Cities in the Arctic

RobertDyck · 2017-11-03 01:45:42

Terraformer wrote:

This is Canada's northern border, and has been since 1927. Notice the entire North West Passage is within Canada, it isn't international waters.
Not international, but probably not internal waters either. Was the Irish Sea considered the internal waters of the UK before Irish independence? What about the waters between Greek islands?

Doesn't matter. The northwest passage has been a Canadian internal waterway since 1895. Canada wanted the arctic since Confederation, that means the date Canada became a country: 1 July 1867. It negotiated with the UK; all remaining portions of North America except Newfoundland but including the Franklin territory was ceded to Canada in 1880. But the transfer did not describe the territory or its boundaries. In 1895 it was described, including 20 nautical miles off the coast of all islands and the mainland. That included the northwest passage. When the Soviet Union claimed a wedge of the arctic in the 1920s, from the eastern-most and western-most boundaries of their country, Canada did the same. That was acknowledged and recognized by the UN and the US government at the time. Canada's claim to the wedge came into effect in 1927.

A few countries today want to claim the northwest passage is international waters. Again, they're more than a century too late.

Government of Canada: Territorial Evolution

Last edited by RobertDyck (2017-11-03 13:51:49)

RobertDyck · 2017-11-03 02:01:45

One concern is people who live in these areas could be offended.
Colonialism still present in the North, N.W.T. premier tells Arctic Circle Assembly

Despite improved relations between the federal government and Canada's Indigenous people, northerners still get excluded from political decisions that impact their lands and livelihoods, says Bob McLeod, premier of Canada's Northwest Territories.
"Colonialism is not entirely absent," McLeod told a standing-room only crowd of international diplomats, business leaders, media and academics at the Arctic Circle Assembly, an annual event held in Iceland to foster international dialogue about the North.
"We saw [this] last December when Canada declared a unilateral moratorium on oil and gas development in the Arctic without prior consultation with either the public government of the Northwest Territories or the Indigenous people of the region," he said

So one concern is to ensure anything does not offend the people who already live there. Another concern is why this moratorium? This sounds like a wonderful way to create jobs.

Antius · 2017-11-03 07:54:29

RobertDyck wrote:

One concern is people who live in these areas could be offended.
Colonialism still present in the North, N.W.T. premier tells Arctic Circle Assembly
Despite improved relations between the federal government and Canada's Indigenous people, northerners still get excluded from political decisions that impact their lands and livelihoods, says Bob McLeod, premier of Canada's Northwest Territories.
"Colonialism is not entirely absent," McLeod told a standing-room only crowd of international diplomats, business leaders, media and academics at the Arctic Circle Assembly, an annual event held in Iceland to foster international dialogue about the North.
"We saw [this] last December when Canada declared a unilateral moratorium on oil and gas development in the Arctic without prior consultation with either the public government of the Northwest Territories or the Indigenous people of the region," he said
So one concern is to ensure anything does not offend the people who already live there. Another concern is why this moratorium? This sounds like a wonderful way to create jobs.

In the modern world it would appear to be impossible not to offend someone. The Inuit haven't been there for much longer than the English or French (they arrived about 1500) and appear to have wiped out the previous inhabitants.

But I wonder what the motivation would be behind actually colonising the far north of Canada. The Inuit moved there because they were able to draw a living from the land. Even so, their numbers were in the thousands before European colonisation. Agriculture in the conventional sense would be impractical. Temperatures are too low to do much work outside without gloves, parkas and other heavy clothing. So what does the place provide except a surface area to live on?

Terraformer · 2017-11-03 09:16:07

In the modern world it would appear to be impossible not to offend someone. The Inuit haven't been there for much longer than the English or French (they arrived about 1500) and appear to have wiped out the previous inhabitants.

That is completely wrong. Everyone knows that native peoples just sprung out of holes in the ground. The Europeans *invented* the idea of colonising other places, in the late 15th century.

Micronationalists might settle somewhere like Hans Island, if they get left alone as Sealand has been.

louis · 2017-11-03 09:40:50

Looks like a typo - 1980 = 1880.

