3D printing of glass...

louis · 2017-05-11 06:31:53

One for Dook, since I know he loves 3D printers and their rapidly expanding range of applications!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology … rent-glass

SpaceNut · 2017-05-11 17:20:43

Seems after a quick google of key phase that others are also work to solve the how to do this with a 3 D Printing process.

http://www.3dprintingprogress.com/artic … g-of-glass
https://3dprint.com/173135/llnl-3d-prin … ss-optics/
MIT Printing transparent glass in 3-D

In operation, the device’s hopper, and a nozzle through which the glass is extruded to form an object, are maintained at temperatures of about 1,900 degrees Fahrenheit, far higher than the temperatures used for other 3-D printing. The stream of glowing molten glass from the nozzle resembles honey as it coils onto a platform, cooling and hardening as it goes.
One challenge the researchers faced was keeping the filament of glass hot enough so the next layer of the structure would adhere to it, but not so hot that the structure would collapse into a shapeless lump.

3D Printing of transparent glass

Glass is a silica-based material. With 90% of the earths crust composed of silicate minerals, there will be no shortage of silica resources. Glass is easy to recycle and is environmentally friendly. Glass is inexpensive but looks precious, is pleasant to the touch and is so familiar that customers will not be disappointed by its fragility under certain conditions.

http://www.advancedsciencenews.com/3d-p … ent-glass/
ASNfeatured-image_adma201701181-3DGlass_News_Portal_Image-1024x614.png
3D-printed transparent glass is prepared using a two-step method that shows promise for the creation of glass optics as well as intricate glass structures.

http://www.3dtectonix.com/3DPrinted-Rea … rent-Glass
https://www.dezeen.com/2015/08/26/neri- … media-lab/

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Dook · 2017-05-11 18:00:54

I can't think of a single life support component that is made of glass.

And, if you're thinking of making glass greenhouse panels, well, you can't bolt glass to anything, it's too brittle. It will shatter. So you can't make your greenhouse out of only glass panels.

You could make the greenhouse panels out of very strong plastic and bond a layer of glass to the outside of the strong plastic and bolt the plastic panels to each other. The glass on the outside would give the panels some weight to resist the internal pressurization that would be trying to lift the domed greenhouse from the ground.

louis · 2017-05-11 18:12:08

I am thinking more chemistry and storage for glass.

Glass is excellent for both...and the whole point of going to Mars is surely to discover some new and interesting stuff. We'll need chemicals and chemicals will need to be stored in something. Glassware is great for that. Plus lots of regolith recovery could be stored in glass jars.

Dook wrote:

I can't think of a single life support component that is made of glass.
And, if you're thinking of making glass greenhouse panels, well, you can't bolt glass to anything, it's too brittle. It will shatter. So you can't make your greenhouse out of only glass panels.
You could make the greenhouse panels out of very strong plastic and bond a layer of glass to the outside of the strong plastic and bolt the plastic panels to each other. The glass on the outside would give the panels some weight to resist the internal pressurization that would be trying to lift the domed greenhouse from the ground.

SpaceNut · 2017-05-11 18:37:27

Plus once you can make the feed stock for it from mars insitu resources you now have a hugh export product to sell back home on earth to the very rich....

louis · 2017-05-11 19:23:50

I think you're right...how could a rich person resist something "made on Mars"? Doesn't have to be that great a product - just the fact it comes from Mars creates that huge, huge interest that translates in dollars.

SpaceNut wrote:

Plus once you can make the feed stock for it from mars insitu resources you now have a hugh export product to sell back home on earth to the very rich....

SpaceNut · 2017-05-11 19:39:07

The science missions of the first few will take priority but if we do not shift to being able to self fund, make sustainable and transition that to science being second with the first colony developing we will be all done.

In short order as just how many times will we go and then turn around after doing the science to do it all again before some one will say well we have done that so no need to do it again, shut it down.

We are on mars for a very long period to do science and even if we land in a second place we will only have just so much that we could and will do to answer the few questions that we have.....

louis · 2017-05-11 19:48:37

Science and society take precedence but revenue generation are necessary to support them long term, once the numbers of Mars residents gets beyond 100. A proportion of that community will be supported by internal Mars economic activity (e.g. construction, life support, energy generation, agriculture and food processing) but many perhaps most will be supported by trade and contact with Earth e.g. supporting university research on Mars, selling regolith and Mars meteorites to people on Earth and producing luxury goods like Mars Rolex watches.

SpaceNut wrote:

The science missions of the first few will take priority but if we do not shift to being able to self fund, make sustainable and transition that to science being second with the first colony developing we will be all done.
In short order as just how many times will we go and then turn around after doing the science to do it all again before some one will say well we have done that so no need to do it again, shut it down.
We are on mars for a very long period to do science and even if we land in a second place we will only have just so much that we could and will do to answer the few questions that we have.....

Last edited by louis (2017-05-11 19:49:33)

Oldfart1939 · 2017-05-11 20:52:51

The biggest "export" from Mars to Earth would be mineral specimens unlike any of those found on the home planet. Even more exciting--fossils if they are found. That alone would keep funds coming for discovery of more exotic minerals.

louis · 2017-05-12 06:32:11

Fossils would have huge value. You could easily be talking about 100 million dollars per kg.

But even rare meteorites will be in the million dollar per kg range.

Oldfart1939 wrote:

The biggest "export" from Mars to Earth would be mineral specimens unlike any of those found on the home planet. Even more exciting--fossils if they are found. That alone would keep funds coming for discovery of more exotic minerals.

Oldfart1939 · 2017-05-12 07:47:27

What we really DON'T know about Mars, geologically, is how long the planetary oceans lasted. Primiodal bacteria -being plants themselves having cell walls--could have produced an oxygenated sea allowing development of Trilobites and Nautiloids. I'd love to see something like that found! Museums and collectors could run prices into the millions for a single specimen.

Oldfart1939 · 2017-05-12 07:49:53

On the other hand--I've seen Moon rocks. Not. Interesting. They look just like---rocks.

Antius · 2017-05-12 09:04:24

louis wrote:

I think you're right...how could a rich person resist something "made on Mars"? Doesn't have to be that great a product - just the fact it comes from Mars creates that huge, huge interest that translates in dollars.
SpaceNut wrote:
Plus once you can make the feed stock for it from mars insitu resources you now have a hugh export product to sell back home on earth to the very rich....

You are essentially relying on the novelty value of a product that is otherwise identical to one made on Earth, but has the prestige of being made on another planet. The problem with that idea is that prestige wears off the more of an item you sell. It also gets old once your Mars Rolexes have been around for a while. A colony on Mars will need to spend tens billions of dollars on imports every year. How many Mars Rolexes or bottles of wine would you need to sell to meet the colony import bill?

I think realistically we need to find a product that goes beyond simple novelty value. It has to be something that cannot be produced on Earth, is very much in demand on Earth and is affordable to transport. Precious metals may have a limited market, if they are more abundant on Mars. The only other commodity I can think of is energy. The thing that springs to mind is solar power satellites. The Martian atmosphere is thin enough that a mass driver should work on its surface.

Oldfart1939 · 2017-05-12 09:16:31

An item mentioned by Zubrin is Deuterium; it's 6x as abundant on Mars as on the Earth. IF we ever get a Thermonuclear industry up and running on Earth, Deuterium becomes marketable at $10,000 a kg.

louis · 2017-05-12 10:04:12

I've mentioned Rolex watches before now because there is a clear synergy between Mars, men and money...Rolexes can sell for tens of thousands of dollars. The Mars Rolex would be right up there at the top of the price range. It could incorporate Mars gems or some Mars regolith in the face. I have absolutely no doubt there would be a substantial market for them. The annual Rolex sales revenue is $4.5 billion. I think a Mars watch industry could easily move swiftly to capture several hundred million dollars of that market. And of course Rolex aren't the only players. A billion dollar pa Mars watch industry in a global sector that sells 1,200 million watches every year is not fantasy but a brilliant business opportunity. It won't be a novelty industry, it will be a permanent feature of the planet's output along with art work, scientific research, meteorites, and so on.

I can't see how solar power satellites could be manufactured more cheaply on Mars, at least not for many decades.

Antius wrote:

louis wrote:
I think you're right...how could a rich person resist something "made on Mars"? Doesn't have to be that great a product - just the fact it comes from Mars creates that huge, huge interest that translates in dollars.
SpaceNut wrote:
Plus once you can make the feed stock for it from mars insitu resources you now have a hugh export product to sell back home on earth to the very rich....
You are essentially relying on the novelty value of a product that is otherwise identical to one made on Earth, but has the prestige of being made on another planet. The problem with that idea is that prestige wears off the more of an item you sell. It also gets old once your Mars Rolexes have been around for a while. A colony on Mars will need to spend tens billions of dollars on imports every year. How many Mars Rolexes or bottles of wine would you need to sell to meet the colony import bill?
I think realistically we need to find a product that goes beyond simple novelty value. It has to be something that cannot be produced on Earth, is very much in demand on Earth and is affordable to transport. Precious metals may have a limited market, if they are more abundant on Mars. The only other commodity I can think of is energy. The thing that springs to mind is solar power satellites. The Martian atmosphere is thin enough that a mass driver should work on its surface.

Oldfart1939 · 2017-05-12 10:33:59

One other item to mention; should Musk realize his dream with the "Big Effing Rocket," sending it back to Earth empty ("dead head") isn't a good option. This would substantially lower the cost of goods transportation my several significant figures.

louis · 2017-05-12 13:47:27

Really, the more you think about it, the more one can think of Mars products that will sell well back on Earth. There will be huge demand for Mars-made products from the worldwide Star Wars/Star Trek/Dr Who fraternity. You can probably start with t shirts...maybe with a tiny pouch of Mars regolith.

Terraformer · 2017-05-12 13:49:46

Until the novelty wears off.

Antius · 2017-05-12 14:07:52

I had no idea that Rolex were so big. Maybe it would work. $1 billion is only a small part of the total revenues needed, but not an insubstantial sum.

Solar power satellites are undoubtedly a long shot. But the global energy market is worth about $10 trillion per year. Grab even 5% of it and you have all the money you need to develop a Martian colony. It is difficult to imagine another product that could earn such large revenues.

Unlike most other renewable energy technologies, an SPS does not suffer from intermittent supply. If it can produce electricity at the same cost per KWh as Earth based solar power, it would still have a big advantage. If a 10,000MW satellite sells for $10billion per GW, it would be worth $100billion. If your estimates for thin film array mass are to be believed, the mass of the panels would be 3500 tonnes. If Musk can deliver the necessary equipment to Mars and Mars orbit for $500/kg, the mass leverage offered by using Martian materials could allow satellites to be constructed for an order of magnitude less money than it would cost to launch them from Earth.

Last edited by Antius (2017-05-12 14:41:26)

louis · 2017-05-12 15:39:37

I don't understand this argument. Has the novelty of the Taj Mahal worn off? Has the novelty of Faberge eggs worn off? Has the novelty of Swiss watch making worn off? No, no, no.

Terraformer wrote:

Until the novelty wears off.

Terraformer · 2017-05-12 15:51:12

Faberge eggs would be worth a lot less if there were a lot more of them.

My understanding is that Swiss watches are so expensive because they're very high quality, not for novelty reasons.

On the other hand, different markets have different saturation points. You might be able to make some money by appealing to the conspicuous consumption of the super-rich. A small bottle of Martian champagne here, a Martian watch there... bear in mind, though, that there are only around 2000 billionaires around today. The number of super-rich is limited. You'd probably be better off appealing to a minority of them to just give you money, as part of their legacy.

louis · 2017-05-12 17:06:00

Swiss based Swatch is a world leader in watch making...it produces many inexpensive models.

