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#351 2017-07-30 08:42:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

Trying to post to page 15 of this topic which is indicating a sync error for table issue
That way I can see what happens.
Will delete post or edit it if it works

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#352 2017-08-10 16:29:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

I was thinking about the list of needs that we take for granted and the biggest is Earth sun combination as without these we would have none of the topic titled items. Which is solar energy and gravity which allows for the radiational shield as well as atmospheric containment.
As we go to mars we will need to not only provide that base line of needs but those that we take for granted as well.

So what is the real solar energy level that man needs as its also part of mans waste recovery process.

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#353 2017-08-10 17:39:07

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,675

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

I like to reverse this way of thinking. If there were a Martian civilisation thinking about visiting Earth how might they compare our conditions with theirs? Might their expert opinion not read something like the following:

Huge oceans of liquid H2O cover the vast majority of the planet's surface posing severe risk to landing craft.  The ocean swells rise to many times the size of a Martian. Landing craft even if equipped with flotation devices may be sunk in the liquid H2O in storm conditions.

There are many other hazards. Earthquakes can quickly destroy any surface settlements. Huge wind storms and vortices - far worse than those on Mars - can also wipe out any surface structures.

Where earthquakes trigger huge ocean waves, any coastal settlements would be destroyed in their entirety.

Where the H20 is frozen, any landing craft is likely to be crushed by the constantly moving solid structures.

Any individual Martian in an exposed area may be subject to a lightning strike and be turned to cinders.

There are also many large organisms on Earth which will view Martians as food and thus  destroy them in order to eat them.

In addition there are a wide range of microscopic organisms (pathogens) that can potentially kill Martians through disease to which we have no resistance.

It is also considered that the stronger gravity and weaker radiation will play havoc with our essential organic functions.

Conclusion: under no circumstances should we venture to Earth.




SpaceNut wrote:

I was thinking about the list of needs that we take for granted and the biggest is Earth sun combination as without these we would have none of the topic titled items. Which is solar energy and gravity which allows for the radiational shield as well as atmospheric containment.
As we go to mars we will need to not only provide that base line of needs but those that we take for granted as well.

So what is the real solar energy level that man needs as its also part of mans waste recovery process.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#354 2017-08-29 15:35:30

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

clark wrote:

Perhaps they realize that building and demonstrating a proto-type of a Martian settlement on Earth is the quickest way to demonstrate the disadvantages to living off planet.

Reporter: So what do you do all day?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Er, um, I sit inside, under the flickering lights, driving this little rover around in vacum.
Reporter: What do you do for fun?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Well, most of the time we have to do saftey drills,  do diagnostic sweeps, calibrate sensors, and triple check the machinery we pretend to depend on for life.
Reporter: So what are the advantages of pretending to live on Mars?
Proto-Mars Colonist: That's what we are trying to figure out, so far we have "science".
Reporter: What is the food like?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Rich and varied, all nutrious- of course by Earthly standards, it is sparse and tasteless. We have very little room for luxaries, as the cost is too great. Most of our food is soy based. Most of us would kill for ice cream, we feel for our Antartic cousins.
Reporter: Speaking of killing, is there crime in your community?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Nah, not really- what with all the cameras and other base sensors that monitor the status of the habitat 24/7, and the fact that we live in an enclosed and regulated environment, there is little opportunity for crime. Of course, it would be nice to have cloudy and cold days now and then, but the temp regs require 72 degrees, all the time- and due to the need for constant work throughout the day for maintainence, the lights are always the same in the general area.
Reporter: Why do you think people would want to go to mars?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Why? For the adventure of course, dosen't my life sound like an adventure? Well, dosen't it?

You tell mme.

You bring up good points of how isolated the colonist will be and how that they must become a sustainable colony very early.

The Contralmirante wrote:

It is very boring. But there is one aspect of colonizing Mars you forgot about. Renewable food. A food garden would be a must have for real Mars colonists. If an Apollo 13 type malfunction delays a supply run, with rations their only food, colonists are dead. One hundred percent isolation from the outside world (including reporters) would be a necessary part of establishing a test colony on Earth. Also B-12 deprivation is a serious issue. Without a high-tech chem-lab as part of the colony for creating artificial pills and liquids with vital nutrients like that, a full blown ecosystem within the real Mars complex would be necessary, including keeping animals for slaughter.

There are many such issues I see with colonizing Mars, but I'm determined to come up with solutions to every single one of them, same as the rest of you, I assume.

Would be very tragic for any member to die from any and starvation should not be on the list.

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#355 2017-09-22 13:04:27

Kolbytivy
Banned
Registered: 2017-09-22
Posts: 2

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

Ive feed him every food in the house except for the porridge then what?

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#356 2017-09-24 18:21:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

Yes the human body can eat just about anything within reason but at some point if there are no supplies coming and crops have failed then we have a real problem.
We better send more stuff to preload any site before man even thinks of going.

That should be the challenge to send 10 ton preload of things that men will need to a given predetermined site. Seeing just how close they can land to the designated location....

Sounds like a new prize contest.....RED Eagle xprise.....open to anyone just like the COTS, Lunar xprise and so on.....

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#357 2017-10-21 17:40:54

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

I happened upon a story via a grocery store cashier...

It goes like this in that a couple was looking at there food bills and came up with a plan to save money in that for the first 3 weeks of a month they would buy there food and on the 4th would buy none.
This would in either case cause them to eat 1/3 rd less food in the first 3 weeks each in order to be able to eat during the 4th as one senerio of what could be, with a second was to buy 1/3 more food but at the same cost as the original planned food costs and the third would be to buy the food and the final choice is to spend status quo over the 3 weeks that would be funded by 4 weeks of cash.

Applying this to mars and a greenhouse I think targetting food production for the 4th week is a valid way to look at how to reduce the food mass to mars....rather than trying to go for sustianability of 100% from the get go...

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#358 2017-10-21 18:15:45

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,675

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

Well, yes, I agree - and I would say the 4 weeks of the parable equates to 4 years of colonisation. After 4 years the Mars colony should be functionally self-sufficient in food, although no doubt various "treats and meats" will be imported...but it could support itself in food if necessary.

SpaceNut wrote:

I happened upon a story via a grocery store cashier...

It goes like this in that a couple was looking at there food bills and came up with a plan to save money in that for the first 3 weeks of a month they would buy there food and on the 4th would buy none.
This would in either case cause them to eat 1/3 rd less food in the first 3 weeks each in order to be able to eat during the 4th as one senerio of what could be, with a second was to buy 1/3 more food but at the same cost as the original planned food costs and the third would be to buy the food and the final choice is to spend status quo over the 3 weeks that would be funded by 4 weeks of cash.

Applying this to mars and a greenhouse I think targetting food production for the 4th week is a valid way to look at how to reduce the food mass to mars....rather than trying to go for sustianability of 100% from the get go...


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#359 2017-11-01 18:24:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Air. Shelter. Water. Food.

Just went 3 days with out power and it brings to mind that unless we have a huge habitat full of air and water as well as food its power that is the large straw on the priority list followed by depending on whether you have a large space to start with for the staying of the enevitable for lack of power.

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