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#26 2017-04-07 16:43:53

SpaceNut
Moderator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 9,475

Re: The Real Mars

I think an combination of elements escaping mars atmosphere and even hanging around for a brief period containing Hydrogen will show a blue tint especially water.

post #16 image 3 has what looks like an ash tray about mid way up the left side of the image sticking out of the ground.

The water traits are all over the mars images as sedimatary layers well worn and blown by time.

post #25 the 8th image in the lower left corner you can see the rovers tracks that have been laid down in the lose soil.

There are many rocks that are fractured by the climate cycle change of what was warm to sub freezing temperatures.

What puzzles me is the blue hue to the sand and stones as to the element that will cause this. I know on earth that this is coper oxides that will do this but are there others?

The many rocks that are or have round edges are water weathered while the sharp edged are due to others striking them or from fracturing. So mars had some pretty strong winds and rains for a period of time....

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#27 2017-04-07 21:33:51

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 27

Re: The Real Mars

SpaceNut wrote:

I think an combination of elements escaping mars atmosphere and even hanging around for a brief period containing Hydrogen will show a blue tint especially water.

post #16 image 3 has what looks like an ash tray about mid way up the left side of the image sticking out of the ground.

The water traits are all over the mars images as sedimatary layers well worn and blown by time.

post #25 the 8th image in the lower left corner you can see the rovers tracks that have been laid down in the lose soil.

There are many rocks that are fractured by the climate cycle change of what was warm to sub freezing temperatures.

What puzzles me is the blue hue to the sand and stones as to the element that will cause this. I know on earth that this is coper oxides that will do this but are there others?

The many rocks that are or have round edges are water weathered while the sharp edged are due to others striking them or from fracturing. So mars had some pretty strong winds and rains for a period of time....

The blue hue seen in the rocks is the sky or a lot of rocks on Mars are reflective. I know NASA, but there is a lot of evidence to support this...

Tu8jM7c.jpg

I took this screen image just before NASA removed it from this video online, (also including third party) you can still watch this one, but this part is frozen. Or the part showing live video of Curiositys decent showing a blue sky in the background, although the first image we got were b/w. Then color later on, showing virtually no blue sky.

IqnbjMB.jpg

And the 2004 Spirit, Opportunity press release, (this cannot be found on any NASA sites) showing a blue martian sky.

WQe8yyN.jpg

Quite ironically this image was reddened a few days later.

And the first Viking images, before NASA got to them showed something similar.

hQsu1a3.png

Overwhelming evidence that Mars has a sky like ours, but as to why NASA keeps up the act? Probably has something to do with the fact that you need at least 17% oxygen in an atmosphere in order to create a blue colorization.

And Earth has around that much, so, it opens up a lot of doors.

cool

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#28 2017-04-09 09:04:15

SpaceNut
Moderator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 9,475

Re: The Real Mars

The rocks blue hue could be from lithium salts which under the blue sky would appear with the shadowing of blue.
The image on the bottom of the post is frost coating the ground for sure.....

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#29 2017-04-09 14:38:01

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 331

Re: The Real Mars

It was my understanding that NASA's first guess at colour balance was soon proved to be wrong when someone noticed that the apparent colour of some wiring on the rover was incorrect. When this was corrected the sky appeared pink. They have stuck with the corrected colour balance ever since.

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#30 2017-04-09 21:23:36

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 27

Re: The Real Mars

SpaceNut wrote:

The rocks blue hue could be from lithium salts which under the blue sky would appear with the shadowing of blue.
The image on the bottom of the post is frost coating the ground for sure.....

True, to a point, but there are also very reflective rocks showing a blue sky.

It was my understanding that NASA's first guess at colour balance was soon proved to be wrong when someone noticed that the apparent colour of some wiring on the rover was incorrect. When this was corrected the sky appeared pink. They have stuck with the corrected colour balance ever since.

No, the first Viking images were correct, then NASA got spooked, and intentionally set all of the moniters to red. A tech, guy thought that that is incorrect and turned them all back, he was then chewed out and told he would be fired if he tried that again.

Every single Hubble image showing Mars Always shows a blue atmosphere, as does any astronomer pointing their telescope towards mars, abeit more blurry.

This stems back to the 1957 report on how would the US population react to news of alien life. And mass rioting, looting and such would ensue, so after NASA sent viking there not expecting anything and finding organics in the soil, a blue sky and green stuff on the rocks, they hushed it up.

And have been doing so ever since. But they are also intentionally giving us hints, (monitor in other room, the occasional blue sky, and Hubble images) but giving us hints in a "if you don't want to know, then you can dismiss it" kind of way.

But this is leading to full disclosure, which is inevitable, Elon Musks Mars satellite and probe, and then rover will blow the lid on all of this, and do so with HD images, instead of the crap we currently have to work with.

cool

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#31 2017-04-09 21:37:33

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 4,690
Website

Re: The Real Mars

Our resident conspiracy guy.

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#32 2017-04-10 02:47:00

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 27

Re: The Real Mars

RobertDyck wrote:

Our resident conspiracy guy.

