New Mars Forums

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: "NASA...You have a problem..."

As he does in all his posts on all topics, RobS makes a string of very pertinent points about Mars v. Luna; the most important being that it cannot be seen as a competition. Both bodies are important and must be part of a sensible, practical, and structured program.
   I confess I've always been in the "Gungho for Mars!" camp, a la Bob Zubrin. I've tended to agree that Luna could (and would) become an expensive, time-consuming side-show which would push Mars ever further into an uncertain future. But RobS and others are beginning to get their message through to me (even dense rock eventually succumbs to dripping water) and I am now much more amenable to the idea of a lunar base. In fact from a purely selfish viewpoint, looking at conceivable time-frames for the establishment of lunar tourist facilities, it's probably my only chance of getting to another celestial body before my appointment with a pine box!!
   But let's not allow any push for the Moon to become the only show in town. At best, I still see Luna as a handy stepping stone on our way to Mars; though I do agree that if it's handled properly, it may allow us to go to Mars in style by virtue of its possible stores of potential rocket fuel in a shallower gravity well.
   You've almost got me convinced, guys!!
                                                             

---

The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

Bill White

Member

Registered: 2001-09-09

Posts: 2,114

Re: "NASA...You have a problem..."

Shaun writes:

<< But let's not allow any push for the Moon to become the only show in town. At best, I still see Luna as a handy stepping stone on our way to Mars; though I do agree that if it's handled properly, it may allow us to go to Mars in style by virtue of its possible stores of potential rocket fuel in a shallower gravity well.

You've almost got me convinced, guys!! >>

I agree 100% that an either/or approach should be rejected.

As far as permanent settlements go, however, no one seems to discuss the national security dangers posed by a permanent lunar base, especially if it has a railgun facility.

25 years ago I read Heinlien's novel "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and I doubt the physics has changed since then. Simply put, a lunar railgun is a weapon of mass destruction that will send the US Pentagon and the US Space Command into apoplexy.

I daresay the Pentagon will not allow any railguns in space until a defense system is developed (unless the railgun is built and controlled by the US military) and developing a defense against packages sent from a hostile facility on Mars - given a transit time measured in months - will be far easier than building a defense against packages sent from Luna, with a transit time of 72 hours or less.

Low cost commercially available Earth to LEO launch systems would seem to suffer from the same dangers.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I feel that any program for entering space will need to be designed in a manner that minimizes the fears of the generals in charge of US Space Command.

AndyM

Member

Registered: 2002-02-20

Posts: 15

Re: "NASA...You have a problem..."

Why does the American military have to get involved in space? Worried about an attack from a hostile nation? It all becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Pentagon foresees a hypothetical threat and puts weapons in space. Other countries feel threatened by American power and consequently also put weapons in space, thereby posing the threat which led to the Pentagon putting weapons in space initially. And we all dance around in nice little circles.

I was happy to read about the Chinese space ambitions on www.spacedaily.com. I thought it might finally get the American space program back on track by giving the US some healthy competition. But I had forgotten about the Pentagon's paranoia. Notice by the way, how all articles on SpaceDaily regarding China are in a section named "Dragon Space". Nice and threatening, huh?

GOM

Member

Registered: 2001-09-08

Posts: 127

Re: "NASA...You have a problem..."

And we all dance around in nice little circles.

There was no dancing around in nice little circles during World War II.  World War III will be much worse.

If you think the US has no enemies, you are being quite naive.  It is sad for us dreamers that space must be considered in military terms, but that's the reality of the situation.

RobS

Banned

From: South Bend, IN

Registered: 2002-01-15

Posts: 1,701

Website

Re: "NASA...You have a problem..."

On the issue of a rail gun, I am not too worried about it being viewed as a potential weapon. Anything launched from the moon toward Earth--including a manned vehicle--has the potential to serve as a weapon. But the Earth's atmosphere protects us from anything small--that is, less than tens of tons--pretty well. So any kind of launcher that throws, say, a ton of lunar materials into space at a time cannot serve as a weapon against Earth because of the shielding effect of the terrestrial atmosphere.

I agree with others that an electromagnetic launcher is probably the best way to get stuff off the moon and back to the Earth. The moon has libration, which would tend to move the surface around under a lunar elevator or tether, complicating their effectiveness. A tether possibly could compensate by changing its orbit, but I think a lunar elevator might have a harder time of compensating.

                  -- RobS

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 28,832

Re: "NASA...You have a problem..."

Another artifact and shifting topic has been fixed...

Fixing these old topics shows me that we are still talking about going to mars still and not what it will take to do it.