RobertDyck wrote:

Terraformer wrote:
This is Canada's northern border, and has been since 1927. Notice the entire North West Passage is within Canada, it isn't international waters.
Not international, but probably not internal waters either. Was the Irish Sea considered the internal waters of the UK before Irish independence? What about the waters between Greek islands?
Doesn't matter. The northwest passage has been a Canadian internal waterway since 1895. Canada wanted the arctic since Confederation, that means the date Canada became a country: 1 July 1867. It negotiated with the UK; all remaining portions of North America except Newfoundland but including the Franklin territory was ceded to Canada in 1980. But the transfer did not describe the territory or its boundaries. In 1895 it was described, including 20 nautical miles off the coast of all islands and the mainland. That included the northwest passage. When the Soviet Union claimed a wedge of the arctic in the 1920s, from the eastern-most and western-most boundaries of their country, Canada did the same. That was acknowledged and recognized by the UN and the US government at the time. Canada's claim to the wedge came into effect in 1927.
A few countries today want to claim the northwest passage is international waters. Again, they're more than a century too late.
Government of Canada: Territorial Evolution

sunpraiser09 · 2017-11-28 06:53:39

Climate change really sucks. The devastation that it has brought to the world is just too much. Our payment for not taking care of mother earth.

RobertDyck · 2017-11-28 13:57:38

sunpraiser09 wrote:

Climate change really sucks. The devastation that it has brought to the world is just too much. Our payment for not taking care of mother earth.

Wrong. First, I used to believe in this "climate change" stuff. And climate change is real, but we are in a 100,000 year cycle of ice ages and interglacial periods. We're just in an interglacial period now. But here in Canada, a bunch of activists started demanding that all fossil fuels stay in the ground; they want to shut down all coal mines, all oil wells, all tar sands, even all natural gas. They want to shut down all pipelines, both oil and natural gas. That's just not going to happen! A bunch of retards, we live in Canada, we have winter here. Without a source of heat, you die. Literally; when cold is between -30°C and -40°C (real temperature, not wind chill) then staying outdoors will kill you. Yes, you can stay outdoors for hours in that temperature, it gets that cold on the coldest nights of winter every winter here. But if you fall asleep in that, you won't wake up. If you're tired and try to rest without a source of heat, you will go into hypothermia. That may tempt you to sleep, and if you do, you die.

When you look at actual data, not hype but data, humans have caused global cooling from the beginning of the industrial revolution of 1855 until 1970. Then due to pollution controls, we turned it around. It took 3 decades for the planet to recover. As of 1994 the planet was the same temperature as before 1855, but that doesn't take into account natural global warming. As of year 2000 the planet's temperature was what it would have been if humans hadn't messed with it. That is, assuming the slow rise in temperature from 1550 to 1855 was nature, and assuming global warming would have continued at the same pace if humans hadn't messed with it. From year 2000 on the rate of global warming made a dramatic and sharp change, it slowed almost to the pace of nature. Again assuming the pace from 1550 to 1855 is the pace of nature. Global warming from year 2000 until late 2014 was slight faster than the pace of nature, but not much. It was so close that we could say "Good enough".

Scientists heave measured temperature of the lower stratosphere since 1990. It cooled at a steady pace. The volcano called Mount Pinatubo erupted, and the other volcano in Iceland. These volcanoes caused the lower stratosphere to warm, then dramatically cool. It didn't just cool to what it was, and not to what it would have been before the volcano; it cooled much more than that. Once effect of the volcano ended, the lower stratosphere continued to cool at the pace it had. This was nature flushing out the soot from coal burning. Temperature of the lower stratosphere stabilized in 2010. And measurements of particulates show the soot remaining after 2010 is exhaust from jet engines. So it took until 2010 for the last of the smoke and soot from coal burning to settle out. 1970 to 2010 = 4 decades, that's how long it took to recover.

For the last 3 decades global warming appears to be back, but it really takes at least 4 years of data to separate long-term climate trends from the noise of weather or annual summer/winter cycles. It'll take another year to confirm that global warming is back, but right now it appears to be.

The greatest problem is some activists don't understand science they were taught in school. The cycle of ice ages is not something from a science text book. It's real, and we're living it. Currently we're in a period of natural global warming. We caused man-made global cooling for over a century, but we fixed that. This is what the natural climate looks like. But "sunpraiser09" bitch about it. They complain at the natural climate, and don't understand it's natural.

SpaceNut · 2017-11-28 18:56:07

I agree RobertDyck that "demanding that all fossil fuels stay in the ground; they want to shut down all coal mines, all oil wells, all tar sands, even all natural gas" is the wrong approach as we could be reprocessing the exhaust rather than letting it pollute our air. The sabatier reactor should be something in every home to aid in creation of fresh clean water for those with hard water, alkyline or acidic as we all need to have it.

