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louis

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2008-03-24

Posts: 7,208

Mars rocket hoppers

In terms of fast transportation of humans around the planet it seems to me that, in the early stages, there are two options: (a) small rocket hoppers and (b) the BFR (working in the same way as Musk's BFR Airline proposal for Earth).

The problem with (b) is really the refuelling issue. You might have got your base going but if you fly off to some distant part of the planet will you have enough fuel to get back? I don't know. Certainly multiple hopping is probably out of the question.

With (a), it seems to be that you could create fuel dumps (e.g. methane and LOX) all over the planet which would allow you to operate quite freely and undertake close range exploration.

Do people have any thoughts on the specifications for rocket hoppers?  I am imagining something like the Apollo Lander but bigger.

Have I got this right - it just feels to me like small rocket hoppers will be less of a logistical nightmare, that you could create fuel dumps more easily. Even if you create the dumps using robot rovers, that has got to be more manageable than using BFRs which have such a huge fuel requirement.

(Fuel means propellant as well here).

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elderflower

Member

Registered: 2016-06-19

Posts: 1,262

Re: Mars rocket hoppers

I do think that fuel dumps will need to have storable fuels. Stuff that doesn't need constant topping up to account for a large loss rate. I very much doubt that that is fulfilled by methane and LOX. My own suggestion was stabilised, 85% peroxide and methanol. GW doesn't like peroxide but it has been used successfully at 85% without incident and cheap silver catalysts can be used at this concentration.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Mars rocket hoppers

We have another hopper topic but in either case the issue is time to make the fuel as the quicker we want it the more energy is required for it to be made. Also making lots of hops requires even more energy to create that fuel. The question is what are the quickest of fuels to make at the lowest level of time and energy required to do so?

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1494

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5243

http://www.pioneerastro.com/MGH/Gashopp … report.doc

elderflower

Member

Registered: 2016-06-19

Posts: 1,262

Re: Mars rocket hoppers

Simplest of all is CO/LOX but performance is not very good (but would be OK for a hopper) and storage is problematic as both are cryogens.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Mars rocket hoppers

Which makes for an energy hog for creation of the fuels from insitu due to the low mars pressure. This is one of those times that nuclear wins as we need fast acquiring of the fuels in short persiods of time between uses. With a solar powered system be good application for the fixed location slow rate of use.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Mars rocket hoppers

Found another topic Martian Gashopper Aircraft

I also recall another topic but that may have been inside the old newmars dates of crash of the forum....

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Mars rocket hoppers

The moxie process creates the possible fuel for mars sub orbit crafts to be created and used early plus it requires no water mining for a trip with all that is required is to super cooling it to liquid.

http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/ … 40Rice.pdf
ADVANCED SYSTEM CONCEPT FOR TOTAL ISRU BASED PROPULSION AND POWER SYSTEMS FOR UNMANNED AND MANNED EXPLORATION

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Mars rocket hoppers