New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#1 2018-02-20 22:12:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,056

What Biome's are needed on Mars

Void had a great question in a sense for the biome's that we need for mars as I meantioned that the biosphere 2 had seven biome areas. Would man only focus on the Land and Sea biome on mars?

To what extent are are these Biome's deployed, as we will not build earth on mars for quite some times but need them parts of each of these for food, processing of waste, and for materials to make use of in expanding mans capabilities on mars.

Biosphere biomes with details of content and why they were included in the earth simulation. I am researching for information as I go....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangrove

450 square meter Mangrove swamps/ wetlands are coastal found in tropical and subtropical regions mainly between latitudes 25° N and 25° s. They are characterized by halophytic (salt loving) trees, shrubs and other plants growing in brackish to saline tidal waters. In these areas, there are usually relatively high temperatures (70-80 degrees Fahrenheit) and significant amounts of precipitation (4.5 meters). The plant life in the mangrove swamps is very diverse. According to National Geographic, there are 70 different species of plants from dozens of different families that you can find in the mangroves.

There are three main types of mangrove plants: white mangrove, black mangrove, and red mangrove.

http://www.bioexpedition.com/wetland-biome/

Mangrove swamps are home to many different species of animals. They sustain billions of worms, barnacles, oysters, and other invertebrates. These organisms draw in other organisms such as fish,birds, pelicans, and even crocodiles.

They are natures filter to pollutants...they transpire fresh water....give habitats to wildlife.... and some of them are a food source for humans...

This needs more research for value in a mars inclusion as we will not have wildlife as such and will be very few animals for quite sometime and chosing just the right ones to include will need more knowledge for transport to mars.


other biomes for research infor mation for inclusion into mars life support and why we need them.

1,900 square meter rainforest

850 square meter ocean with a coral reef

1,300 square meter savannah grassland

1,400 square meter fog desert, and two anthropogenic biomes

2,500 square meter agricultural system and a human habitat with living spaces, laboratories and workshops

Offline

#2 2018-03-09 13:52:32

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 2,442

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

Well this lonely topic needs a reply.

Europa, Enceladus.

In my mind it almost a certainty that we could infect a presumed ocean of Enceladus with some kind of Earth microbe, so I call it a biome.

Easiest possible first Biome.  Harping again, but even if you do not inject chemicals or photons into the ice covered water, there is evidence that water and particularly brine may react with the soil to create chemicals that life can subsist on.  From that then get some of your needed chemistry and also release Methane perhaps.

As for the liquid water, it is a ideal case for storing waste heat, or heat that you collect from the sun and intentionally inject.  Then at night in particular, you can generate electricity by releasing heat to the night sky from the water.

......

I will say this, however, if you covered a patch of ground with even melt temperature water (With ice over it), and it happened that their were clathrates buried under it, I think the heat would penetrate into the ground to release the gasses of the Clathrate much sooner than if you tried to warm the planet just with greenhouse gasses.

If that were the case, then perhaps you could hope to move upscale, maybe to a situation where the polar ice caps were destined to form seas by melting.

As for dry land, I guess we could try to inject water vapor into the high reaches of the Martian atmosphere, and hope that it will photo desiccate into Oxygen and Hydrogen, the Hydrogen then being swept away preferentially.  Then the Oxygen being changed to Ozone. 

However, I am not assured at all that the Ozone would remain separate from CO2.  Then a reaction might just create CO.

But if the atmosphere is stratified enough, and the Oxygen high enough, perhaps Ozone.  I don't count on it.

.....

After that and during that you should hope to inflate the Martian CO2 from the ice caps, and provide an average air pressure outside of 11 mb.  At those pressures, it is speculated that snow, and temporary streams can occur.  And so if you have temporary streams you will have temporary mud, and perhaps even more persisting ponds with muddy bottoms.  At that point it is possible for very radiation tolerant life to exist in the mud, perhaps even to a limited degree exposed to direct sunlight.

From there you punt I guess, we don't know enough about Mars. 

If you get some Ozone, then perhaps something like very a very high arctic biome possible.

Eventually under optimal conditions, I would like to see Steppe on dry land.

But that will likely require processing huge amounts of water vapor in the exosphere/Stratosphere of Mars.  Ideally the water comes from Phobos or Demos.  Otherwise you would have to push it up from the Martian surface.

Pushing it up could involve some kind of a "Gun/Cannon" (Very slow I think).

Hot air vortexes (Very hard I think).

Or, if you could somehow manage to overheat Mars with supergreenhouse gasses, then if you achieved a temperature sufficiently high, then water vapor would come out of the ground and ice caps, and saturate the atmosphere with high humidity and U.V. would eventually generate an Oxygen atmosphere.

If their are Clathrates containing Nitrogen then you would really be in luck.

Last edited by Void (2018-03-09 14:11:17)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

Offline

#3 2018-10-27 14:22:16

jfenciso
Member
From: Philippines
Registered: 2018-10-27
Posts: 57

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

Biomes will appear once the Mars are already terraformed. Types of biomes will be distributed based on their latitudinal gradient.


I'm Jayson from the Philippines. I am a Master's degree student in University of the Philippines Los Banos, Laguna. My major is Botany (specializing in Plant Physiology), and minor in Agronomy. My research interests are Phytoremediation, Plant-Microbe Interaction, Plant Nutrition, and Plant Stress Physiology.

Offline

#4 2018-10-27 18:16:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,056

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

The biomes of early mars are more like a terrarium in that they would be a sealable glass container containing soil and plants, and can be opened for maintenance to access the plants inside.

This is an example of a dry environment:
succulent-terrarium.jpg

or a more typical wet
il_fullxfull.775268983_qdoa.jpg

Offline

#5 2018-10-27 19:08:52

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 2,442

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

A difference between "Western" cultures, and Chinese culture is that the Chinese tend to think in terms of harmony.

While we have probably exhaustively thought with western minds, you have to ask "What does Mars most want to give you".  What can you get the Mostest for with the Leastest effort?

That is why I emphasize under ice aquaculture.

It is obvious that before Mars becomes a forest, it must become a low arctic tundra.  Before a low arctic tundra, a high artic tundra.  Before that Dry Valley photo lakes.  Before that ice covered lakes where light does not shine through.

Yes you can build terrariums, if you have the money and the space suits that are reliable, but that should only be if other needs cannot be satisfied with a reservoir with an opaque cover.

An obvious possible biosphere is the possibility that there is a lake(s) under at least one of the polar ice caps.

Pressurized volume comes at a high price.  Ice covered reservoirs are obviously almost natural to some places on Mars.  So, start the bulk of your production to fill needs there.

That is not to say that you cannot try to have solar and tensile strength pressurized terrariums as well where if fills a spiritual need or a need that ice covered reservoirs or underground "Pink" houses cannot fulfill.

I have not seen one NASA greenhouse design which in a practical way harnesses photons on directly in the environment of Mars.  There must be a reason.

They are typically dirt covered.

https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/livin … ouses.html
https://www.pulseheadlines.com/nasa-dev … ars/62376/
Quote:

To guard the greenhouse against space radiation, the units would likely be buried under surface soil or regolith, which is why they’d require specialized lighting.
“We’ve been successful in using electric LED (light emitting diode) lighting to grow plants,” noted Wheeler. “We also have tested hybrids using both natural and artificial lighting.”
Scientists believe solar light could be captured with light concentrators that are designed to track the sun and then convey the light to the chamber employing fiber optic bundles. Although studies in working on the surface of other planets are being carried on Earth, astronauts aboard the space station have been gaining experience growing crops in space. The first project of this kind was NASA’s Veggie Plant Growth System.

So, so far I only know of one idea that would involve photons traveling through a pressurized transparency.
This is it:
http://www.marsicehouse.com/
And can you imagine how inefficient it would be at getting photons to vegetables?

This is what NASA has in mind:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti … e-for-mars
Quote:

The hydroponics system allows the plants to grow without soil, while artificial light ensures the plants are able to grow efficiently.

The greenhouses will be covered with dirt.

……

OK, if you are going to make a terrarium/greenhouse, I suppose it should be built like the ISS cupola.
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/st … upola.html
Alright what is the profit margin for your carrots?  I expect that cupola is very expensive.

But if you can do it, prove me foolish.  I will praise you.

But I don't believe I have ever heard tell of a greenhouse test on Earth, where a 1/10 bar much less a 1 bar pressurization has been tested.

Not enjoying being a grinch.  hopefully I will be proved a fool over time.

But even then, you would need to show what is more profitable. 
1) Pressurized greenhouse.
2) Dirt covered greenhouse with special lighting methods.
3) Hydrostatic pressurization of a greenhouse with perhaps artificial light LED's.
4) Boring company tunnels as artificial light greenhouses.

But by all means do design a greenhouse for the surface which is productive, and holds pressure long term.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2018-10-27 20:05:34)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

Offline

#6 2018-10-27 20:09:02

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 2,442

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

OK, I have been a wet blanket.

Here is something I can believe in.
The new shepard capsule.  Nice windows.
https://phys.org/news/2017-03-peek-blue … psule.html
So, would the greenhouses have windows like this?
Can you put more windows and less opaque space?

Then, for the cost, will the gardens you can grow pay?

It could happen I suppose with lots of research.

I guess I would like to see an engineering plan.

Last edited by Void (2018-10-27 20:10:50)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

Offline

#7 2018-10-28 00:33:08

jfenciso
Member
From: Philippines
Registered: 2018-10-27
Posts: 57

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

At first, I recommend a dry environment. Saving water is needed inside the colony. So, we should look for plants which are high water-use efficiency. smile


I'm Jayson from the Philippines. I am a Master's degree student in University of the Philippines Los Banos, Laguna. My major is Botany (specializing in Plant Physiology), and minor in Agronomy. My research interests are Phytoremediation, Plant-Microbe Interaction, Plant Nutrition, and Plant Stress Physiology.

Offline

#8 2018-10-28 02:36:33

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,890
Website

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

I don't think the water will be going anywhere. We should be able to recycle it with very high efficiency. If we can extract a lot of water from Mars, then there's no reason to worry about thirsty crops.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Online

#9 2018-10-28 04:35:58

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 929

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

Regarding mangroves. they are not dependent on high rainfall. There are mangroves on the coasts of West Africa and the Red Sea that survive in really low rainfall areas.

Offline

#10 2018-10-28 05:13:09

jfenciso
Member
From: Philippines
Registered: 2018-10-27
Posts: 57

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

Terraformer wrote:

I don't think the water will be going anywhere. We should be able to recycle it with very high efficiency. If we can extract a lot of water from Mars, then there's no reason to worry about thirsty crops.

I agree.


I'm Jayson from the Philippines. I am a Master's degree student in University of the Philippines Los Banos, Laguna. My major is Botany (specializing in Plant Physiology), and minor in Agronomy. My research interests are Phytoremediation, Plant-Microbe Interaction, Plant Nutrition, and Plant Stress Physiology.

Offline

#11 2018-10-28 08:59:41

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 13,056

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

jfenciso, I should have done this the other day...

Welcome to NewMars...

Water and mars are going to be work to obtain as there will need to be a much thicker atmosphere to make it possible for it to stay without freezing and evaporating once frozen by sublimation. There is very little water in the air and what there is will be lost to space over time.

Eco systems for the gardens of mars will be important for future life and sustainability of man on mars as they will be needed in the teraforming process. Getting life that can survive on the surface unprotested will be very important to that task. Systems that survive in dry arid places will be the first to be outside of that protection system of domes, caverns and greenhouses.

The purpose of the domes, caverns and greenhouses are to create that protection from the natural mars hostile environment giving it a chance to take hold. To create the natural life support systems of earth on mars.

Offline

#12 2018-10-28 09:21:10

jfenciso
Member
From: Philippines
Registered: 2018-10-27
Posts: 57

Re: What Biome's are needed on Mars

Thank you SpaceNut for the welcome. I am a new member in this forum. What I will share in this forum are my insights related to Plant Physiology aspect, but I can't share related to the engineering aspect. big_smile

We need to mimic the closed system environment similar to the Biosphere 2. But, we should create in a smaller scale. We need to start from small domes. I recommend caverns but there is no technology that could be transported in Mars. A greenhouse is good but isn't dangerous if duststorm will happen in the colony? I suggest that the growth chamber for crop is better inside the room than planting it in a dome type. As a source of light, I recommend to use LED and the light recipe is based on the study of Massa and Mickens of KSC. In planting a vine crop like potatoes and stringbean, we should follow the study of Massa and Mitchell. To make the light energy from LED will use efficiently.


I'm Jayson from the Philippines. I am a Master's degree student in University of the Philippines Los Banos, Laguna. My major is Botany (specializing in Plant Physiology), and minor in Agronomy. My research interests are Phytoremediation, Plant-Microbe Interaction, Plant Nutrition, and Plant Stress Physiology.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB