What about the people plan, Elon?

louis · 2017-10-06 12:37:14

Lots of pathogens lie dormant in the human body and don't express until we come under some sort of stress. Cold sores are one example.

Oldfart1939 wrote:

About the planetary protection shtick: we simply avoid bringing pathogens from Earth. No vectors (mosquitos, flies, ticks, roaches, etc.) through a very strict quarantine procedure prior to departure. No pneumococci bacteria, no tuberculosis, etc. We avoid health problems on Mars through prevention. Only allowed bacteria would be found in the normal bowel flora of humans and other creatures. Yogurt type bacteria. The females would love a world without mice and spiders.

elderflower · 2017-10-07 03:34:26

There has to be yeast, of course!

GW Johnson · 2017-10-07 08:28:41

The "planetary protection" thing is another reason-not-to-go in disguise. We either decide to go, or not to go. The planet cannot be protected from all the skin and gut biologics that we must have to live. It really is that simple.

If there is life on Mars, then it has been in isolation from our life for billions of years. In an evolutionary sense, even if it is the same or similar to ours biochemically, that isolation makes it rather unlikely that there could be significant interaction. But no one can ever guarantee that! It is just inherently unknown until you go there and experience it.

So, it just gets down to a decision: do you want to go or not, knowing full well that your skin and sewage WILL pollute the place, no matter what habitat and suit designs you use?

If there is Mars life, it is a survivor clinging onto life in protected habitats after the surface dried up and became hostile. It is a remnant left over from more clement climates billions of years ago. If we terraform Mars, it will recolonize the surface. Otherwise, the harsh conditions will keep it bottled up underground, or wherever it is hidden.

If surface crews poking around in caves or drilling for resources come down with an unknown plague, then we know that the two kinds of life are similar enough to interact. We won't know a damned thing until and unless that happens.

That's an ugly assessment, but it is the only realistic one, near as I can tell. We took exactly the same risks when we went to the moon. NO ONE knew whether there was microbe life on the moon or not when we started going there. The isolation scheme we used with Apollo 11 was nothing but a guess, and likely would not have contained any putative moon microbes, really, when yo get right down to it. For example: what if the incubation time was longer than the 2 weeks they spent in isolation?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-10-07 08:32:12)

RobertDyck · 2017-10-07 11:31:37

The black plague swept through Europe several times. Each time it killed a smaller proportion of the population. Scientists used to think that meant it became less virulent (weaker), but modern science tells us black plague remained exactly the same. It was people who changed. Those with weak immune systems died, did not pass their genes on to the next generation. Those with strong immune systems survived; their children gained resistance to the plague. This is how evolution works; you can't have evolution unless a large portion of the population dies. How many diseases have we gained immunity to? Scientists are now studying Neanderthal DNA. They found immunity to mononucleosis came from Neanderthal; those black humans who came from Africa didn't have immunity to that disease. Remember, white people are hybrids between Neanderthal and black people from Africa. Our white skin and blond or red hair come from Neanderthal. Considering we have resistance to the black plague from 1346–1353, and from mononucleosis from migrations into Europe 45,000 years ago. How likely are we to be susceptible to disease from wet Mars 3.5 billion years ago?

Last edited by RobertDyck (2017-10-07 11:52:17)

louis · 2017-10-07 11:57:54

I agree. It's one of those existential moments when either you do or you don't. There are a million reasons not to go if you don't want to or are afraid to. Once we get there things will never be the same. Our whole perspective on Earth will change...probably even more so than when we saw the beautiful "Earthrise photo". I hope we can colonise without damaging any existing ecosystems on Mars, should they exist. We should try and minimise the damage, certainly. And if there are life forms there, it may affect decisions about whether and how we terraform. But we should definitely go. We are trying to maintain a pristine Antarctica, but humans still go there.

Your question about "what if the incubation time was longer than the 2 weeks they spent in isolation?" reminds me that I used to ask myself exactly the same question!

GW Johnson wrote:

The "planetary protection" thing is another reason-not-to-go in disguise. We either decide to go, or not to go. The planet cannot be protected from all the skin and gut biologics that we must have to live. It really is that simple.
If there is life on Mars, then it has been in isolation from our life for billions of years. In an evolutionary sense, even if it is the same or similar to ours biochemically, that isolation makes it rather unlikely that there could be significant interaction. But no one can ever guarantee that! It is just inherently unknown until you go there and experience it.
So, it just gets down to a decision: do you want to go or not, knowing full well that your skin and sewage WILL pollute the place, no matter what habitat and suit designs you use?
If there is Mars life, it is a survivor clinging onto life in protected habitats after the surface dried up and became hostile. It is a remnant left over from more clement climates billions of years ago. If we terraform Mars, it will recolonize the surface. Otherwise, the harsh conditions will keep it bottled up underground, or wherever it is hidden.
If surface crews poking around in caves or drilling for resources come down with an unknown plague, then we know that the two kinds of life are similar enough to interact. We won't know a damned thing until and unless that happens.
That's an ugly assessment, but it is the only realistic one, near as I can tell. We took exactly the same risks when we went to the moon. NO ONE knew whether there was microbe life on the moon or not when we started going there. The isolation scheme we used with Apollo 11 was nothing but a guess, and likely would not have contained any putative moon microbes, really, when yo get right down to it. For example: what if the incubation time was longer than the 2 weeks they spent in isolation?
GW

Oldfart1939 · 2017-10-07 12:50:04

I for one, am tired of all the lame excuses brought forward by the nay-sayers. Let's all hitch a ride on Elon's latest dream rocket and jus GO THERE!

louis · 2017-10-07 16:37:47

Yep, let's get behind him.

Oldfart1939 wrote:

I for one, am tired of all the lame excuses brought forward by the nay-sayers. Let's all hitch a ride on Elon's latest dream rocket and jus GO THERE!

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Re: What about the people plan, Elon?

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