Conspiracy no, l just follow the trail of evidence.

Looks like more water.

M4WKzKm.jpg
0550ML0022250380204211E01_D

And more rocks with green on them. well, small rocks.

G94DIIR.jpg
0550ML0022250400204213E01_D

cool

Sol 549-550
https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/
Mast Camera, (down the bottom).

Last edited by Tmcom (2017-04-10 02:57:39)

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#33 2017-04-10 03:28:04

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 4,690
Website

Re: The Real Mars

NASA - Mast Camera and Its Calibration Target on Curiosity Rover
734712main_PIA16798-946.jpg

Mast Camera and Its Calibration Target on Curiosity Rover

This set of images illustrates the twin cameras of the Mast Camera (Mastcam) instrument on NASA's Curiosity Mars rover (upper left), the Mastcam calibration target (lower center), and the locations of the cameras and target on the rover. The known colors of materials on the calibration target aid researchers in adjusting images to estimate "natural" color, or approximately what the colors would look like if we were to view the scene ourselves on Mars. The design of the target is essentially the same as the color calibration target used for the Pancam instruments on the Mars Exploration Rovers Spirit and Opportunity. For Curiosity, the target was modified to include six small embedded magnets that can capture and concentrate dust from the Martian atmosphere. These are the reddish rings seen in the image of the target shown here, which was taken on Sol 69 of Curiosity's mission on Mars (Oct. 15, 2012).

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/MSSS/ASU

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#34 2017-04-10 03:38:45

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 4,690
Website

Re: The Real Mars

JPL - Mars Exploration Rovers: Revealing Mars' True Colors: Part One
Cal_Target_040115174644.jpg

Using the calibration target on each rover, scientists have a good knowledge of how to adjust colors according to the circumstances found by the rover cameras on Mars. Scientists saved half of the material for the silicon colored chips on the calibration targets, so they can make comparisons and accurately measure how the rings and chips on Earth are reflecting light on Mars.

How accurate are the final colors

Before sending cameras to Mars, the team took more than 100,000 pictures in a vacuum chamber on Earth that simulates martian conditions. They experimented with different levels of light entering the lens, depending on the angle of sun or amount of dust in the air. They then fine-tuned the cameras to respond correctly to temperature changes or anything else that might cause the instrument to vary.

"It's crazy how many pictures we took with the Pancam on Earth, but those images were essential to finding the answers on Mars," Jim recounted. Using a "calibration target" with green, red, blue, and yellow silicon swatches and rings of varying shades of gray, the team monitored how those colors changed under different lighting and environmental conditions in the laboratory.

Each rover carries its own calibration target, and is regularly instructed to take pictures of it. With their earth-bound experience, scientists have a good knowledge of how to adjust colors according to the circumstances found by the rover cameras on Mars. They know how much sunlight the three rings of gray, black, and white reflect on the calibration target in the different filters. They also saved half of the material for the silicon colored chips on the calibration targets, so they can make comparisons and accurately measure how the rings and chips are reflecting light on Mars.

Through all of these color corrections, the unprocessed raw images are not affected, and no science is compromised. In fact, there are many interesting things that can be learned about the surface and atmosphere by studying how their colors change during or between each day.

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#35 2017-04-10 06:08:37

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 27

Re: The Real Mars

RobertDyck wrote:

JPL - Mars Exploration Rovers: Revealing Mars' True Colors: Part One
https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/spotlight/spirit/images/Cal_Target_040115174644.jpg

Using the calibration target on each rover, scientists have a good knowledge of how to adjust colors according to the circumstances found by the rover cameras on Mars. Scientists saved half of the material for the silicon colored chips on the calibration targets, so they can make comparisons and accurately measure how the rings and chips on Earth are reflecting light on Mars.

How accurate are the final colors

Before sending cameras to Mars, the team took more than 100,000 pictures in a vacuum chamber on Earth that simulates martian conditions. They experimented with different levels of light entering the lens, depending on the angle of sun or amount of dust in the air. They then fine-tuned the cameras to respond correctly to temperature changes or anything else that might cause the instrument to vary.

"It's crazy how many pictures we took with the Pancam on Earth, but those images were essential to finding the answers on Mars," Jim recounted. Using a "calibration target" with green, red, blue, and yellow silicon swatches and rings of varying shades of gray, the team monitored how those colors changed under different lighting and environmental conditions in the laboratory.

Each rover carries its own calibration target, and is regularly instructed to take pictures of it. With their earth-bound experience, scientists have a good knowledge of how to adjust colors according to the circumstances found by the rover cameras on Mars. They know how much sunlight the three rings of gray, black, and white reflect on the calibration target in the different filters. They also saved half of the material for the silicon colored chips on the calibration targets, so they can make comparisons and accurately measure how the rings and chips are reflecting light on Mars.

Through all of these color corrections, the unprocessed raw images are not affected, and no science is compromised. In fact, there are many interesting things that can be learned about the surface and atmosphere by studying how their colors change during or between each day.

That's nice, and l guess that what you are saying is that all mars images are red, and blue sky ones are a fluke, which must mean all Hubble images have serious technical issues, since they all show a blue atmosphere?

