Communism - Any Communists in here?

MarsGuy2012 · 2003-04-03 09:57:09

Thanks for all the replies to my libertarian post. I suppose the two law system is a bit extreme, but I'd say it would be a big improvement on the current system.

If things worked idealogically I'd be a communist, though. The sad thing is communism has never been practiced by a country as a whole. It has just been dictatorship or oligarchy under the name "communism" to confuse the masses. A few religious groups have practiced a form of communism that approach the real spirit of the system. My understanding of the spirit of communism is: Everyone works at what their best at, and everyone uses what they need. If you can't produce enough to sustain yourself you still get what you need from the others.

The most notable I can think of are the Mormons (Latter-Day Saints). They called it the 'United Order'. For a few years the small church pooled its resources (a 100% tithe) to support its members. Everyones standard of living was good while it lasted. But even a cohesive, homogenous religious group couldn't handle it. Some members were still to selfish to contribute 100% of their property. I don't blame them - there were some pretty wealthy converts. So, after a few years of the United Order 'the tablets were broken' you could say, and tithing (10%) became the norm.

I'm sure other religous (or other) groups have tried similar systems. Any examples out there?

By the way, in another thread I advocated sending cohesive groups like this to colonize Mars in the early years. It would help with the psychological pressures.

Civilization and Culture -> What will society on Mars be like?

dicktice · 2003-04-03 11:26:04

I always thought it sounded better when it was pronounced: commune-ism. But when any single person is allowed to take over control (which is inevitable)...it very soon becomes totalitarian-ism, and I say to hell with it!

Palomar · 2003-04-03 11:45:10

I always thought it sounded better when it was pronounced: commune-ism. But when any single person is allowed to take over control (which is inevitable)...it very soon becomes totalitarian-ism, and I say to hell with it!

*Yeah. I think Communism will, for a long time, be automatically associated with Stalin. Not good "PR."

Leon Trotsky had an interesting and, I feel, genuine view of communism; I think he was sincere (based on what I've read about him)...but he was vilified by Stalin & Co., portrayed by them as "the enemy of True Communism," and forced into exile.

The enemy was Stalin, not Trotsky.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-03 14:10:23

I've been called a Pinko Commie before, but I really don't qualify. I'm more of an individualist (believe it or not). But since I work and live in a capitalist society, I am a capitalist. My political inclinations are anarchist, but we're not there yet and may not be in our lifetimes.

Gennaro · 2003-04-07 17:07:11

Leon Trotsky had an interesting and, I feel, genuine view of communism; I think he was sincere (based on what I've read about him)...but he was vilified by Stalin & Co., portrayed by them as "the enemy of True Communism," and forced into exile.

Err... you sure about that? After all, Leon Trotsky was part of a terrorist political system (in the true sense of the word) which killed millions long before the demise of Lenin, because from the outset it was at war with its own people. I hardly think there is anything Stalin could have done to "vilify" a person like Trotsky.

Palomar · 2003-04-07 19:22:31

Leon Trotsky had an interesting and, I feel, genuine view of communism; I think he was sincere (based on what I've read about him)...but he was vilified by Stalin & Co., portrayed by them as "the enemy of True Communism," and forced into exile.
Err... you sure about that? After all, Leon Trotsky was part of a terrorist political system (in the true sense of the word) which killed millions long before the demise of Lenin, because from the outset it was at war with its own people. I hardly think there is anything Stalin could have done to "vilify" a person like Trotsky.

*Hi. I did take care to state "based on what I've read" in my previous post. I'm certainly nowhere near to being an authority on the matter.

I'd have to go back to the book and its sources. By the "terrorist political system" and the "killed millions" are you referring to the Bolshevik Revolution?

I'll probably be over my head here soon...

