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Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,451

Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

In today's article on SpaceNews.com,http://spacenews.com/smith-disappointed-with-lack-of-progress-on-sls-and-orion/ House Science Committee chairman Lamar Hunt (R) of Texas, issued a veiled threat and warning that the announced slippage of the first launch date for the SLS to late December 2019 is frustrating and is ultimately unacceptable to Congress and the American taxpayer. Considering how much money has been spent to date, with little in the way of results, Congress may decide to "seek other alternatives."

Here's the link:  http://spacenews.com/smith-disappointed … and-orion/

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

caption from story since I did not know who or what panels the Smith was from...

Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), chairman of the House Science Committee, warned of "ebbing" confidence in NASA and its contractors given the latest delays in the first flight of the Space Launch System.

His view on "delays for the SLS and the Orion crew vehicle could build support for unspecified alternatives, jeopardizing the overall program."

Exploration Mission (EM) 1 launch from 2017 to no earlier than December 2019. NASA announced the 2019 date a day before the hearing, while acknowledging that technical reviews concluded that June 2020 was a more likely launch date.

This mission is unmanned and with a second stage that will only fly once and then be redesigned before a manned flight in the time frame 5 years later if that does not slip too.

We have echo'd here that SLS is to costly and while its not cutting edge other than the electronics its using really old rehashed technology.

louis

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Registered: 2008-03-24

Posts: 7,208

Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

I imagine those good people in Texas feeding off the NASA trough are worried Space X are going to make NASA irrelevant. Are we going to end up with a situation where Space X have a couple of hundred people on the ground on Mars while NASA is pressing ahead with its Robot Rovers to Mars programme?  Just to ask the question is to answer it. Even the US taxpayer is going to wake up at that point.

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RobertDyck

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

I imagine those good people in Texas feeding off the NASA trough are worried Space X are going to make NASA irrelevant.

You don't understand how it works. SpaceX is now a NASA contractor; as long as they're taking NASA's money, NASA will take the credit. SpaceX isn't making NASA irrelevant, they're making the other contractors irrelevant: Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Northrup-Grumman, ATK. And most importantly, ULA.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2017-11-10 19:33:56)

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

Nasa facility map

Space X musk operations

Maybe if Nasa was not so spread out so far in so many location they could do a better job at rockets.

Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,451

Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

The answer is principally political. It's these larger population states with heavy congressional legislative clout which keep this abortive idea funded.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

Latest from AIAA "Daily Launch" is that SLS/Orion won't fly the next mission until 2020.  Congress maybe is losing confidence in NASA,  but I lost confidence in Congress long ago.  There have been no statesmen for a long time,  only political hacks and less-than-legal opportunists.  And not-a-few child molesters.  That joke about "bending pages" was never funny.

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

louis

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From: UK

Registered: 2008-03-24

Posts: 7,208

Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

They are making the NASA Mars programmes irrelevant was my point. As far as I know, Space X have no involvement in any NASA Mars programmes.

I imagine those good people in Texas feeding off the NASA trough are worried Space X are going to make NASA irrelevant.

You don't understand how it works. SpaceX is now a NASA contractor; as long as they're taking NASA's money, NASA will take the credit. SpaceX isn't making NASA irrelevant, they're making the other contractors irrelevant: Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Northrup-Grumman, ATK. And most importantly, ULA.

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Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,451

Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

They are making the NASA Mars programmes irrelevant was my point. As far as I know, Space X have no involvement in any NASA Mars programmes.

I imagine those good people in Texas feeding off the NASA trough are worried Space X are going to make NASA irrelevant.

You don't understand how it works. SpaceX is now a NASA contractor; as long as they're taking NASA's money, NASA will take the credit. SpaceX isn't making NASA irrelevant, they're making the other contractors irrelevant: Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Northrup-Grumman, ATK. And most importantly, ULA.

