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Dave_Duca

Member

From: Oconto, WI usa

Registered: 2017-03-15

Posts: 92

Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

This might be one of the most evoking Topics.

Red Dragon - Mars Direct - Sample Return

What better way for Dr.Zubrin to put "proof of principle" to test than to have
all the Human Elements of Mars Direct ON BOARD the Red Dragon, for the purpose
of a Sample-Return Mission  ----  AT THE SAME TIME.

Never mind the impatient parochial social media.

"Dragon-Direct-Red-Sample-Returning"      (DDRSR )
That even sounds extremely COOL !

Here's the point - get the hardware there and prove that it works
The absolute proof is when the Reg Dragon re-enters Earth Orbit for Rendezvous.

THIS is where I would put my money !

It speaks better money spent than the political platitudes of intelectualism.

RobS

Banned

From: South Bend, IN

Registered: 2002-01-15

Posts: 1,701

Website

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

A dragon capsule doesn't carry enough propellant to return it to Earth from the Martian surface, and if it could, it would be too heavy for a Falcon Heavy to push it to Mars. The escape velocity of Mars is roughly twice the exhaust velocity of the hypergolic propellants of the superdraco engines, so the capsule would need to carry about 5 or 6 times as much propellant as its dry mass.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

The current jpl nasa group mission plan is to carry a rocket inside the mars Red Dragon for sample return once its loaded up with its take from mars.

Dave_Duca

Member

From: Oconto, WI usa

Registered: 2017-03-15

Posts: 92

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

Understood Rob,
   "Mars Direct Inside Red Dragon" is the main theme.

Scaled Down Versions of EVERYTHING, Onboard - to Test, EVERYTHING.

The Mission Duration equal to Mars Direct - OR - Venus assist in 2/3's the time ( roughly-ish )

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

I did a scaled for mars Falcon 9 lander as if it was in mars orbit landing and then would get refueled on mars if we have the magical means to create the fuel needed. Of course modify the dragon with no heatshield for earth and other silly options as mars would not needed them.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 47#p135447

Needless to say we would recalculate the sizing based on fuels that we be able to make plus change out the engines ofr the fuel as well.

Rocket lander would still be 40 meters tall at the 3.7 meters diameter but since that such a long way to the ground I would change the geometry to a 10 meter diameter and that would bring the hieght back down to 15 meters...

Problem is no company is making  mars lander for cargo or crew at this time....

Dave_Duca

Member

From: Oconto, WI usa

Registered: 2017-03-15

Posts: 92

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

Wonder if TMS would present this as a  challenge ( or, a "mission driven" contest )
By which a request made to Space-X of the Red Dragon's Unlaiden Launch Weight.

I'm sticking with the ERV Style as seen in: The Mars Underground... But, much shorter.
( Dragon, plus 9 feet for bottom shield, landing, descent, power plant )

We could assimilate the mass of a 2 person cargo. But, of course, the aerospace industry's
"highly credentialed political engineers" will say otherwise.

I would still entertain a Mission Driven Contest...

Interesting

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

MarsDrive use to put on such paper contests and the last was a sample return mission design to which Dr.Zubrin was I think part of the panel that judged the winner but that was years ago....

MarDrive, Red Colony each like NewMars had a software crash issue plus hacker attacks as well to which MarsDrive is in a restarting mode but now forum, Red colony has a contaminated forum back up loaded with spammers with Newmars back on solid ground.

dickens090

InActive

Registered: 2017-08-22

Posts: 1

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

That is so cool. I cannot agree with you more.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

Currently Red Dragon is on the back burner and may be decades (groans deeply) before visited again. Even the secondary use for the moon with its extended life support capability may not happen very soon.

Dave_Duca

Member

From: Oconto, WI usa

Registered: 2017-03-15

Posts: 92

Re: Red Dragon and the Mars Direct

I truly hope Bob Zubrin is reading these comments-upon-comments.