New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#1 2017-10-21 17:49:29

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,599

Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

Mars colonisation is now within reach, not some dim distant prospect. Isn't it time to start discussing the sorts of laws that should obtain on our cousin planet?

This is your chance to put your dicator hat on and tell people how they ought to live on Mars! smile

OK, I'll go first:

1. RELIGIOUS PRACTICE

Communal religious practice may only take place in Common Places of Worship approved by the Mars Community. No other public manifestations of common religious belief will be allowed. Common Places of Worship must involve at least three separate sects, comprising one from each of  the following: Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism.  The premises must be shared amicably.  In the event of dispute, the Common Place of Worship will be closed down.

2. CRIMINAL JUSTICE

All criminal offences will be categorised under two headings: "Banishable Offences" and "Non-banishable offences".  With respect to Banishable Offences any person found guilty of the offence shall be banished to Planet Earth and shall not be allowed to return to Mars.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#2 2017-10-21 18:22:27

JoshNH4H
Mod and Martian
From: New York, NY, USA, Earth, Sol
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,134
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

I think the Universal Declaration of Human Rights would be an excellent basis for Martian Law.

As far as your suggestions:

louis wrote:

No other public manifestations of common religious belief will be allowed.

This seems like a reflection of the anti-islamic sentiment currently in vogue in the West rather than a defensible limitation on free expression.

Just for the record, I am a devout atheist and choose secularism for myself.  I do not think religion should be the basis for laws that affect everyone.  However, I don't think religious expression can or should be contained any more than political or artistic expression can or should be.  Let people believe what they want, wear what they want, say what they want, unless it negatively affects other people in a way that can't reasonably be ignored.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not accusing you or a large majority of Westerners of being hateful people, but I do think there's a substantial amount of discomfort with and animus for muslims on a population level that has contributed to events like the election of Donald Trump, Brexit, bans on hijabs and minarets, etc.  Ideally this would not be carried over to Mars on either a cultural or legal level.


-Josh

If you try to talk to me about cold fusion or propellantless drives I will ignore you.
Mod actions in red

Offline

#3 2017-10-21 20:34:49

IanM
Member
From: Chicago
Registered: 2015-12-14
Posts: 167

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

I don't particularly have anything for common, statutory law (which would probably vary by municipality in any case), but I've been tinkering with a constitution, probably one of several that will be proposed. I do agree that separation of church and state is a good thing, and I could see how all municipalities have to be at least nominally secular. I've tended to see Mars, at least at the federal level, as a common law jurisdiction, though that might just be me being Ameri-/Anglocentric.

As for my tinkered constitution, here it is, divided by the three branches of Government and other notes:
LEGISLATURE:
-The ultimate legislative body is the unicameral General Assembly.
-Each municipality gets 5 members to the General Assembly, to be elected as it sees fit. The part of Mars not part of any municipality gets 1 member, to be elected per Federal Law.
-Members are elected to terms of 1 year (~2 Earth years). There is no staggering, the entirety of the General Assembly is up for election every cycle.
-The General Assembly is headed by a Speaker, elected by its membership, who conducts meetings, keeps order, and is responsible for committee assignments.
-Unlike most Westminster-system jurisdictions, but like the United States, the President of Mars, despite having a role in the legislative process as detailed below, is not formally considered a part of the General Assembly.
-Members of the General Assembly must be citizens and no younger than 11 years old (slightly younger than 21 in Earth years).

EXECUTIVE:
-The ultimate executive decision-making body is the Executive Council, consisting of a President, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Treasurer, Surveyor General, Attorney General, Postmaster General, and Secretary of Defense and the Interior.
-Members are elected individually by direct popular vote with universal suffrage for a term of 2 Martian years (~4 Earth years).
-Members of the Executive Council must be citizens and no younger than 16 years old (slightly older than 30 in Earth years).
-One cannot be a member of both the Executive Council and the General Assembly simultaneously.
-President is head of state and head of government, but is only primus inter pares within the Executive Council.
-Most executive decisions are made by the Executive Council as a group, and it is the Executive Council as a group that signs treaties, to be ratified by the General Assembly.
-President has veto power over bills passed by the General Assembly, which can be overridden by a two-thirds majority of elected General Assembly members. Like most American State Governors but unlike the US President, this is a line-item veto, meaning that the President can at his will veto parts of bills, rather than having to sign or veto a bill as-is.
-Vacancies for non-Presidential positions are filled by a Presidential appointment with the advice and consent of the General Assembly for the remainder of the term.
-Vacancies in the Presidency are filled by the Speaker of the General Assembly for the remainder of the term; if there is an intervening General Assembly election there will be held in conjunction a by-election for the Presidency for the rest of the term. In keeping with separation of powers the Speaker recuses himself from the General Assembly while substituting for the President.
-The President has the right to call a special session of the General Assembly as he sees fit.
-The President is required to give a speech to the General Assembly the equivalent of every one Earth year detailing the State of Planet.