The Earth does have a natural cycle but man has been able to alter the slopes of change in localized areas of the earth. Co2 is only part of the method to which earth is warming as the level of water that is evaporating in the local areas are also on the increase from the warming. There are many other influencers to the warming and the equation to tell what we are or what mother nature contributes is not straight forward or simple.

sunpraiser09 · 2017-11-29 07:07:36

Sorry for sounding like I am just bitching. Not all people are as knowledgeable as you when it comes to this subject. I guess I grew up in a generation that portrays climate change as a result of harmful human activities.

GW Johnson · 2017-11-29 13:12:27

You will see a spectrum of belief on these forums about anthropogenic climate change. That being said, the actual science of it really is fairly settled, with a result that is extremely unpopular with about half the folks that hear it. We are indeed having a major effect, regardless of what all else might be (and probably is) going on.

On the other hand, you cannot simply knee-jerk over-react to this by suddenly ending all fossil fuel use, because if you do, people will die in mass numbers for lack of energy. The renewables can only potentially replace fossil, they cannot actually replace it, because of the intermittency problem and the technological lack of effective energy storage at grid-scale power levels.

The distribution grid loses around half the electricity we generate, because of resistance losses. That is why one cannot generate wind or solar where it is available, and just transmit it to where it is needed. You'll lose much of it, even if the transmission lines were there, which they often aren't. Such transmission line projects typically have price tags in the $billions. We in Texas just built one in the last few years to connect our wind farms to the rest of the state's grid. That was $15 billion worth of towers and lines. It's working, but the resistance losses of several hundred miles of lines are significant.

What is really required is a mix of all the sources, favoring natural gas over coal as much as possible to reduce CO2 and other pollution as much as we can, with renewables no more than roughly 20%, until the storage problem gets solved. Once there is practical storage, then renewables can be a much larger percentage. It would also help to get nuclear off dead center with a sane permitting policy, tougher safety, and some sort of fuel reprocessing (which could cut the waste problem by a factor of 10).

Some of the transmission loss problem could be solved with distributed generation, embodied as rooftop solar on most residences and commercial buildings. The biggest impediment to actually doing that is greed, it is technologically feasible and financially attractive now, at partial peak power demand. But, power generators think they have to make money on every single watt; they cannot see the savings, which are admittedly not in-your-face direct, from needing less excess capacity, and from not losing so much to resistance losses.

GW

kbd512 · 2017-11-29 14:23:03

GW,

That was one of the points I tried to make to Louis, but he wasn't interested in the practical side of his solar ideas. I specifically indicated that flattening the demand curve using rooftop solar was the correct way to do this, until such time as grid scale batteries are a real technology and the average panel efficiency improves a bit. Right now large battery systems are mostly toys for people who have lots of money and not much in the way of basic accounting skills. In any event, I intend to install a rooftop array next year. A 5kWe grid-tied array will mostly level our energy demand throughout the day in the summer, when usage is the highest. It's not the 100% solution he thinks will fall from the sky like a bolt of lightning, but it's a major step in the right direction. Nobody seems to want to account for just how much more expensive things will get after demand sharply increases by electrifying nearly everything, either.

GW Johnson · 2017-11-29 17:50:37

Hi Kbd512:

Well, I try to be realistic about things, as best I can. Renewables are important, but no panacea, not until the storage problem gets solved.

Did you get the flood damage under control at your house?

GW

SpaceNut · 2017-11-29 19:53:48

Kbd512 I am interested in the general costs of what you are planning to install as my solar unit would need to be twice the size of yours for a grid tie in. As during the summer we would be having a surplus from that sized array such that it would offset the cold winters when solar is less practical for output levels. To compensate for winter thats another ball game for size. The information of that inverter and coupling transformer for net metering is what I think is the most expense here in NH.
I as well do hope that all flood damage has been corrected and life is back to something more normal.

JoshNH4H · 2017-11-30 13:56:20

As far as variable renewables go, wind and solar are decent complements because their variabilities aren't correlated, and if anything are somewhat anti-correlated (bad weather tends to bring less sunlight and more wind).

In principle, variable renewable energy + storage could account for 100% of power demand, as long as the amount of storage you have is based on good numbers for the variability of supply and demand throughout the year.

The bigger issues are cost and scale. Solar and wind prices have been dropping steadily, and battery prices have too. Including the costs of storage, it's probably not there now but that doesn't mean it won't get there. It might be there now if you were to account for the costs imposed by the use of fossil fuels.

Speaking long-term, the thing I'm most concerned about as far as renewables are concerned is a lithium shortage, because it's a pretty rare element and it's very conceivable we can run out. This would drive up prices. In that case, we could either mine it in space (fine with me!) or wherever possible use batteries based on a different element. I have suggested Sodium in the past, because its chemistry is similar to lithium (power and energy density would be way worse but this doesn't necessarily matter for stationary power) but its frequency is much higher.

Of course, if I were dictator I would start a crash program to improve and deploy nuclear power. But we live in a democracy, which all things considered is a good thing. People dislike nuclear power for reasons that I can understand, even if I don't agree with them. Given that, renewables+storage seems like a decent compromise option.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-12-03 12:51:53

In Arctic, rain might replace snow decades sooner than previously thought
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/in … y-thought/
Russia's remote permafrost thaws, threatening homes and infrastructure
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/russias-remot … 37453.html

kbd512 · 2021-12-03 13:48:53

SpaceNut,

I think I responded to the cost question in another thread dedicated to the topic, but I believe the cost was around $60,000 and the total loan amount over 25 years will come to about $100,000. The flat rate we now pay for electricity is $367/month. We had electricity bills ranging between $600 and $1,500 per month, so this was a marked improvement for us. Please bear in mind that we live in a 6,500ft^2 house with 3 AC units, 2 gas furnaces, 1 electric furnace, and a 30,000 gallon swimming pool that requires constant pumping power to remain algae-free.

Our range is also gas, our oven / washer / dryer are electric. Most of our electricity usage is related to AC and the pool. We use very little electricity and gas in the winter time, because we prefer colder temperatures indoors (65F is perfect), but the house must remain above freezing or the water pipes burst, which happened last year during the winter snow storm (outdoors above our patio area, thankfully, but it ran down through the wall and into our living room and master bedroom before I could shut off the water supply). It was so cold and dry that there was no mold / mildew, but it cost a bit to repair.

Both of our vehicles use gasoline, 1 is a 4,000 pound full size car (commuting), the other a 6,000 pound SUV (commuting and car camping at national parks). I drive considerably further to get to / from work than my wife, but I go into the office twice per week and she goes in 9 days per two work weeks. Every other Friday is a day off for her. An electric vehicle would be technically feasible, but not very practical, certainly not practical for going half way across the country, or even to Austin to visit my parents. I now drive 138 miles in a day during the two days I go into work, because our son uses our other car to go to nursing school and the hospital, which means I drive between Sugarland and The Woodlands. It's 16 miles to my wife's work, 16 miles back home to drop the kids off at school just down the block, 37 miles to my work, 53 miles to my wife's work to pick her up coming from Sugarland, then 16 miles back to home. A much more efficient and lighter gas powered car would be much better. Our son drives at least 50 miles per day during the days he has to go to class in person or to the hospital to work in the COVID ward. If I had an electric car, then those two days of driving would consume 80kWh to 100kWh to recharge the car. Electric might be more practical for our son, though.

SpaceNut · 2021-12-03 18:19:28

OK

I was thinking about the ice and snow melt that has exposed some new rocks that could be utilized to build a remote station on to perform real science.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-03 05:10:41

Cities that thrive at high Altitude La Rinconada city in Peru, Wenquan city in China, La Paz city Bolivia, Quito city in Ecuador
City with little water Santa Fe New Mexico, Lima Peru, the Egyian Capital of Cairo, Las Vegas Nevada, Arab cities the islamic petro-state and their cities
the Cities of the Arctic North Pole regions Kirovsk, Russia also Bodø, Norway also Monchegorsk and Norilsk in Russia.

Nations that invest in Mars might want to keep whatever they built for themselves

Would it be a bad thing for Mars to have its Borders? What happens to the local born on Mars would they be unable to work and trek across other territorial claims?

For example let's put Antarctica South Pole claims on Mars

this image is not to scale

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-03 16:48:32

I also wonder with long winters if the Nomadic lifestyle might be more suited to Mars, people would travel perhaps by truck or subway train from one Biodome to another to avoid the worst of the Mars winters.

old Newmars ideas and Government discussion
Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2791 ,
Plans for mobile base - on the mars... https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8928 , Nations or World Government on Mars - Nations or World Government? https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2807

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-25 15:18:53

Perhaps if humans move from one Dome colony or Biosphere to another a robot minder could be left behind to give some interaction with the animals of Mars.

Will the animals brought to Mars have an impact on the mind of humans just like the have on Earth, or will they be used as beast of burden, will animals be wild companion pets or simply for farm meat inside Mars biodomes?

