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#1 2017-11-01 13:19:28

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 313

Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
by Eric Berger - 11/1/2017

The articles began appearing in late August, mostly in conservative publications such as Town Hall, Breitbart, and the Daily Caller and have since continued to trickle out through October. All of the dozen or so Web commentaries, variously styled as op-eds or contributions, have made the same essential point—that Elon Musk is benefiting from crony capitalism and must be stopped.

This is not a particularly new line of attack against Musk, especially among some conservatives who decry the public money his companies have received to build solar power facilities, electric cars, and low-cost rockets. Yet most of these articles have been quite specific in their attacks, pinpointing a single section in the 2018 National Defense Authorization Act as particularly troublesome to the Republic.

The articles, several of which are written by former US Rep. Ron Paul or his associates, have the same general theme: Musk has given lavishly to politicians, especially Arizona Senator John McCain (R). In return, McCain added Section 1615 to this year's defense authorization bill, which includes language to restrict the military from investing in new launch systems. With this language, the articles assert, Musk seeks a monopoly on the US national security launch market. In addition to saying this allows Musk to fleece taxpayers, some of the more overdone authors assert that it could kill Americans.

As the Senate deliberates the FY 2018 [National Defense Authorization Act], it should listen to the real experts on space-related matters, not pseudo experts with vested financial interests, like Musk donor recipient John McCain," wrote Jerry Rogers, in The Federalist, in a typical op-ed. "Musk’s business model of using the government to corner the market in the electric car industry isn’t optimal, but at least it doesn’t threaten American lives."

Read the full article at:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11 … -campaign/

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#2 2017-11-02 11:22:27

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,103
Website

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

You have to trace "information" from those alt-right sources to its ultimate sources to understand what it really is.  9/10 of that crap derives from RT,  Sputnik,  VT,  or the whole host of Russian internet trolls.  It is inflammatory disinformation,  intended to paralyze us by dividing us.  And it has been working for some years now. 

Musk can contribute to any damned politician he likes.  In our money-corrupted system,  the expectation is that such donation recipients reciprocate by doing whatever favors they can do.  There is absolutely nothing new about that.  It is an uncorrected problem left over from the very founding of the Republic. 

When you add to that the political stagnation of hyperpartisanship inflamed by Russian disinformation,  then you see real damage done to this country.  That is what has been happening.  Short term,  we have to stop this Russian disinformation attack.  Long-term,  if we eliminate the corruption of big money in our government,  then such disinformation attacks can no longer hurt us. 

Spacex had to use Musk's money to break the ULA monopoly on military satellite launches.  It took several years and some court battles to accomplish this.  He is not yet even approaching anything close to the claimed "forming a monopoly" status.  Nor is there any threat of Tesla becoming a monopoly product in the car market. 

That's just Russian bullshit intended to divide us.  Plain and simple.  But over-partisan politicians latch onto such falsehoods as sound bites for political advantage. 

Maybe we should make that behavior treason.  Or at least run such political hacks out of office on a rail,  tarred and feathered. 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#3 2017-11-03 08:39:43

Antius
Member
From: Cumbria, UK
Registered: 2007-05-22
Posts: 1,003

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

GW and the like evidently think there are Russians hiding behind every corner.  But this sounds more like fingers in pies to me.  Not really an Alt-right thing as such, more like big money behind crooked politicians.

Whenever somebody innovates in this world and produces something new, there are winners and losers.  The losers in this case are the defence companies that made legacy launch vehicles and operated them at enormous profit, both Russian and US.  Musk destroyed their business model. Did you really expect them to let those multi-billion dollar investments go without a fight?

It would be a mistake to write off the New Right as some kind of product of Russian antagonism.  In some respects, Russia is an ideological ally in the same way that the Soviet Union was an ideological ally of the political left during the cold war.  It isn't so much that Putin provides direct support to these people, more that he provides an example of a successful nationalist state.  People on the right are apt to forget that Russia is a criminal fraternity, where the rule of law depends on where you are in the pecking order.  But it exists outside of the Western Zionist cabal and rejects most of its values, so there are plenty of disillusioned white nationalists that respect Putin for that.  They see what they want to see and like most people they make simplistic judgements and do not see the big picture.

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#4 2017-11-03 09:17:19

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,312
Website

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

Western Zionist cabal?

Israel seems to be a fairly successful ethno-nationalist state...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#5 2017-11-03 10:24:28

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,103
Website

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

I haven't seen the terminology "Zionist cabal" in a long time,  because I don't visit far-right and alt-right echo chambers,  except when tracing the source of egregious crap.  That's where I last saw that terminology,  and it traced to a Russian propaganda source. 

No,  I don't see Russians behind every bush and tree,  but I have seen a lot more of them ever since Putin's last disputed election. 

Back at that time,  Clinton called public attention to how illegitimate he was,  which is why he favored Trump over Clinton in 2016,  and had his propagandists flood us with disinformation attempting to influence the 2016 election. 

