge in world trade and competition..     If China had remained outside of capitalist world economies with a planned nationalized economy, the United States would not be competing with China in trade and capitalist world markets today.

Last edited by EdwardHeisler (2018-05-14 21:59:54)

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#14 2018-05-16 08:40:30

kbd512
Member
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 1,977

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

EdwardHeisler,

The government of China is communist because they say so and won't permit any other form of governance to exist in China.  Whether or not individual corporations are permitted to exist with the express approval of the government does not change their system of governance.  If you lived in China and decided that you didn't like President Trump, but the government did, then they'd put you in jail or execute you if that thought ever escaped your three pound universe.  You may say whatever you want about President Trump here in America and as long as you don't threaten him, nobody really cares.  We won't use the power of the state to silence opposing opinions, or at least we didn't until former President Obama of the regressive Democrat Party came along and tried to use our IRS to silence potential critics.

Wealthy Jews who owned munitions factories were permitted to continue doing what they did in support of Nazi Germany.  That didn't make Germany's government during Hitler's reign any less national socialist than it was.  Wealthy oligarchs also existed in the Soviet Union and in communist China of today.

A few people in the Chinese government were intelligent enough to recognize that communism / socialism / whatever-you-want-to-call-it-ism wasn't producing the economic productivity that the utopians promised their lemmings.  Too bad tens of millions of lemmings had to die before their communist "murderership" (they've never had "leadership") realized that they couldn't murder their way to economic prosperity for all.  That's a minor detail for people who promote and perpetuate that failed system of governance.  The "proof" it's failed is their adoption of capitalist economic principles.  If they hadn't murdered everyone in academia or put them to work on farms, there's little doubt in my mind that they'd be a world superpower in the economic sense.  Unlike you, their government officials had the uncommon sense to recognize failure for what it is and change a few of their operating procedures.

Meanwhile, the adult children (our own lemmings) we have in the colleges here in America are pining for this utterly failed economic governance system because they don't want to work for what they've been brainwashed into believing that they're entitled to by their evil communist professors.  This new crop of lemmings / communists / socialists also think they're entitled to what other people earn and they tell other people what to think and what to say, and think nothing of threatening other people with violence or actually using violence over a difference of opinion.  Where have I seen such behavior before?  Anyway, their ideology sounds like an ingenious plan to make everyone poor and ignorant, thus "equal", but pretty useless for anything worth doing.

Your precious communists don't have any edge in trade or competition unless they're the only game in town, but thankfully they're not.  They're reasonably good at stealing things, but have little to no creativity and wouldn't know any better if someone fed them bad information.  You wouldn't be using an internet or a computer without evil baddy-bad capitalist America.  None of those morons in commie land would ever dream of designing a system that allows someone like you to voice your ignorant opinions for the entire world to see.  Until communist China became "capitalist", they were mostly starving to death and living like people did in the 1800's.  In other words, their lives were short, bleak, and brutal.  Before the US sold or simply gave them silly things communists never thought of as important, like center-pivot irrigation, farming equipment, and pharmaceuticals to eradicate diseases or treat something as simple as respiratory infection, it was pretty close to hell on Earth or North Korea (What's the difference?).  We use them as inexpensive laborers because even that little bit of money that they do earn by working to produce the things we use is a step up in life for them.

The politicians / spies who came here from the Soviet Union during the Cold War couldn't believe that Americans, in general, could say whatever they wanted to say about their government, owned guns, lived in houses they owned, drove cars they owned, could travel anywhere they wanted to go without having to present anything more than a driver's license to the Police, could fly anywhere they couldn't drive, and could become as wealthy as their skill and ingenuity would permit.  A lot of them never wanted to leave and I can't say I blamed them.

In the 20th century, the US or our capitalist allies designed and developed the following:

center pivot irrigation to radically reduce water usage and improve crop yield
drugs, medical devices, and pesticides to eradicate diseases, diagnose and treat traumas, and ensure that we don't starve to death
affordable personal transportation
passenger jet aircraft to permit global travel
integrated circuits (microchips) for computerized control systems
digital computer hardware based upon integrated circuits
computer software capable of solving nearly any mathematical problem a human could accurately model
an internetwork of computerized systems to permit client/server sharing of information
cellular networks to connect portable computerized communications devices
cellular telephones to connect people and services
internetworking software to permit everything from video sharing to commerce using a computer or cell phone

That list of accomplishments fundamentally transformed the world, even in communist countries.

In the 20th century, communism / socialism / national socialism (racist socialism) designed and developed the following:

A system for oppressing, enslaving, and murdering at least 200 million people, not including people who simply died of preventable disease and starvation

There it is.  That's the big long list of technological accomplishments from old world thinking.  Nobody outside of a communist military ever benefited from their military industrial complex, unless an early death is considered to be a benefit of that system of governance.  The Chinese, in general, grew tired of living like peasant farmers and adopted capitalistic economic operating principles because life was even worse than it is today without technological innovation created by capitalism.