--Cindy

Gennaro · 2003-04-08 03:20:08

Hi Cindy!
This is the first time I recieve a reply from you (I think). I often find your posts spot on and besides I tend to side with Voltaire as well.
Don't worry, we don't have to be authorities on everything (I certainly am not) and I wasn't really after Trotsky's personal mores. It's just that he had close personal ties to a political monster by the name of Lenin and raised a red army which besides fighting the Whites was primarily concerned with suppressing, starving and murdering the peasant population. As a consequence, workers who used their right by law and went on strike for a loaf of bread and a minimum of human dignity, were shot at as well or sent to concentration camps by the hundreds of thousands. Trotsky, to put it bluntly, was one of those people who created a system demanding universal praise, but where you'd get shot through the neck for stealing a bicycle.
Not every dictatorship, broadly speaking, need in principle be a parasite sucking the life blood of the host nation, but in the case of the Bolshevik state I have to say there's a tree you'll know by its fruit.

I'd have to go back to the book and its sources. By the "terrorist political system" and the "killed millions" are you referring to the Bolshevik Revolution?

- Evidently, yes.

As for books, the Soviet system has taken surprisingly long to be recognized for its true nature, especially among western intellectuals (which is actually rather shameful). Barbara Tuchmann, a writer I'm personally very fond of, for example wrote this as late as 1981:

"The record of the Russian proletariat in power can hardly be called enlightened, although after sixty years of it in control it must be accorded a kind of brutal success. If the majority of Russians are materially better off than before, the cost in cruelty and tyranny has been no less and probably greater than under the tzars."

Whatever could she have meant by "probably" in the final sentence?
To me that refers back to a state of mind where the great helmsman 'was at least on the good side' and there was no question for neither Hemingway or caf? owner Rick of what side to support in the Spanish Civil War etc, despite the fact that Stalin viewed the Republican side as little more than an oppurtunity to create a Communist branch in the western hemisphere.

Palomar · 2003-04-08 08:18:34

Gennaro: "Hi Cindy!
This is the first time I recieve a reply from you (I think). I often find your posts spot on and besides I tend to side with Voltaire as well."

*Hi Gennaro.

Gennaro: "Don't worry, we don't have to be authorities on everything (I certainly am not) and I wasn't really after Trotsky's personal mores. It's just that he had close personal ties to a political monster by the name of Lenin and raised a red army which besides fighting the Whites was primarily concerned with suppressing, starving and murdering the peasant population."

*Hmmmm. Well, I'm really not well versed on the Bolshevik Revolution and its finer details. I read a book about Trotsky a few years ago; I had intended to follow up with more indepth study of him and "the cause," but I got side tracked by...ahem {{Voltaire!}} and 18th century Enlightenment studies...which have all but consumed me (happily so).

I certainly don't want to side with oppression, suppression and etc. The book about Trotsky I read may have been biased in favor of him; it seemed to portray him as an idealist who did little harm and sought to do as little harm as possible. Unfortunately, I'm not very knowledgeable about Lenin and Trotsky's view of/ties to him.

Granted, I've more studying to do on this subject.

--Cindy

Charno · 2003-04-13 21:01:18

The only good communist is a dead communist. And dead you guys would be, if you made the red planet red in more ways than one. Imagine "redistributing" the air and water supply "equally". hahahha. you'd be dead in weeks.

imagine warsaw during the cold war, except the bumbling planners are also responsible for your air and water supply. earth is a planet of finite resources, and mars even more so...

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-13 21:24:15

And yet... Earth manages, quite well, might I add, to feed one country enough food to feed the world three times over... ahh, I smell a strong scent of idiot trolls.

Charno · 2003-04-13 21:29:31

And yet... Earth manages, quite well, might I add, to feed one country enough food to feed the world three times over... ahh, I smell a strong scent of idiot trolls.

No thanks to socialism.

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-13 21:40:35

Hmm, have we been infiltrated?

Gennaro · 2003-04-14 15:16:19

Josh, does that suspicion include me? If so I can assure you such is not the case. Only because nicknames might be familiarly Italian sounding, that does not mean we are related.
I simply have no more patience with terror on Russian or Chinese peasantry than I have for "final solutions" of other people.

Cheers!

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Re: Communism - Any Communists in here?

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