NASA has become more of a roadblock to progress, even though they alone have the deep pockets needed for the funding. They are more concerned with their "favorite contractors" than with real progress.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

Once the old guard figures out the cost pricing for rockets the low cost bidder will start to lose out. Right now all applications of Space x are making use of the risk to price break that they all are recieving.
Nasa may learn that making rockets from gold needs to end and so should paying cost plus contract numbers. It also must stop trying to do cutting edge on steady state uses.

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

They're disappointed in their own lack of progress?

Say it ain't so.

If NASA ever manages to send anyone anywhere outside of LEO, it'll be a miracle of biblical proportions.  And that's coming from an atheist.

Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,451

Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

As long as Congress simply throws money at NASA, they will be content to spend it doing "further studies." Until we get a goal-oriented program in place there will be nothing more than administrative wheel spinning. At present, the ISS seems to justify funding, and NASA is reluctant to begin phasing it out. ISS = Cash Cow.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

Sure seems that way as SLS managers rally the troops to avoid EM-1 slip into 2020

Go Team, rah rah rah... fire some a** and quit trying to employ an army of bodies.... Nasa you need to go on a diet....

We all work to scheduels and if we need to get a job done in 2 years you strive to get it done in 20 months.....

To do that all fun and games are done and you get people to do there jobs....

Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,451

Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

There is undoubtedly a lot of competence buried deep within NASA, but there is an army of daily bread earners as well. The way to get NASA shrunk down, based on the Civil Service system, is every retirement does not open a new job vacancy, and the job is either filled from within by shifting personnel, or in non-critical positions, eliminated. But the real problem is the ULA which should have never been approved, creating a semi-monopolistic and cost plus contract supplier! And they are building in the SLS, a rocket to nowhere!

Rusakov

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

I imagine those good people in Texas feeding off the NASA trough are worried Space X are going to make NASA irrelevant. Are we going to end up with a situation where Space X have a couple of hundred people on the ground on Mars while NASA is pressing ahead with its Robot Rovers to Mars programme?  Just to ask the question is to answer it. Even the US taxpayer is going to wake up at that point.

Uh... NASA is SpaceX's biggest customer last I heard. Hell, SpaceX probably wouldn't be where it is today if NASA wasn't a customer.

Also, NASA -being a Federal agency- has its contractors chosen by congress. It's not their fault that a bunch of Texans over on Capital Hill mandate their main contractor be the same one responsible for the white elephant that is the F-35.

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Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

Earlier today I watched a presentation about the SLS, and to date, it's cost the taxpayers ~ $11 Billion. By the time we include the upgrades to build the DSG and get manned missions to the moon, we're looking at another $6 Billion or more. Each one of these rockets will cost about $1 Billion, with no re-use planned. Maybe something of a taxpayer revolt to get the attention of congress? I doubt that will ever happen, and the workfare continues.

SpaceNut

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

Trouble for Space X is that after Nasa plus the military there are very few customers and for outside the US then we have ITAR issues.

SpaceNut

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Re: Congress losing confidence in NASA and ULA?

Boeing won a $4.2 billion contract to develop the CST-100 Starliner capsule while SpaceX won a separate $2.6 billion to build its Dragon crew craft.

SpaceX, Boeing face questions on flight safety

NASA has relied on the Russian Soyuz spacecraft to carry astronauts to and from the space station at more than $80 million a seat under the most recent contract.

Boeing and SpaceX hope to launch commercial crew ferry ships on long-awaited test flights later this year, but both companies face major challenges getting the spacecraft certified before late 2019 when seats aboard Russian Soyuz spacecraft will no longer be easily available for NASA space station crews, officials told lawmakers Wednesday.

And whenever they do eventually fly, the companies may not be able to meet NASA's stringent flight safety requirements. The agency wants the new spacecraft to have only one chance in 500 of losing a crew during ascent and entry, and an overall 1-in-200 chance of fatalities due to a spacecraft issue during a 210-day mission to the station.

NASA is working closely with Boeing and SpaceX to mitigate risks and representatives of both companies insisted they will be ready for initial test flights this summer with the first crewed test missions before the end of the year.