I think that a Mars Consortium that went in with a proper business plan could develop several successful lines. Watches, jewelry, chiffon scarves, Mars wine come to mind.

Mars wine might be a novelty but there are probably a couple of billion drinkers of wine on planet Earth so I doubt the novelty would wear off. The problem with wine is the mass to average value ratio...that would make it difficult to export in quantity.

Terraformer wrote:

Faberge eggs would be worth a lot less if there were a lot more of them.
My understanding is that Swiss watches are so expensive because they're very high quality, not for novelty reasons.
On the other hand, different markets have different saturation points. You might be able to make some money by appealing to the conspicuous consumption of the super-rich. A small bottle of Martian champagne here, a Martian watch there... bear in mind, though, that there are only around 2000 billionaires around today. The number of super-rich is limited. You'd probably be better off appealing to a minority of them to just give you money, as part of their legacy.

SpaceNut · 2017-05-12 20:35:38

Back to glass...
We will in time need to make the colonists there own sets of dishes. Windows for anything poking above the surface of mars. Mirrors for concentrating the sun. We count on so many things in everyday life to which when we do start to stay and not return on every mars cycle we will want to be able to build and expand what we have.

In my earlier post I made reference to 2 different versions of how to make glass via 3 D printing...With this we may also be able to make ceramics with a little tweak of the equipment...

louis · 2017-05-13 02:45:25

I think you have picked on three top priorities there SpaceNut.

With ceramics I would like to see the colonists at an early stage work on basalt. It needs a lot of energy to melt it, but the process of forming basalt in moulds couldn't be much simpler. I think basalt might for instance be useful for electrolysis processes - for creating electrolyte tanks. It will of course be useful for creating kitchen and bathroom ware.

SpaceNut wrote:

Back to glass...
We will in time need to make the colonists there own sets of dishes. Windows for anything poking above the surface of mars. Mirrors for concentrating the sun. We count on so many things in everyday life to which when we do start to stay and not return on every mars cycle we will want to be able to build and expand what we have.
In my earlier post I made reference to 2 different versions of how to make glass via 3 D printing...With this we may also be able to make ceramics with a little tweak of the equipment...

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-23 08:35:21

This is a follow up to #24 about 3D Printing of Ceramics

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/made … 25361.html

The company doing this work changed hands recently. The market being explored is on Earth.

The capability would certainly seem applicable for use on Mars, but it would reside on Phobos if not a free flyer.

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#1 2017-05-11 06:31:53

3D printing of glass...

#2 2017-05-11 17:20:43

Re: 3D printing of glass...

#3 2017-05-11 18:00:54

Re: 3D printing of glass...

#4 2017-05-11 18:12:08

Re: 3D printing of glass...

#5 2017-05-11 18:37:27

Re: 3D printing of glass...

#6 2017-05-11 19:23:50

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#7 2017-05-11 19:39:07

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#8 2017-05-11 19:48:37

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#9 2017-05-11 20:52:51

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#10 2017-05-12 06:32:11

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#11 2017-05-12 07:47:27

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#12 2017-05-12 07:49:53

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#13 2017-05-12 09:04:24

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#14 2017-05-12 09:16:31

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#15 2017-05-12 10:04:12

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#16 2017-05-12 10:33:59

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#17 2017-05-12 13:47:27

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#18 2017-05-12 13:49:46

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#19 2017-05-12 14:07:52

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#20 2017-05-12 15:39:37

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#21 2017-05-12 15:51:12

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#22 2017-05-12 17:06:00

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#23 2017-05-12 20:35:38

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#24 2017-05-13 02:45:25

Re: 3D printing of glass...

#25 2020-09-23 08:35:21

Re: 3D printing of glass...

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