Woman injured by polar bear on Norway’s Svalbard Islands
https://www.newscenter1.tv/woman-injure … d-islands/

Norway is obsessed with Freya, the walrus who rose to fame while sinking boats
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/frey … -rcna40174

Canadian Arctic city declares state of emergency over water shortage
https://wtaq.com/2022/08/12/canadian-ar … -shortage/

NATO chief’s first visit to Canadian Arctic to focus on Russia, climate change
https://www.missioncityrecord.com/news/ … te-change/

and more Politics?

The Second Cold War – as cold as outer space
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/t … e/47811532

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-25 15:20:05)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-29 05:08:20

NATO must expand presence in Arctic, says Stoltenberg
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-must-expand- … a-62954543

Arctic microbial ecology
https://www.helsinki.fi/en/researchgrou … al-ecology

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-02-23 06:41:43

Finnish cyclists say biking makes sense year-round — even in Northern cities
https://www.rcinet.ca/eye-on-the-arctic … rn-cities/

'Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!'
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3504

allegation of crimes and discussion of governments

Other news about remote Gulags, Leaked footage 'shows motorcade taking Alexei Navalny's body out of Arctic prison in dead of night'

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-04-20 05:44:23

a recent frontier Hokkaido a Humid continental, no dry season but depending on where cloud and wind arrives sometimes a little of Subarctic climate

Japan court rejects Ainu claim for indigenous right to catch salmon
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240418_26/
rejected a claim by a group of Ainu people that they have the indigenous right to catch salmon

the Ainu are a very old people, there were small farms but mostly a coastal fishing and hunter-gatherer culture they seem to have significant populations also in Russia and their language is unique, they might genetically relate to people from Alaska or Siberia or Canada a cultural relation to circum-polar peoples and Sub Arctic of eastern Siberia and Alaska but but no linguistic relation, the Sakhalin Ainu and Kuril Ainu are now extinct maybe an Artificial Intelligence Humanoid could one day study it all, the AI saving Native languages from extinction, the presence of place names in Japan suggest an Ainu culture underneath much of old Japan, names that appear to be of Ainu origin in both locations, the name o word -betsu common to many northern Japanese place names is known to derive from the Ainu word 'pet' or "river" and the ancestors of the Ainu may have lived at mid Japan or lower latitudes. Japan has both Shinto and Buddhist heritage and Similar to Japanese Shinto the Ainu followed a religion that was based on natural phenomena in hostical records they were maybe an older people maybe who were called referred to as Emishi came under Japanese subjugation starting in the 9th century and were pushed to the northern islands.

The genre of 'reality tv' a British television competition programme

Race Across the World fans go wild for 'savage' rule as mode of transport banned
https://uk.style.yahoo.com/race-across- … 04320.html
The teams began in Sapporo, in Hokkaido one of the main islands of Japan all the way to Lombok, an island of Indonesia.
However, viewers were floored by a new twist in the show that restricted the contestants to travel. The teams were not allowed to travel by Japan’s famous bullet trains.

a 15-16 min video on transport infrastructure

Stunning Northern Japan on this STRANGE TRAIN: JR Hokuto Limited Express
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVb6KaZhCYE

Japan to upgrade 16 ports, airports for defense, from Okinawa to Hokkaido
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Defens … o-Hokkaido

Floating reactors ready to set sail but regulations need to catch up
https://www.newsdrum.in/international/f … up-4477825

‘I live in Norway and tourists often make the same annoying mistake when they visit’
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articl … ng-mistake

Norway might not have Spain’s sunny weather but the Scandinavian country is still a leading holiday destination.

Planet Fitness hit with 28 bomb threats at locations across the U.S amid fall out over banning Alaska gym member
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … hroom.html

oil is discovered in Prudhoe Bay—a remote region along Alaska's northernmost coast—profoundly transforming the state
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-his … rudhoe-bay

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#26 2017-11-03 01:45:42

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#27 2017-11-03 02:01:45

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#28 2017-11-03 07:54:29

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#29 2017-11-03 09:16:07

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#30 2017-11-03 09:40:50

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#31 2017-11-28 06:53:39

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#32 2017-11-28 13:57:38

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#33 2017-11-28 18:56:07

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#34 2017-11-29 07:07:36

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#35 2017-11-29 13:12:27

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#36 2017-11-29 14:23:03

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#37 2017-11-29 17:50:37

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#38 2017-11-29 19:53:48

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#39 2017-11-30 13:56:20

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#40 2021-12-03 12:51:53

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#41 2021-12-03 13:48:53

Re: Cities in the Arctic

#42 2021-12-03 18:19:28

Re: Cities in the Arctic

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Re: Cities in the Arctic

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