JUDICIARY:
-There is a Supreme Court of Mars, which is the highest court and most probably the only court outside of the municipalities.
-There will be an odd number of judges, no fewer than 3 nor more than 9.
-Members are appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the General Assembly for life.

FEDERALISM:
-Currency, bankruptcy, intermunicipal commerce, immigration and naturalization, foreign affairs, and administraion of the extramunicipal area (the so-called "outback") are the domains of the federal government.
-Everything else is devolved to the municipalities, which are, as in the United States and Australia but unlike Canada and India, considered sovereign entities in their own right.
-I still don't know how municipalities would be admitted to the Union.


The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever. -Paraphrased from Tsiolkovsky

Offline

#4 2017-10-21 20:56:38

JoshNH4H
Mod and Martian
From: New York, NY, USA, Earth, Sol
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,134
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

I would like to see some elements of direct democracy incorporated into a Martian government, ideally with the people themselves serving as some sort of coequal branch (although I'm not sure how that would actually work structurally)


-Josh

If you try to talk to me about cold fusion or propellantless drives I will ignore you.
Mod actions in red

Offline

#5 2017-10-21 21:24:32

IanM
Member
From: Chicago
Registered: 2015-12-14
Posts: 167

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

I think direct democracy would work best for municipal governments (much like the Town Meetings of New England), although with respect to the federal government I can see referendums being used for amending the constitution.


The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever. -Paraphrased from Tsiolkovsky

Offline

#6 2017-10-21 22:03:06

JoshNH4H
Mod and Martian
From: New York, NY, USA, Earth, Sol
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,134
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

Direct democracy should definitely be heavily incorporated into the governments of individual settlements, but I'd like to see it at a planetary level too.  California's experience with referenda has been very mixed, so I wrote model legislation for a different way of doing things that could apply for the whole country.  I call it the American Democracy Act

Basically, legislation can be composed by activists and interested parties (e.g. anyone who cares enough to participate) in a wiki-type format and then published to a vote page (think the front page of reddit, where you can upvote or downvote and the popularity of each is measured as upvotes minus downvotes).  A certain number of bills then go directly to the legislature, where Congress has to either vote yea or nay with a 50%+1 threshold in a specified period of time.  Should both houses (in this example it would only be the one house) pass it, it goes to the President to sign or veto.  If they sign it, it becomes law.

Something similar, tailored for the Martian system, might work.  Link goes to a google doc with the legislative text (9 pages) btw and I'm very interested in comments!


-Josh

If you try to talk to me about cold fusion or propellantless drives I will ignore you.
Mod actions in red

Offline

#7 2017-10-22 14:25:33

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,599

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

I think this law would apply to all religions without exception. The point would be to ensure that religions had to co-operate if they wished to have a public presence. 

Your argument in favour of religious freedom only works if it is the case that no religion wishes to impose a legal system on the general populace.

We all know that throughout history various religions have sought to enforce legal systems on populations.

I am proposing that we make this impossible on Mars. Your commitment to secularity  is simply another way of expressing opposition to religious law, but your secularity would be ineffective against say a determined attempt at colonisation by adherents of a particular religion.  Anyway you choose for "yourself" secularity. Secularity is a principle of governance that is either applied or not.  I am looking at practical ways of ensuring it is applied on Mars.


JoshNH4H wrote:

I think the Universal Declaration of Human Rights would be an excellent basis for Martian Law.

As far as your suggestions:

louis wrote:

No other public manifestations of common religious belief will be allowed.

This seems like a reflection of the anti-islamic sentiment currently in vogue in the West rather than a defensible limitation on free expression.