Eventhough NASA shares them with the media when they become available.

I guess that means that NASA are stupid, lol.

I have researched this to death,....!

have a nice day!

cool

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#36 2017-04-10 15:36:39

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 4,690
Website

Re: The Real Mars

NASA has said they made a mistake with colour on their first lander: Viking 1 & 2. They corrected the colour using images of parts of the lander. Subsequent landers have a colour calibration target to ensure they don't make the same mistake. If you feel they still don't have colour correct, Ok. I've seen some images that are far deeper red that others, indicating they still have to watch the colour.

However, all 3 rovers record sunset on Mars, the sky is blue near the horizon, when the Sun is near the horizon. The reason is sunlight travels through more atmosphere. Hubble images will show atmosphere only on the edge of Mars, where light again has to travel through a lot of atmosphere. Images that have been colour correcting using a rover calibration target show the Mars sky is salmon pink near the horizon when the Sun is high in they sky, but the sky is much more dark and with a blue tinge directly overhead. Again at sunset, the sky near the horizon close to the Sun appears blue. So it depends which part of they sky you're looking at, and position of the Sun in the sky.

The reason is Mars has a lot of fine dust in its atmosphere, which tends to tint the sky the colour of that dust. But directly overhead there is thin atmosphere, so not much dust. When the Sun is near the horizon, light is more direct from that direction, less diffuse. So stronger influence from gasses of Mars atmosphere, and from the atmosphere acting as a prism. Less effect from diffraction and reflection from dust.

If you think NASA still needs to correct their colour adjustment, Ok. Have at it.

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#37 2017-04-11 03:10:37

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 27

Re: The Real Mars

RobertDyck wrote:

NASA has said they made a mistake with colour on their first lander: Viking 1 & 2. They corrected the colour using images of parts of the lander. Subsequent landers have a colour calibration target to ensure they don't make the same mistake. If you feel they still don't have colour correct, Ok. I've seen some images that are far deeper red that others, indicating they still have to watch the colour.

However, all 3 rovers record sunset on Mars, the sky is blue near the horizon, when the Sun is near the horizon. The reason is sunlight travels through more atmosphere. Hubble images will show atmosphere only on the edge of Mars, where light again has to travel through a lot of atmosphere. Images that have been colour correcting using a rover calibration target show the Mars sky is salmon pink near the horizon when the Sun is high in they sky, but the sky is much more dark and with a blue tinge directly overhead. Again at sunset, the sky near the horizon close to the Sun appears blue. So it depends which part of they sky you're looking at, and position of the Sun in the sky.

The reason is Mars has a lot of fine dust in its atmosphere, which tends to tint the sky the colour of that dust. But directly overhead there is thin atmosphere, so not much dust. When the Sun is near the horizon, light is more direct from that direction, less diffuse. So stronger influence from gasses of Mars atmosphere, and from the atmosphere acting as a prism. Less effect from diffraction and reflection from dust.

If you think NASA still needs to correct their colour adjustment, Ok. Have at it.

Ok, you partly got me there, l have not seen a mars sunset in reflective rocks, but have seen bright yellow/orange light in some of the rocks, so it is an educated guess.

I know the fine dust point, Spirit and Opportunity, have about 20 years worth of images, some color ones are at ground level and some on hills, but None of their images show a blue sky. Curiosity lands there and several appear, after a few years there.

Dust storms last a year on Mars at worst, so that cannot be used as a reason for the gaping hole in the blue sky issue. Neither is NASA's latest apparent fact that when Curiosity is on a hill then the blue sky is more obvious. The other two rovers took a good part of their panoramic image's on hills, and they where all as red as ground level.

As for the red filter being difficult, to get right, fair point, but look at Russia and the probe they sent to Venus. Temp, that can melt lead, and crippling pressures, but for the short time it was there, it took perfect color images of the landscape.

Based on NASA, their images should have been yellow, since the yellow atmosphere, (3 times thicker than ours) is yellow.

hmm

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#38 2017-04-22 03:36:44

Tmcom
Member
Registered: 2017-03-02
Posts: 27

Re: The Real Mars

Another glimpse of how Mars really looks. wink

IoFwKMI.jpg
0550ML0022250600204233E01_D

The clouds or sky are hard to make out, but the blue/purple mountains, (that mars isn't supposed to have) and green on the landscape that mars definitely isn't supposed to have are clearly visible, (well, the colors are).

Curiosity has no green on it, so it isn't coming from there.

The thing on the right is Curiosity or part of it.


There seems to be a taboo on Mars having life on it, even though NASA has announced this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 … lien-life/

Very high chance that Saturnian crabs and such are on this small moon a billion miles further away than Mars is from our sun.

Mars is in the habitable zone, and Hubble, early Viking images are at odd's with NASA data and most of its images!

Or maybe it is all of the Mars sci fi movies that are giving some the willies about this subject?

Best to let real evidence dictate your beliefs, or when NASA finally owns up, you will be in a room with many, but there is no safety in numbers for his one.

cool

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