Pick up a history book and learn something.  Feel free to continue spewing your ignorant ideological nonsense after you learn enough to write something factual about this subject.  Until then, we don't need to help the Chinese develop their military industrial complex.  They're enough of a threat to themselves and others as is.

Fun Fact:

Before we allowed rocket motor technology to be transferred to China in an attempt to advance their space program in order to obtain cheap satellite launches from them, the people who invented gun powder couldn’t make a large solid rocket motor that would function as intended more than about half of the time.  After we thoughtlessly permitted transfer of that technology to China, the Chinese then used that technology in their intercontinental ballistic missile rocket motors.

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#15 2018-05-16 16:37:59

kbd512
Member
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 1,977

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

The Latest Attempt at Communist Utopia:

The Kellogg Corporation announced today that it is shuttering its facility in Venezuela because the facility there is unable to simply pay the operating costs associated with keeping that plant open as a function of the runaway inflation that has plagued the communist utopian fantasy land, formerly known as Venezuela, where the average adult has lost 36 pounds during the last year.

Both children and adults are literally starving to death in the streets of Venezuela, a country with more oil than ever existed in Saudi Arabia to begin with.  For the uneducated amongst us, EdwardHeisler, this is what communism produces.  Lots of dead bodies from starvation, dehydration, disease, and murder.  Death and destruction on a massive scale is the entire extent of what communism is good for.

The communist Maduro dictatorship called Kellogg's decision "unconstitutional" and "illegal", seized the plant (that popular theme common to all communists, theft of private property), claiming he would hand it over to the workers to feed the people.  Apparently, it's "illegal" to stop producing when operations can no longer merely pay for the workers employed there.  The communist dimwit running Venezuela, I mean President Maduro, further stated that the US government is engaging in "economic warfare" against Venezuela.  After you run out of other people's money, they're just supposed to keep working for you at a loss to themselves.

Nationalize everything, watch the economy take a complete crap because the morons in charge (the arrogant and ignorant people who think they're so much smarter than everyone, but never have been, nor ever will be) are barely capable of wiping their rear ends without assistance, and everything else rapidly devolves into anarchy, which is a mix of mass murder and mass death.

If only these communists were intelligent enough to accept help.  Columbian President Santos is asking Venezuela's President Maduro to accept foreign aid from the US, the UN, the Catholic Church, or even neighboring countries.  Apparently Columbia doesn't have enough food, water, and medicine to support hundreds of thousands to a few million people dropped on their doorstep overnight due to the smashing success of communism in Venezuela.  Meanwhile, Columbia is doing the best it can to provide for their neighbors, except now the Venezuelan government has stopped issuing travel permits that allow hungry Venezuelans to cross the border for relief.

Watch and learn, Tiger.  These people are living through your dream of communist utopian fantasy land.  I must say that it looks more like a total nightmare from my perspective, but then again I'm also sane and rational.

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#16 2018-05-20 03:27:10

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 879

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Meanwhile, in Northern Brazil, according to recent reports on the BBC, the hospital in Boa Vista is overrun with Venezuelans seeking treatment as the facilities in their own country collapse.
It won't be long before we see the minefields and barbed wire being installed to retain the workers in the worker's paradise. And the next Venezuelan election will produce at least a 95% majority for Maduro's party. We have seen this syndrome several times in recent history. eg Zimbabwe, North Korea, the Soviet Empire, Mao's China.

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#17 2018-05-20 05:52:46

kbd512
Member
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 1,977

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Elderflower,

Sadly, you're probably right.  That failed ideology of communism / socialism only functions at all by intimidating the people with government-sponsored mass murder.  That activity is already well underway in Venezuela.  It's sickening to see the photos of their kids starving to death because their government won't accept foreign aid from nations that are completely willing provide it.  If I lost 36 pounds I'd look like one of those concentration camp victims and the people of Venezuela have probably never had a meal as good as the ones I have every day.  Maybe the US Air Force should just start air dropping food to their people and not worry about what Venezuela's government thinks about it.

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#18 2018-05-23 03:19:06

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 879

Re: U.S. Should End the Ban on NASA Working With China's Space Scientists

Unfortunately, if I lost 36 pounds I would look fit.
Food drops by the US would be portrayed as a provocation and would play into Maduro's stories of foreign imperialism. He would get a load of second hand Migs or Bukhs, given to him by guess who, and would use them if he could find anyone to operate them.
Food deliveries would need to be done by charitable foundations, or maybe by neighbouring states.

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