Just for the record, I am a devout atheist and choose secularism for myself.  I do not think religion should be the basis for laws that affect everyone.  However, I don't think religious expression can or should be contained any more than political or artistic expression can or should be.  Let people believe what they want, wear what they want, say what they want, unless it negatively affects other people in a way that can't reasonably be ignored.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not accusing you or a large majority of Westerners of being hateful people, but I do think there's a substantial amount of discomfort with and animus for muslims on a population level that has contributed to events like the election of Donald Trump, Brexit, bans on hijabs and minarets, etc.  Ideally this would not be carried over to Mars on either a cultural or legal level.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#8 2017-10-22 14:31:24

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,599

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

Your constitution seems well worked out.  I would say from a UK perspective it has quite a bias to the American model but I like the idea that municipalities - which I would identify with the Swiss Cantons - would have a strong independent role.

One thing I would say is we need a "road map" to get to this sort of end state for the constitution as it clearly wouldn't be appropriate for a community of say 1000, and maybe not even 10,000...but a 100,000 - definitely.


IanM wrote:

I don't particularly have anything for common, statutory law (which would probably vary by municipality in any case), but I've been tinkering with a constitution, probably one of several that will be proposed. I do agree that separation of church and state is a good thing, and I could see how all municipalities have to be at least nominally secular. I've tended to see Mars, at least at the federal level, as a common law jurisdiction, though that might just be me being Ameri-/Anglocentric.

As for my tinkered constitution, here it is, divided by the three branches of Government and other notes:
LEGISLATURE:
-The ultimate legislative body is the unicameral General Assembly.
-Each municipality gets 5 members to the General Assembly, to be elected as it sees fit. The part of Mars not part of any municipality gets 1 member, to be elected per Federal Law.
-Members are elected to terms of 1 year (~2 Earth years). There is no staggering, the entirety of the General Assembly is up for election every cycle.
-The General Assembly is headed by a Speaker, elected by its membership, who conducts meetings, keeps order, and is responsible for committee assignments.
-Unlike most Westminster-system jurisdictions, but like the United States, the President of Mars, despite having a role in the legislative process as detailed below, is not formally considered a part of the General Assembly.
-Members of the General Assembly must be citizens and no younger than 11 years old (slightly younger than 21 in Earth years).

EXECUTIVE:
-The ultimate executive decision-making body is the Executive Council, consisting of a President, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Treasurer, Surveyor General, Attorney General, Postmaster General, and Secretary of Defense and the Interior.
-Members are elected individually by direct popular vote with universal suffrage for a term of 2 Martian years (~4 Earth years).
-Members of the Executive Council must be citizens and no younger than 16 years old (slightly older than 30 in Earth years).
-One cannot be a member of both the Executive Council and the General Assembly simultaneously.
-President is head of state and head of government, but is only primus inter pares within the Executive Council.
-Most executive decisions are made by the Executive Council as a group, and it is the Executive Council as a group that signs treaties, to be ratified by the General Assembly.
-President has veto power over bills passed by the General Assembly, which can be overridden by a two-thirds majority of elected General Assembly members. Like most American State Governors but unlike the US President, this is a line-item veto, meaning that the President can at his will veto parts of bills, rather than having to sign or veto a bill as-is.
-Vacancies for non-Presidential positions are filled by a Presidential appointment with the advice and consent of the General Assembly for the remainder of the term.
-Vacancies in the Presidency are filled by the Speaker of the General Assembly for the remainder of the term; if there is an intervening General Assembly election there will be held in conjunction a by-election for the Presidency for the rest of the term. In keeping with separation of powers the Speaker recuses himself from the General Assembly while substituting for the President.
-The President has the right to call a special session of the General Assembly as he sees fit.
-The President is required to give a speech to the General Assembly the equivalent of every one Earth year detailing the State of Planet.

JUDICIARY:
-There is a Supreme Court of Mars, which is the highest court and most probably the only court outside of the municipalities.
-There will be an odd number of judges, no fewer than 3 nor more than 9.
-Members are appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the General Assembly for life.

FEDERALISM:
-Currency, bankruptcy, intermunicipal commerce, immigration and naturalization, foreign affairs, and administraion of the extramunicipal area (the so-called "outback") are the domains of the federal government.
-Everything else is devolved to the municipalities, which are, as in the United States and Australia but unlike Canada and India, considered sovereign entities in their own right.
-I still don't know how municipalities would be admitted to the Union.

Last edited by louis (2017-10-22 14:35:31)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#9 2017-10-22 14:37:34

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,599

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

Yes - I'd like to see more direct democracy on the Swiss model...as you indicate with current technology it should be much easier to develop referendum democracy.

