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#1 2018-01-05 13:51:34

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,323

Seasonal Methane on Mars

Some new data have been published regarding traces of Methane in the Martian atmosphere, which seems to have seasonal variations. Published in "Science."

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/01/ … ly-seasons

Last edited by Oldfart1939 (2018-01-05 15:38:59)

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#2 2018-01-05 14:15:29

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: Seasonal Methane on Mars

Do we know where the methane plumes are coming from? It would be very interesting if they were coming from areas rich in ice...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#3 2018-01-05 19:25:06

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 11,540

Re: Seasonal Methane on Mars

Seasonal methane has appeared before so will put single posts first:

2017-10-05 19:05:08

SpaceNut wrote:

Since there is still methane gas being released from mars and the probable water it would make sense that as the water retreated that the methane would cause warming of the planet until the atmospher would be blown away once more causing it to force another releasal of methane as the water continued to sublime away from mars due to the triple point continuing to move for what would keep it at liquid water.

2014-12-27 04:29:08

RGClark wrote:

With the recent reports of liquid water being possible on Mars as brines, I like the Noctis Labyrinthus region because of the frequent low lying fogs:

PIA03213.jpg

  Bob Clark


2004-11-15 12:33:05 A new methane thread - Starting from more recent data

2004-09-20 13:05:15 Possible Mars Life signs - Water Amonia Methane

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#4 2018-01-05 20:39:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 11,540

Re: Seasonal Methane on Mars

If we could find the location on the ground and clear tarp the surface to allow for collection part of the future energy needs are solved by what seems a natural process....

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#5 2018-01-19 07:32:58

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 790

Re: Seasonal Methane on Mars

Methane in the ground likely exists as methane hydrate solid. Since we will need both water and methane, digging it up seems attractive if it is massive. There is an alternative source, which is from volcanic venting, but I don't see how this would be seasonal, whereas shallow hydrate would be expected to respond to seasonal temperature rises with an increase in the rate of breakdown to water ice and gas.

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#6 2018-01-19 18:34:48

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 2,162

Re: Seasonal Methane on Mars

I can't help but intrude.  I will present lots of information.  Not because I assert that it is true, but because it should be part of our assessment of what we should hope to look for.

-Parts of this involve biotic chemistry living off of Hydrogen and Nitrous Oxide generated by a reaction of very cold salt water with soil (@ -13 degC).

-Some of it is completely abiotic.  The final item asserts that the Earths core can generate massive amounts of Hydrogen, and even says the it could have generated our Oxygen atmosphere.

One thing I am comfortable with is that if Hydrogen is generated very deep, it can still seep upwards to the surface over a long period of time.  (Because it is so small).  In seeping up, it may also make connections to Carbon in the rocks and generate Methane.

And then there might be giant amounts of Clathrates > Nitrous Oxide > CO2 > Methane > Ect.  In the Martian permafrost.  We should hope it could be true.

......

Here are the supporting materials:

Hypersaline Lakes
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.4 … .1544/full
Lake Bonney
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Bonney_(Antarctica)
Perchlorate and chlorate biogeochemistry in ice-covered lakes of the McMurdo Dry Valleys, Antarctica
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 371200511X
Well, this is a mouthful, but it is also wonderful.
http://www.pnas.org/content/109/50/20626.full
Quote:

Abstract
The permanent ice cover of Lake Vida (Antarctica) encapsulates an extreme cryogenic brine ecosystem (−13 °C; salinity, 200). This aphotic ecosystem is anoxic and consists of a slightly acidic (pH 6.2) sodium chloride-dominated brine. Expeditions in 2005 and 2010 were conducted to investigate the biogeochemistry of Lake Vida’s brine system. A phylogenetically diverse and metabolically active Bacteria dominated microbial assemblage was observed in the brine. These bacteria live under very high levels of reduced metals, ammonia, molecular hydrogen (H2), and dissolved organic carbon, as well as high concentrations of oxidized species of nitrogen (i.e., supersaturated nitrous oxide and ∼1 mmol⋅L−1 nitrate) and sulfur (as sulfate). The existence of this system, with active biota, and a suite of reduced as well as oxidized compounds, is unusual given the millennial scale of its isolation from external sources of energy. The geochemistry of the brine suggests that abiotic brine-rock reactions may occur in this system and that the rich sources of dissolved electron acceptors prevent sulfate reduction and methanogenesis from being energetically favorable. The discovery of this ecosystem and the in situ biotic and abiotic processes occurring at low temperature provides a tractable system to study habitability of isolated terrestrial cryoenvironments (e.g., permafrost cryopegs and subglacial ecosystems), and is a potential analog for habitats on other icy worlds where water-rock reactions may cooccur with saline deposits and subsurface oceans.

You might consider reading the whole thing.

Clathrates > Nitrous Oxide > CO2 > Methane > Ect.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio … e_Hydrates
Quote:

Equilibrium Data of Nitrous Oxide and Carbon Dioxide Clathrate Hydrates

OK I think you will agree that this article has fantastic assertions:
https://phys.org/news/2017-11-huge-hydr … ndary.html
Quote:

Splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen is a major theme in the development of clean, abundant energy source. A new study led by an international research group revealed that when water meets the iron core of the Earth, the extremely high pressures and temperatures existing at the core-mantle boundary can naturally cause water to split into hydrogen and a super oxidized iron dioxide. Both the released hydrogen and the retained oxygen in the dioxide have many far-reaching implications and consequences, including the behaviors of the core-mantle boundary as a huge hydrogen generator, the separation of the deep Earth's water and hydrogen cycles, and the accumulation of oxygen-rich patches.

Also....This is a new theory of how the Earth developed an Oxygen atmosphrere:

Furthermore, the authors point out that continuous accumulation of super-oxidized iron dioxide at the core-mantle boundary throughout the Earth's history may create sizable domains detectable by seismic probes. Such domains may stay at the core-mantle boundary indefinitely without disturbance. However, they are out of place in terms of their highly oxidized chemistry in the reduced environment near the iron core. In the event of overheating by the core, a massive amount of oxygen could be released and erupt to the surface, causing a colossal episode such as the Great Oxidation Event 2.4 billion years ago, which pumped oxygen into the atmosphere and enabled aerobic life to develop.

I believe that Mars is thought to have had an Oxygen atmosphere at some point in it's history.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/20 … tmosphere/

Oxygen Atmosphere Generation Theories:

1) The first thought of how there could have been an Oxygen atmosphere, I would have would be that water vapor was split into Hydrogen and Oxygen by U.V. light, when the planet had a warmer moist atmosphere.  The expectation is that Oxygen would be preferentially retained, Hydrogen preferentially lost to space.

2) Then again we could try the traditional explanation for Earth, that Photo life generated the Oxygen atmosphere.

3) Now we have this Oxygen from the core theory.

Isn't it interesting that we continually, come up with notions of reality, which we then accept as doctrine?  What if all three are possible ways?

Last edited by Void (2018-01-19 18:45:47)

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