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#351 2017-02-12 21:01:54

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 1,806

Re: Venus

Kind of like a dream come true.

I recall in Sci Fi some kind of a nuclear suit that would have a radiator that would glow incandescent, with a human in it.

Here, on this site, there has been speculation on an eventual robot mining operation, but I felt that such capabilities would be a long time off, the electronics for it.

http://www.universetoday.com/104296/sai … ish-venus/
zephyr-580x435.jpg

After the exploration phase, if the equipment works, and life is not found in the clouds, I see no reason to not elevate the colonization of Venus to the highest level.

It has everything needed, but it will be a test.  A test that may likely be good for the human race.

Imagine a solar system with 3 habituated terrestrial planets.

I guess for machines though on the surface of Venus, they have to design the parts with the expectation that they will swell in the heat.  But a method should work.  As for power on the early machines, perhaps indeed fission reactors, maybe wind generated energy stored and released.  But of course if you have a cloud city there would be many ways to get power down to the surface from it.

Last edited by Void (2017-02-12 21:09:33)

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#352 2017-02-21 18:39:43

knightdepaix
Member
Registered: 2014-07-07
Posts: 89

Re: Venus

I have a fantasy question.
Regarding the garbage problem on earth, how about dumping garbage from the Earth onto a giant man-dug hole from a volcanic crater or even onto an active crater? Let the lava engulf the garbage. Given the higher atmospheric pressure and temperature than on the Earth and the heat from lava, composition in garbage will change. Robotic mining will then scrape the cooled lava. The ores with previous garbage composition could be sent off the Venus, not to mention sulfuric acid is available as a chemical reactant.

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#353 2017-02-21 21:44:52

SpaceNut
Moderator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 9,699

Re: Venus

I would love to see an advance balloon system that would keep an atmospheric probe alot for long periods of time to get more scientific data about this super hot planet.

So we know that we need a very large light mass aeroshell for the probe to ride into the atmosphere. I would say we are looking to have it open somewhere near the 1 atmosphere level or slightly higher.

I would think that an RTG would be the correct choice for a power source to which we could make it work on the surface to help cool the electronics once its does lower to the ground due to the heat differential between it and the air temperature.

I would think that we can get away with a lower mass heatshield as well to make it easier to send it to the planet on current rocket launchers.

As far as garbage I would send it to mars and create the artifical volcano with the help of lasers onces its placed into a volcanic cone.

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#355 2017-02-22 07:52:30

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 361

Re: Venus

Hot "air" balloons could work in the atmospheres of the outer planets and of Titan, perhaps. Heat source would be the radio isotopes that also provide power.

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#356 2017-02-22 12:20:38

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Venus

A cold hydrogen balloon would work just fine in the atmosphere of Titan, since that atmosphere is mostly nitrogen, just like ours.

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#357 2017-02-22 20:11:48

SpaceNut
Moderator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 9,699

Re: Venus

Still need to have the program funded for a mission other wise its just more concepts turned out to keep that rock rolling down the road.

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#358 2017-04-25 01:57:35

knightdepaix
Member
Registered: 2014-07-07
Posts: 89

Re: Venus

An idea off the top when reading a NASA article. Carbon dioxide is supercritical at lower altitudes of Venus' atmosphere while higher up the atmosphere and temperature is similar to the planet Earth's terrestial conditions. So how about using the supercritical carbon dioxide for manufacturing? Manufacturing shall require less technological, financial and other commitments than terraforming.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar … 2316303852
Electrolysis of lithium and/or sodium carbonates yield carbon nanostructured materials.

So does establishment of a floating factory complex at lower altitudes of Venus' atmosphere and a floating communities of thousand people for the factory personnel and their family and social relations make sense? Those human consume the oxygen evolved in electrolysis. The manufactured carbon with other chemical element input serve a basis for carbon based human life in that community.

A similar manufacturing factory complex communities can also be established on the Earth's moon for mining helium-3 and iron from lunar regolith. By idea, the hydrogen gas from helium-3 nuclear fusion is sent to Venus for making water with the oxygen from the aforementioned carbonate. Also by idea, the helium-4 gas from that nuclear fusion keeps the Venus' floating community and factory complex afloat.

The transport of chemical elements to Venus for sustaining the floating communities would be an issue. Does selling the manufactured goods of carbon based material, for example synthetic diamond, carbon nanometerials, graphene, by fully using Venus' supercritical carbon dioxide and its temperature and pressure of its atmosphere make sense?

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#360 2017-04-26 09:02:18

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Venus

Venus is a potential other Earth. There is a rock, 250 miles in diameter that will com within 50 AU of the Sun SY99 I think it was called, it takes 20,000 years to complete an orbit, it will reach perihelion in 2054. If we perfect whole body suspended animation and have a spaceship that can get us there, we can perhaps see this terraformed Venus for ourselves.
th?id=OIP.IInHspiCkMCQClBd5EvAMQEsEL&pid=15.1
Which Venus will we see when SY99 comes around again? Will it be this one?
terraforming-venus.jpg
Or this one? Seems to me, we can set robots to work on Venus and go on a 20,000 year trip around the Sun, and presumably when we get back, there will be a terraformed Venus ready for us to occupy an inhabit, the only monkey wrench in this plan is what the other seven billion humans and their robots will be doing on the planet next door, will they interfere?

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#361 2017-04-26 16:12:53

SpaceNut
Moderator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 9,699

Re: Venus

I like the second image best but why should man even take 200 years let alone 20,000... We just need to start going and that means something other than sending robotic crafts...We need to send men...

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#362 2017-04-27 00:05:54

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Venus

The payoff is we get a second home for mankind, unfortunately it takes a long time to terraform Venus, we need to send the people who are investing their money in terraforming Venus into the distant future so they can live on Venus and realize a return on their investment, does that make any sense to you?

Terraforming Venus is a real estate development project after all. How long before you can start living in your new home after you put down the money for Terraforming Venus, we may be able to shorten their perceived passage of time by putting them in suspended animation, this is much the same for travel to distant stars, it is as much a travel in time as it is travel in space, with Venus it is only travel in time. In 20,000 years we can have a fully grown ecosystem with ancient forests on Venus, we can have plentiful wildlife, and those investors, when they come out of suspended animation, can take an axe and start building a log cabin.

Last edited by Tom Kalbfus (2017-04-27 00:11:15)

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#363 2017-05-18 16:10:39

knightdepaix
Member
Registered: 2014-07-07
Posts: 89

Re: Venus

Do we want raining in the terraformed Venus? It remains me of Ray Bradbury's All Summer in a Day.

Meanwhile during the terraforming or before terrraforming, how can human make use of the abundant carbon and oxygen in Venus atmosphere? I am thinking about manufacturing on industrial scale graphite, synthetic diamond, carbon nanomaterials and graphite oxide. These locally sourced materials and imported from the Earth's moon helium-4 are used for constructing the floating settlement and keeping it afloat. In addition, if organic oxygen and carbon materials are exported, few oxocarbons could be made. Mellitic anhydride C12O9 melts at
434K under normal conditions. To carry appropriate metals along with organic materials, bulk metal, ammonium or organic mellitates can be stored in appropriate amount and proportion before export. The soft mineral honeystone is the di-aluminum salt. A spaceship trip from the Earth's Moon brings helium-4, to the Moon exports the anhydride which picked up byproduct metals from the refining processes for helium-3. Then on the destination site on Mars, the bulk metal salts are broken down into their components. 

These carbon and oxygen based materials are going to exported to Mars and the Earth to help sustain the terraformation of Venus.

Last edited by knightdepaix (2017-05-18 16:11:31)

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