JoshNH4H wrote:

Direct democracy should definitely be heavily incorporated into the governments of individual settlements, but I'd like to see it at a planetary level too.  California's experience with referenda has been very mixed, so I wrote model legislation for a different way of doing things that could apply for the whole country.  I call it the American Democracy Act

Basically, legislation can be composed by activists and interested parties (e.g. anyone who cares enough to participate) in a wiki-type format and then published to a vote page (think the front page of reddit, where you can upvote or downvote and the popularity of each is measured as upvotes minus downvotes).  A certain number of bills then go directly to the legislature, where Congress has to either vote yea or nay with a 50%+1 threshold in a specified period of time.  Should both houses (in this example it would only be the one house) pass it, it goes to the President to sign or veto.  If they sign it, it becomes law.

Something similar, tailored for the Martian system, might work.  Link goes to a google doc with the legislative text (9 pages) btw and I'm very interested in comments!


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#10 2017-10-22 15:25:39

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,479
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

*shrugs* As I've said before, do what you like in your own colony. I doubt many people will want to move to it, though. They'll probably go for ones that offer somewhat more freedom, if they move to Mars.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#11 2017-10-22 16:29:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,527

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

The act of crime and a justice system only works when there is an enforcing entity along with all the other branches we are just duplicating earths systems on mars with the only caveat being religious is forced to be unified for all in cooperation.

While we do not have muslims in the town to which I live in we do have Baptist, Pentacostals, Evangelists, Catholics, Congregational, Protestants and they all share in the community outreach of a food bank that is provided in the congregational church as its the largest of them to house the function within sending voluteers to man the operation each month.

One thing that mars must have is no 24/7 specialists as we need the basics taken care of first in food, water, oxygen, fuels, energy and expansion of shelters to which if we are working a 12 hr day shift we need to be investing in at least in each of these as a rotation to make people each not only competant in them but to stop the downward spiral caused by specializing....
If a member of a critical specialty gets sick, dies or injured the remaining colony members are not put at risk.
If you are not providing for the common good then there is no direct need for you to be there in the colony.

Offline

#12 2017-10-22 16:43:41

JoshNH4H
Mod and Martian
From: New York, NY, USA, Earth, Sol
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,134
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

louis wrote:

I think this law would apply to all religions without exception. The point would be to ensure that religions had to co-operate if they wished to have a public presence.

Your argument in favour of religious freedom only works if it is the case that no religion wishes to impose a legal system on the general populace.

We all know that throughout history various religions have sought to enforce legal systems on populations.
I am proposing that we make this impossible on Mars. Your commitment to secularity  is simply another way of expressing opposition to religious law, but your secularity would be ineffective against say a determined attempt at colonisation by adherents of a particular religion.  Anyway you choose for "yourself" secularity. Secularity is a principle of governance that is either applied or not.  I am looking at practical ways of ensuring it is applied on Mars.

Laws can apply to everyone but still be discriminatory.  Consider the example of same-sex marriage.  Many advocates (and the Supreme Court) believe that it is discriminatory against LGBTQ+ people for civil marriages to only be between couples of the opposite sex.  This law is not discriminatory in the sense that it applies differently to different types of people, but it is discriminatory in that it is oppressive and restrictive to people who are not heterosexual while having no substantial effect on people who are.

The same could be said of bans on public expression of religion in many countries: They may apply to all people equally but they mostly only affect Muslim women who choose to cover themselves.  Would Jews be permitted to wear a kippah in public? If yes, how can justify allowing this and banning that? If not, what about the peyes and beard that many orthodox families choose?  Will Jews be permitted to publicly fast on Yom Kippur, or will they be forced to eat?  Will Christians be permitted to publicly forgo certain comforts for Lent, or will they be prosecuted for doing so?  Will anyone be permitted to publicly mumble a prayer before they eat?

It's a mistake to try to regulate public or private practice of religion.  Down that road lies either discrimination or totalitarianism, neither of which is desirable.  Shared religious spaces can be created by custom and for efficiency, as during the brief Convivencia in Spain.  Because Muslims' holy day is Friday, Jews' Saturday, and Christians' Sunday, it can work out if they want it to. 

Secularism happens when people decide to leave each other alone and not push their opinions on others in the public sphere.  Forcing people not to believe, or to act like they don't, is about as bad as forcing people to act as if they were members of any particular religion.  I'm not an American Exceptionalist by any definition of the term, but I think the American take on freedom of religion, expression, and association has historically been much better than the European one(s).  I think it's worth trying to replicate and even improve upon on Mars.