Motivation?  Revenge,  pure and simple.  And the disinformation-as-disruption is a pattern already seen in Europe.  It ain't like nobody ever saw this before,  because we have. 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#6 2017-11-03 10:56:16

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,312
Website

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

GW, will you please cut it with the conspiracy theory stuff. Maybe if you didn't see anything outside your echo chamber as being "far right", you'd have a better understanding of things.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#7 2017-11-03 11:58:56

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,912

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

I know an awful lot of people on the far left, alt-left who absolutely HATE Musk and SpaceX, saying that he's accomplished everything using only government money, which we know is egregious bullshit. He funded SpaceX with virtually ALL of his available capital, approximately $100 Million at the time. He deserves a lot of respect for his risk-taking, and should be allowed to profit from his investment.

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#8 2017-11-03 16:37:29

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,103
Website

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

Well,  some seem to think I am in my own echo chamber.  I really try hard not to live in one.  I look at variety of traceable sources. 

I don't know much about any far left or alt-left,  beyond the communist party USA types I saw in the 1960's and 1970's,  and which were the targets of the House Unamerican Activities Committee in the 1950's.  Which excesses gave right wingers a deservedly bad name.  Don't get me wrong:  that version of statist dictatorship ideology (something I intensely hate!) has been discredited since the fall of the Berlin Wall,  if not really much earlier. 

As for the far right and alt-right,  I now see people marching under Nazi flags in the streets,  doing Nazi salutes.  To me that is utterly incredible,  given the effort and sacrifice of one generation earlier than me to wipe that shit from the face of the Earth.  It is nothing but another version of statist dictatorship ideology.  And I already think I said I hate such shit!

As for propaganda coming from Russia,  that kind of crap I have seen at one level or another all my life.  It's quite real.  Disbelieve at your own peril.  That's not to say a whole lot of other entities don't also lie egregiously,  because they do.  Which is why I consult multiple sources for my news,  sources with credible reputations,  by the way. 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#9 2017-11-03 17:20:54

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,312
Website

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

Credible sources? Where do you find those, these days?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#10 2017-11-03 20:17:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

What traceable, photographic not good enough to prove the point that this is what is happening.... as GW has posted.

Alt-right Twitter blogger Jenna Abrams unmasked as creation of Russian 'troll factory'

“Our goal wasn't to turn Americans toward Russia. Our goal was to set Americans against their own government,” he said.

“To provoke unrest, provoke dissatisfaction, lower (Barack) Obama's rating.”

Meanwhile, the US Justice Department says it has gathered enough evidence to charge six members of the Russian government in the hacking of Democratic National Committee computers before last year's presidential election.

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#11 2017-11-04 14:49:42

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,103
Website

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

To answer Terraformer's question,  I look at NBC to see unabashedly leftist/Democrat stuff,  at CBS and PBS to see more-or-less middle-of-the-road stuff,  and I cannot help being exposed to Fox (because around here that's what every TV is tuned to) with their right-wing slant (more on the opinion than the reporting,  but they do mix the two too much). 

As for the actual outlets of my sources,  those are on TV and on the internet and I look both places.  Plus,  I still read the newspaper.  Physically.  On paper.  Our small hometown papers around here still do a pretty good job.  Their ultimate sources are usually AP or UPI,  still pretty good. A lot of foreign services like BBC,  NHK,  DW,  and some others get into the mix,  especially via PBS.

Haven't paid much attention to ABC since Disney bought them,  but they at least used to be more-or-less middle-of-the-road.  More emphasis now on entertainment "news" instead of the real thing,  near as I can tell. 

PBS has fewer items but greater depth to their stories.  I can see the opinions of the reporters (something inherent but minimizable),  but they do a decent job of trying to report the whole truth of the story.  They're not far left,  nor are they far right in outlook.  Not distinguishing the difference between "fair" and "favorable" (in spite of the fact that both start with the same two letters) is why the GOP has been trying to defund them since Bush 43's administration.

There was a pretty good 15 minute interview on Friday's PBS "Newshour" with a North Korean diplomat who defected.  What he had to say was definitely more nuanced and complicated about how to deal successfully with Kim Jong Un,  without getting millions killed.  Trump's bluster after the threat to Guam actually worked,  which is where the 1st ICBM to overfly Japan came from.  The limited strike plan being bandied about the White House probably won't (it'll start the general war,  and pretty much automatically,  without orders from Kim).  That was the message.

Most (pretty near 100%) of the internet stuff that friends forward to me comes from any of a number of right wing things like Breitbart or Rense or hot-air windbags like Rush Limbaugh,  which are more blog/opinion sites than anything else.  Rather rabid ones,  at that.

I know the opposite exists (meaning the far left stuff),  but nobody has ever forwarded any of that crap to me.  All I ever got was far-right crap.  Apparently they who sent it believe what they forward.  So I think that's how we got the President we got,  and a fair fraction of both houses of Congress,  and the state government here in Texas.  They're all old enough (like me) to long pre-date the dumbing-down of public education,  so they don't have any excuse for such abysmal ignorance.

I usually don't waste the time,  but for some particularly egregious forwarded stuff I have traced it down further to things like Sputnik,  Veterans Today,  or RT (Russia Today).  Those have been known for some years as Russian propaganda / misinformation sources.

The newer massive social media misinformation campaign is coming from paid advertising on things like Twitter and Facebook.  This has been headline news in recent days,  about how much of this has been going on since about 2015. 

Sorry,  Terraformer.  You asked.  So I answered.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#12 2017-11-04 20:36:47

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

I try to get to most of these.....
ABCNEWS.com, BBC - Homepage, The Huffington Post, Bloomberg.com, NBC News, CBSNews.com, CNN.com, FOXNews.com, HoustonChronicle.com, TheHill, LA Daily News - Home, FLORIDA TODAY, Learn Progress, MSN.com, MSNBC Cover, Politics, Policy, Political News - POLITICO, Washington Times - Politics, Breaking News, US and World News, Proudemocrat, SFGate: San Francisco Bay Area, The New York Times on the Web, TODAYonline, USATODAY.com, Weekly World News, Yahoo! News - Front Page, Washington Post, - Bipartison News, BlueDot Daily, floridatoday.com, Blue District, Bluedot Daily, Breaking news, Breaking Breaking news and More: Eureka Times-Standard

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#13 2017-11-05 07:17:22

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,261

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

Good grief, Spacenut. Do you get time to do anything much, other than reading the News on all those sites?

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#14 2017-11-05 11:06:51

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,103
Website

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

Wow!  That is a bunch!  Elderflower,  I bet he almost went into withdrawal while the power was out for 3 days.  Shakes and DT's,  perhaps?

I don't have the time to read that much stuff,  and I'm retired,  Spacenut!  I dunno how you do it.   

Between running the farm,  building/selling cactus implements,  doing rocket and ramjet stuff for a couple of clients,  and keeping up with the wife's honey-do list,  I don't have any time. In particular,  that honey-do list will take longer to do than I have left to live.

At least I'm 90% done writing the ramjet book.  There's one appendix left to finish.  The rest has been submitted to AIAA for review.   

I'm gonna guess here that we have wandered too far afield.  The original topic was "right-wing outlets escalate anti-Spacex propaganda".  We probably ought to return to that.  Assuming that the question of credible sources is settled,  we may have pretty well covered it. 

My opinion:  as long as the Bannon/alt-right wing has some degree of control over the GOP,  and the GOP has control of the government,  these anti-Spacex propaganda attacks will continue.  And they will continue to be rather devoid of factual content. 

My other opinion:  with Bridenstine as administrator,  you will see 3 things out of NASA:  (1) partial destruction of NASA's role in climate change research,  (2) less cooperation with Spacex and other new space entities with a whole lot more funding of "old space",  and (3) giving up on men-to-Mars for our lifetimes in favor of a return to the moon. 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#15 2017-11-05 18:44:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,908

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

Inside Sputnik, the Russian-Funded Media Network

What’s it like to work at a Russian government-funded news outlet in Washington, D.C.? NBC Left Field spent a day at Sputnik News’s Washington DC bureau with Lee Stranahan: a former Senior Investigative Correspondent at Breitbart — who now works at Sputnik’s new radio station, 105.5 FM.

https://www.nbcnews.com/leftfield/video … 2528323767

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#16 2017-11-06 05:20:53

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,261

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign

When will ABC or BBC, or even CBC be allowed to open an FM radio station in Moscow or St Petersburg?

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#17 2017-11-06 16:18:35

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 313

Re: Right-wing outlets escalate anti-SpaceX propaganda campaign


The United States does not allow Russians to control more than 25% of American radio and TV stations and Russia does not allow more than 20% foreign ownership in their radio and TV stations.
 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vladimir Putin has signed into law a bill, which sets the maximum foreign stake in Russian mass media companies at 20 percent.
The law will come into force on January 1, 2016, and media companies must submit reports on their stockholders before February 15, 2016.

The new Russian law is in line with international practice as many countries in the world have already protected their informational space from excessive foreign influence. For example, Australia has set a 30 percent limit of foreign ownership in national mass media and Canada has a law limiting foreign ownership in electronic mass media by 46 percent. The United States allow foreigners to control not more than 25 percent of American TV and radio stations, while Japan has set this limit at 20 percent. France will not allow non-EU citizens and companies to possess more than 20 percent of its mass media. In the UK, the shares of foreign stockholders in mass media corporations cannot exceed those owned by British investors.

https://www.rt.com/politics/196084-russ … a-foreign/

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