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#26 2016-12-04 12:53:25

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 434

Re: Scientists here?

Oldfart.
Before the moderators jump on us we should move to new or existing threads whichever is appropriate.
I want to be able to make FRP structures, join them and seal them gas tight using locally derived materials.

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#27 2016-12-04 12:59:04

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 866

Re: Scientists here?

Then there should be a new thread started regarding a potential plastics industry on Mars. I'll leave that to you! I'm too much of a newbie here to egotistically undertake such...

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#28 2016-12-04 13:31:10

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 4,921
Website

Re: Scientists here?

Moving discussions, may I suggest...

Material Choices for Mars - This link will take you directly to post #34, where I included a link to my web page on plastics. I tried to give a very brief description how to make plastics on Mars. I included most common plastics used on Earth today.

NASA uses polycarbonate for spacesuit helmet visors, so we need that. But I suggest PolyChloroTriFluoroEthylene (PCTFE) as a polymer film for an inflatable greenhouse on Mars. But that fluoropolymer is hard to make, so suggest using that for a greenhouse transported from Earth. Because it's light-weight (low launch mass) and can be easily set up by astronauts in spacesuits. The idea of an inflatable greenhouse I got from "Case for Mars" papers, published before the founding of the Mars Society. But the author of one of those papers said she didn't know any polymer that could do the job. I took that as a challenge and found this one.

For greenhouse windows manufactured from local materials on Mars, I still think the easiest material to make is glass. Just normal glass.

One use for elastomer sealants and resins is seals. Glass windows will require an air-tight seal around the window frame. And the airlock door will experience wear, will have to be replaced. We usually use neoprene rubber for seals, but considering the extreme cold on Mars, would silicone rubber work better? What does NASA currently use for spacecraft docking hatches?

Crops - Another discussion you might be interested in. We get into the nitty-gritty of what crops to grow on a permanent settlement on Mars, and how big the greenhouse should be. I have argued Mars will initially be vegan. Not for any philosophical reason, just practicality. Livestock require a pressurized barn with hard walls, we can't use a plastic film greenhouse that they could bite, peck, claw, or otherwise picture a hole through. Livestock require air and water recycling, sewage processing. And livestock requires several pounds of feed to produce a single pound of meat. Pigs eat the same food we do, just less processed. And cattle normally eat grass or straw, but in a feed lot they're fed the same food we eat, again less processed. So in terms of minimum greenhouse area to feed humans on Mars, a vegan diet is just efficient. Besides, how do you get livestock to Mars? You don't want a cow in a space capsule with astronauts. When the capsule goes through high-G acceleration, to zero-G drift, high-G atmospheric entry, the cattle will freak out! Even if you use rotation like Robert Zubrin's design, there will be periods of zero-G. We came up with some solutions for this, but I argue livestock will be an advanced stage of settlement, not initial.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2016-12-04 16:58:10)

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#29 2016-12-04 19:02:43

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Scientists here?

Thanks for the subject topic references and for making them known to our new guest.....Not jumping on anyone but it is easier to read about a specific topic if its not spread out amoung 10 or 20 different topics that are not all that relating. Plus when someone does do a round up of these its much easier to create a wiki about the topic....which is something that this website had before the great crash....

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#30 2016-12-04 22:33:37

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 1,806

Re: Scientists here?

Sorry, if that's me spacenut.

Hey O.F. glad you are here.  I plan to not interfere with your potential contribution.

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#31 2017-09-07 11:08:16

CmdrHawkeyez
Member
From: Maine, USA
Registered: 2017-09-07
Posts: 2

Re: Scientists here?

I know Science is boring to many people, even me sometimes as everyone needs a break from things once in a while !

I do however like Science and Math, and Physics, and Astronomy, Music...well...point is I like to learn things.

As of late I have been working on space simulations working up basic chemical schemes for survival using the Kerbal Space Program game; I call it a SIM and use it as such although you can just have fun blowing things up with it too !

Now I have found "Take On Mars" which is a really nice game, sort of sim as I will be live streaming it as I just bought it and figured out a few problems and hope to have a really nice SIM going after today! Hop on over and watch my stream !

Hawkeyez


Follow Me On Twitch.Tv : CmdrHawkeyez

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#32 2017-09-07 15:57:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Scientists here?

Welcome to newmars and I see that you did post in a better topic about game play....

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