-Josh

If you try to talk to me about cold fusion or propellantless drives I will ignore you.
Mod actions in red

Offline

#13 2017-10-22 19:51:20

JoshNH4H
Mod and Martian
From: New York, NY, USA, Earth, Sol
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,134
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

As far as what I would do, I think I would look to a very federal system where the planetary government is really only responsible for guaranteeing the rights of all Martians (more-or-less as defined in UDHR), handling truly planetary concerns (Terraforming/environment, land use, others, many of which can potentially be decided by direct democracy).

I do tend to favor parliamentary systems but there's something to be said for checks and balances.


-Josh

If you try to talk to me about cold fusion or propellantless drives I will ignore you.
Mod actions in red

Offline

#14 2017-10-23 06:36:01

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,599

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

Well, yes, we will require some sort of enforcement regime if there is to be a system of law. Initially this won't be specialised...more like the "Sherrif" appointing deputies from among the townsfolk like in the old Westerns I guess.

What about weapons?  Americans are very attached to their weapons - including in New Hampshire I believe. smile Of course there will be no hunting on Mars for the foreseeable future. Would gun ownership be justified on Mars? I don't think so, which means you need to have a law against personal gun ownership. But should the "state" have a monopoly on that sort of violence?  Should guns be entirely outlawed? But if someone runs amok and threatens to destroy the central life support system, don't we need to pacify the person? If so with what?  And what if some deranged person smuggled a gun in, or made one on a 3D printer?  Shouldn't the state or community be able to respond.

These aren't easy questions to answer which is why I think they need to be asked.

SpaceNut wrote:

The act of crime and a justice system only works when there is an enforcing entity along with all the other branches we are just duplicating earths systems on mars with the only caveat being religious is forced to be unified for all in cooperation.
.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#15 2017-10-23 06:40:08

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,599

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

And what if the thing you like to do in your colony is get an army together, printing guns on your 3D printers and then go invade other colonies?  What's to stop you doing that?

I think your approach is too permissive. You are saying anyone can emigrate to Mars and set up a colony - KKK? North Korea? ISIS? - and can follow any rules they wish (racist slavery? execution by AA battery of enemies of the people? full Sharia with complete oppression of women?).

That's not a good approach in my view. 

Terraformer wrote:

*shrugs* As I've said before, do what you like in your own colony. I doubt many people will want to move to it, though. They'll probably go for ones that offer somewhat more freedom, if they move to Mars.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#16 2017-10-23 08:21:29

JoshNH4H
Mod and Martian
From: New York, NY, USA, Earth, Sol
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,134
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

That's  why I like human rights as a unifying framework.  It gives individual towns tons of leeway as far as the structures and particular rules they choose for themselves as long as they're respecting the basic dignity of all people


-Josh

If you try to talk to me about cold fusion or propellantless drives I will ignore you.
Mod actions in red

Offline

#17 2017-10-23 10:25:49

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,479
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

I don't have an issue with the KKK setting up a colony, as long as they keep to themselves. I don't mind the Nation of Islam doing so either, or the Black Hebrew Israelites, or the Latin Kings if they can get the resources together... as long as they keep to themselves. Well, and don't hold people hostage. That's a very important one.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#18 2017-10-23 11:07:13

IanM
Member
From: Chicago
Registered: 2015-12-14
Posts: 167

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

Might I also propose a ban on peacetime conscription? I was thinking of such a ban only applying to the federal military, but if we're making the military solely a federal responsibility, and eschewing the National Guards of the US I guess it would be irrelevant.


The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever. -Paraphrased from Tsiolkovsky

Offline

#19 2017-10-23 13:30:07

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,479
Website

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

Why waste the effort? It makes even less sense than drawing up a map which divides the New World into various Principalities, Duchies, Counties, Baronies, and Manors, and then discussing who will be granted them.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#20 2017-10-25 22:30:18

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,166

Re: Make a Mars Law - it's time to get serious...

Here is the problem with space, that I've never seen solved theoretically.

Take X population and put them in a space measured A by B by C. Assuming maximum liberty, any 1 person in X population has the ability to kill all others. To mitigate, curtailment of liberty is needed, but such measures increase the likelihood of oppression and acts of depression, increasing the potential for 1 person in X population taking extreme measures.

Doubt me? Looks at today's asymmetrical warfare results. Look at the trade off we make at airports.

Screen for mental imbalance? Great idea until generation 2 is born and you no longer control your input.

The ironic thing is that the homogeneous groups will probably be more successful, especially if they have an "other" to vilify.

Solutions oh prophets of mars?

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB