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#426 2016-12-01 19:51:04

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

I hope this one did not have the crews Christmas gifts on it as Russia: Space Ship Malfunctions, Breaks Up Over Siberia up at an altitude of 190 kilometers (118 miles) over the remote Russian Tuva region.

Local people reported seeing a flash of light and hearing a loud thud west of the regional capital of Kyzyl, more than 3,600 kilometers (2,200 miles) east of Moscow, the Tuva government was quoted as saying late Thursday by the Interfax news agency.

The Progress cargo ship had lifted off as scheduled at 8:51 p.m. (1451 GMT) from Russia's space launch complex in Baikonur, Kazakhstan, to deliver 2.5 metric tons of fuel, water, food and other supplies. It was set to dock with the space station on Saturday.

Seems that reliable resupply is a bit spotted but hope that will change as there is awaiting list of  Research on Space Station is “excellent”, faces a backlog of requests as a shortage of crew time....

Then I would say its time to expand the station and its crews so that more science can be dne as well as possibly learning how to build from scratch in space......

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#427 2017-01-07 09:40:18

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

The power is being updated with a new set of Batteries... Spacewalking Astronauts Upgrade Station With New Batteries

NASA expects it will take two to three years to change out all 48 nickel-hydrogen batteries that make up the station's solar power system. The lithium-ion batteries are so efficient that only 24 will be needed, saving space for other items during supply runs. Most of the old batteries will be junked along with other station trash in a month, burning up in the atmosphere along with the Japanese supply ship that delivered the new batteries.

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#428 2017-01-14 21:34:22

SpaceNut
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#429 2017-07-04 09:54:09

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

I am sure that this has been talked about but since we see the ISS as a gateway for subassembly build its important that we do keep the station going.

Yes keep what we have going past the current extension via planned replacement of dated modules with upgrades.

Space Station 2024 Extension Expands Economic and Research Horizons

International Space Station gets warranty extension to 2024

The International Space Station’s warranty has been extended to 2024. The announcement, made Wednesday by NASA and the White House, spares the station from being deorbited in 2020 and leaves the door open to keeping it in business through 2028.

Service Life Extension of the ISS Propulsion System Elements

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#430 2017-07-04 10:28:48

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

In 2028, it will have been 30 years since Unity and Zarya, the station’s original two nodes, linked up during STS-88 in 1998.

20140109_unity-zarya_f537.jpg

The ISS Propulsion System, managed by the Russian Segment, makes use of Unsymmetrical Dimethylhydrazine(UDMH) as fuel and Nitrogen Tetroxide (NTO) as oxidizer. With over six tons of propellant storage capacity, FGB serves as a large reservoir of ISS propellants. The Service Module (SM) provides onboard capacity for an additional 860 kilograms of ISS propellants.

Robert eluded to this important feature for use with going for mars.

Now if you want a second space station do not deorbit the old modules when replaced but place them in a bit of a different orbit via ION drive tug and hand them over to the world to make use of.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarya  was a mixed Russian-US funded and Russian-built component launched earlier aboard a Russian Proton rocket from Baikonur, Kazakhstan.

https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/ … /zarya.pdf

The backup built module was later transformed but is still yet to launch.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/s … ed-russia/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_(ISS_module)

https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2010/Is … noffs.html

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#431 2017-07-05 07:06:55

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

louis wrote:

Space X is always in the news now!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … Ocean.html

Another first - use of spacecraft that's been recycled...if I've followed that right. The costometer of space flight must be falling as I write.

The link Louis provided contains ISS experiment information that Nasa is looking at to aid man's trip to mars.

A variety of technological and biological studies returned in Dragon.

The Fruit Fly Lab-02 experiment seeks to better understand the effects of prolonged exposure to microgravity on the heart.

Flies are small, with a well-known genetic make-up, and age rapidly, making them good models for heart function studies.

This experiment could significantly advance understanding of how spaceflight affects the cardiovascular system and could help develop countermeasures to help astronauts.

Samples from the Systemic Therapy of NELL-1 for osteoporosis returned as part of an investigation using rodents as models to test a new drug that can both rebuild bone and block further bone loss, improving crew health.

The Cardiac Stem Cells experiment investigated how microgravity affects stem cells and the factors that govern stem cell activity.

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#432 2017-07-05 14:18:56

Terraformer
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

If they're going to use fruit flies, can't they send up a very small centrifuge with them? It's partial gravity we need data on...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#433 2017-11-27 20:20:34

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

Astronaut Blood May Not Act Weird in Space After All

Astronauts' blood changes in space — but that may not stop them from getting to Mars. Researchers who study space health have long thought astronauts lose red blood cells during extended deployments in space, leading to anemia. The ailment causes fatigue, lightheadedness, shortness of breath and other issues. But a new study shows that astronauts might not be anemic at all while in space — instead, it's a condition that develops when they land. The finding could mean more time safely spent in space, such as a mission to Mars or colonizing the moon would require.

In a new study published Sept. 8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28904800 in the journal BMC Hematology, McMonigal and other NASA researchers analyzed blood samples from astronauts drawn over the course of six-month missions to the International Space Station. The study authors believe this was the first time NASA researchers on the ground had analyzed the blood of astronauts still in space. Researchers based previous findings about spaceflight anemia on blood drawn before and after a mission, but not during.

The team found red blood cell counts and other factors related to anemia seemed to go up slightly and then stabilize over the course of spaceflight, rather than dip, as was assumed. Astronauts who spent more time in space actually seemed to have more stable red blood cell counts during spaceflight, not less, according to the study.

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#434 2018-01-26 20:05:50

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

The International Space Station is one of the few nonstellar things up there that we can see from down here without instruments. It's a prefab home the size of a football field, 462 tons and more than $100 billion worth of pressurized roomlike modules and gleaming solar arrays, orbiting 250 miles above the surface of the Earth.
To which as OldFart has indicated that NASA Still Has No Clear Idea How To Use the International Space Station.

Michael Foale Wants To Save The ISS. He's Not Alone. That does not seem to bethe case for Trump. Senate Gives NASA More Money Than Trump Did By Keith Cowing on July 25, 2017 7:26 PM. "The Senate Appropriations Commerce-Justice-Science (CJS) subcommittee approved $19.5 billion for NASA in FY2018 according to a committee press release.


NASA FY 2019 Budget Hints: ISS Lifespan To Be Limited (Update)

Reaction To Proposed OMB Space Station Funding Cuts

Trump Advisors Send Mixed Signals On ISS Support

What I think should be done is that the commercial payload partners should jointly share the responsibility of care for the station and of its science that still is yet to be done. That they need to create a funding from the science to pay for what needs to be done to keep it afloat. Nasa tried with Casis but they fail as far as I can see to do any thing for the science let alone making it a profitable station for future use.

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#435 2018-01-26 20:34:45

Oldfart1939
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

The ISS, although a great scientific and engineering achievement, is now an ageing and somewhat dated excuse for NASA to keep from doing other more worthwhile and cutting edge projects. Most of the human experimental data should have been accumulated by now, and doing more of the same isn't getting us a single kilometer closer to Mars--or the Moon. If the termination date is set now at 2025, that's OK by me--unless it becomes included as a transfer station for deep space missions. The old original von Braun concept of the space station was as a staging point from which greater missions could originate. Now, the ISS has become an end-all for NASA. International support has been pretty anemic, and as soon as SpaceX and Boeing begin ferrying astronauts to and from it, the Russians will no longer have their cash cow Soyuz vehicle making $70 million per astronaut from the USA. When that occurs, our Russian "partner" will rapidly lose interest.

We need to do something of a spreadsheet analysis, with the benefits on one side of the ledger, versus the expense and upkeep on the other. Question here is: what product or scientific discovery has been beneficial to all humanity as a result of the billions "invested?"

Added in edit: A lot of important research has NOT been done, especially that slanted towards amelioration of null gravity. There is the possibility of sending an artificial gravity experiment for rats, as stated on another thread. Experiments utilizing the Moxie technology for scrubbing/recycling CO2 and restoring the O2 levels. Water recycling experiments. These are all things that SHOULD get done in the remaining 7 years of it's life.

Last edited by Oldfart1939 (2018-01-26 20:40:28)

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#436 2018-01-26 21:38:56

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

This is just one of the reasons that I do not believe in Nasa as its end game is to always dump it into the oceans, send it off into the sun or let it free fall into never never land...Its because of that cost and what nasa does with its toys that makes most people that are of lower income not support nasa's efforts to open up space to all.
The station is actually still viable out to the abitrary date of 2028 when the oldest modules were placed up there.   Sort of like the shuttle was to need a recertification in 2010 for continued use...Unless its failing like the Mir station was its still good enough to make use of it.

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#437 2018-01-26 23:26:40

Oldfart1939
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

If it's good until 2028, then use it in some manner. Private rental of the station for industrial research?

My earlier Mars mission architecture actually made use of the ISS and docked the crew module to the station while some of the assembly occurred. This would essentially allow work on the growing vehicle to take place under fully pressurized conditions internally, and the crew would be flown up to ISS immediately prior to EO departure.

So, yes. I believe we could keep it around, but not pour more and more dollars into some of the marginally useful "research" being done there. In reality, the ISS was the justification for the Shuttle program. It effectively stultified any other missions beyond LEO for years.

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#438 2018-01-27 05:37:50

Terraformer
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

Maybe the US could sell their modules, if they don't want to keep the station? Or just gift them. Perhaps ESA would like to expand their operations.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#439 2018-01-27 06:10:48

elderflower
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

Or Japan, China,  Russia or India. Maybe even North Korea or Iran.

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#440 2018-01-27 07:56:47

Terraformer
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

Would there be any ITAR restrictions on a transfer, though? Perhaps a Commonwealth Space Agency would be the best recipient. The Americans trust Canada and Britain, right?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#441 2018-01-27 10:43:00

GW Johnson
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

There will come a day when the ISS modules and structures become dangerously worn out.  You see it as a wave of failures to be fixed,  just like with an overage car.  In space,  that can be quite dangerous,  because stepping outside doesn't save you. 

We are not there yet,  but eventually we will be,  just as Mir did.  Best guess,  by around 2030-ish. 

Meanwhile,  if we want to accomplish anything that requires on-orbit mission assembly,  the ISS already exists and is thus a good place for the assembly crew to live.  Any space station would serve,  we just happen to have that one. 

We humans spent over $110B putting those 462 tons up there.  That's way more than it would cost today to replace it (assuming we do not turn its replacement into another corporate-welfare project for "old space"). 

That difference is due in small part to it being our first experience with orbital assembly by docking,  but mostly (by far) because inexpensive launchers did not exist then.  They do today, and the per-ton delivered payload price today is some 10-to-100 times cheaper than it was during ISS assembly:  something like $67M/metric ton by space shuttle (for 15-ton items,  higher for smaller stuff).  Compare that to about $7M/metric ton for an Atlas 5 with SRB's flown full at 18 tons,  or $5M/metric ton for an expendable Falcon-9 flown full at 22 tons.

Want a new space station in LEO?  Want it to feature variable levels of artificial gravity?  Don't want to pioneer the assembly of circular structures yet?  Consider using one custom hard-shell center module with flywheels at perhaps $300M to build,  weighing 20 tons.  Then add 6 modified B-330 inflatables from Bigelow at around $100M each,  and around 15-20 tons equipped,  and around 15 m long each.  Dock them together onto one long baton about 100-110 m long.  Launch them with Atlas-5 at $120M per launch as "typical".  The assembly crew lives in them as they assemble. 

Total to buy the modules:  $900M.  Total to launch the modules:  $840M.  Throw in a kitty of $100M to cover ground and space crew operations.  Total price to put it up there:  $1840M = $1.84B,  more than 50 times less expensive than putting ISS up there.

What do you get for this?  Over 2300 cubic meters of pressurized interior volume in a space station massing about 140 metric tons.  Spin the baton at 4 rpm (safe for unacclimatized crews' inner ears),  and you get 1 full gee at each end,  varying linearly down to zero gee at the spin center. 

If the modified B-330's are longer than 15 m (as the current non-spin -330's are),  you get to spin slower. 

For twice the price,  build two and link them at the hard center modules.  Spin them differentially in opposite directions,  and you can delete the flywheels,  although you have to solve the rotating seal engineering problem. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-01-27 11:05:20)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#442 2018-02-04 17:31:39

elderflower
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Posts: 927

Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

Rotating gas seals are quite widely used in industrial compressors and vacuum pumps, for example those made by Crane's. The only restriction is that there must always be some loss of gas- albeit very small- as these things are lubricated by a gas to prevent direct face to face contact. If we are dumping CO or CO2 we might possibly be able to use that.
There will always be some drag between the counter rotating elements, including, not just seals but power transfer arrangements via slip rings or magnetically via transformers and gas flows between modules. You would also need to think about how to transfer masses and people from one rotation to the other.
On the whole I would prefer the simple rotating baton; the longer, the better. KISS applies everywhere.

Last edited by elderflower (2018-02-04 17:42:07)

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#443 2018-02-11 18:54:27

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

Back a few posts I was looking at the end game for the station and how might we turn over the reigns to the public for the stations access and use. This would allow Nasa to redirect 6 billion plus while still having acess to it.
The Trump administration wants to turn the International Space Station into a commercially run venture, NASA document shows

Basically antartica in orbit where you own the rights, priveledge to go and work so long as you help to maintain the since the United States has spent nearly $100 billion to build and operate it.

In its budget request, to be released Monday, the administration would request $150 million in fiscal year 2019, with more in additional years “to enable the development and maturation of commercial entities and capabilities which will ensure that commercial successors to the ISS — potentially including elements of the ISS — are operational when they are needed.”

NASA is studying whether the life of the station could be extended to 2028 or beyond, and Cruz said any decision should hinge on that report.

The ISS is built for science and human exploration, it’s not built for profit seeking,” said Andrew Rush, the chief executive of Made In Space, a company that uses 3-D printing to manufacture objects on the space station. “It will be very hard to turn ISS into a truly commercial outpost because of the international agreements that the United States is involved in,” he said. “It’s inherently always going to be an international construct that requires U.S. government involvement and multinational cooperation.”

Which means you need to start doing construction from this platform with the science still being done.

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#444 2018-02-12 11:29:17

Terraformer
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

I wonder if there's anything worthwhile that could be salvaged from it and incorporated into a new station?

The biggest problem is that there's multiple ownership of the station. Could the US pull out of operating it whilst the Russians continue, or not? Would it even be possible to remove the American modules without damaging the Russian and others modules?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#445 2018-02-12 11:36:06

elderflower
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

This is the great advantage of international cooperation. One nation cannot easily pull out and destroy a project. It has, however, a disadvantage in that international projects that should have been knocked on the head years ago cannot be. F35 springs to mind!

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#446 2018-02-13 21:24:00

Oldfart1939
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Registered: 2016-11-26
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

I suspect that Russian interest in the ISS will diminish after the U.S. again has a means of reaching orbit on a vehicle other that a Soyuz. What are we paying per astronaut for the ride there and back? Last I heard it was $80 Million. Once SpaceX gets the Dragon 2 certified, it's back to being primarily a U.S. space station. Isn't Dragon 2 a 7 seater?

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#447 2018-05-20 18:16:02

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

Like clock work the stations resupply train keeps rolling on with the launches coming from Spaxe x and from Orbital ATK.

It will be Orbital ATK's ninth launch of a Cygnus cargo ship under an 11-flight contract with NASA that is expected to total $2.89 billion, or $262.6 million per flight, according to NASA's inspector general. The company also holds a follow-on contract for at least six resupply missions at an as-yet-unspecified cost.

SpaceX also holds NASA contracts for commercial resupply totaling $3.04 billion for 20 flights, or an average of $152.1 million per flight. Each company has suffered a resupply launch failure, with SpaceX losing a Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon cargo ship in June 2015, eight months after an Antares failure seconds after liftoff in October 2014.


Orbital ATK readies cargo ship for station launch

052018-oa9-setup.jpg

Orbital ATK readied an upgraded Antares rocket for launch Monday from Wallops Island, Virginia, to deliver more than 3 tons of crew supplies, science gear, spare parts and three small satellites to the International Space Station to test miniaturized, low-cost technologies for Earth observation applications.

The experiments headed for orbit include a quantum physics study that will attempt to cool atoms to a billionth of a degree above absolute zero, another to test a novel technique for separating liquids and one devoted to learning more about how concrete settles in the absence of gravity.

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#448 2018-09-04 19:01:28

SpaceNut
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Re: International Space Station (ISS / Alpha)

Recently there was a slow air leak that was found and repair but there seems to be a question as to its cause. Russia says space station leak may be sabotage

Russia launched checks Tuesday after its space chief said an air leak on the International Space Station last week could have been deliberate sabotage.

Space agency chief Dmitry Rogozin said the hole detected Thursday in a Russian space craft docked at the orbiting station was caused by a drill and could have been done deliberately, either back on Earth or by astronauts in space.

Astronauts used tape to seal the leak after it caused a small loss of pressure that was not life-threatening.

"There were several attempts at drilling," Rogozin said late Monday in televised comments, adding that the drill appeared to have been held by a "wavering hand".

"What is this: a production defect or some premeditated actions?" he asked.

"We are checking the Earth version. But there is another version that we do not rule out: deliberate interference in space."

A state commission will seek to identify the culprit by name, Rogozin said, calling this a "matter of honour"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hole-interna … 34282.html

screen-shot-2018-09-04-at-5-44-38-am.png.cf.jpg

Sure looks drilled...

None of the articles say which soyuz launch it was from so as to track down what might have happened....

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