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#1 2017-02-22 09:36:47

Scott Beach
Member
Registered: 2017-02-21
Posts: 132

Libertarianism and Social Planning

E. O. Wilson Intervierw: Harvard sociologist E.O. Wilson talks about genes and their impact on behavior

“All that sociobiology can do, in my opinion, is to tell us more about where we came from, what we've got, what our predispositions are, as an aid in the cost-benefit analysis that goes into any discussion of our future goals. That's what a large part of politics and social planning is all about: what our goals are, what we want to achieve beyond mere survival.”

     Published by OMNI Media, "the intersection of science, technology, art, culture, design, and metaphysics".

Many ProtoMartians put themselves into the "libertarian" category.  At the same time, they recognize that the colonization of Mars will require massive amounts of "social planning".

Can we design and build Martian social systems that (1) provide freedom and opportunity and that (2) prevent the growth of corrupt, totalitarian governments?  Can we adopt these outcomes as our goals?


"It is possible to build a rational and humane culture completely free from the threat of supernatural restraints."  Arthur C. Clarke, The Songs of Distant Earth

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#2 2017-02-22 12:22:20

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Libertarianism and Social Planning

Well Mars currently has no government, so that is as libertarian as you can get!

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#3 2017-02-22 13:31:39

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,437
Website

Re: Libertarianism and Social Planning

If you have a diversity of colonies, and the freedom to move between them, then sure, why not?

A lot will depend on how difficult it is to colonise, which will depend on how difficult it is to initiate terraforming. If we can fairly easily tip Mars into a ~100mb CO2 greenhouse situation, homesteading becomes practical. If not, then you're looking at a very urban form of development, with people clustered in compact colonies.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#4 2017-02-22 14:09:51

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 2,479

Re: Libertarianism and Social Planning

Do you feel free in an airport departure lounge? Do you feel free in Seat H30 on a 747 jet? Do you feel free in an all expenses paid hotel?  I doubt it.  Early Mars colonisation will be the antithesis of a free lifestyle, in my opinion. You will be no more "free" than working in an Antarctic base.  Your life will be minutely regulated and you will only get to live there because you are prepared to obey a long, long list of rules.

The possibility for freedom on Mars only really becomes possible through independent homesteading with your own life support systems or terraformation.  But I doubt freedom as we once knew it on Earth (in the days before mass communication, mass surveillance and ubiquitous IT) will ever be possible on Mars.



Scott Beach wrote:

E. O. Wilson Intervierw: Harvard sociologist E.O. Wilson talks about genes and their impact on behavior

“All that sociobiology can do, in my opinion, is to tell us more about where we came from, what we've got, what our predispositions are, as an aid in the cost-benefit analysis that goes into any discussion of our future goals. That's what a large part of politics and social planning is all about: what our goals are, what we want to achieve beyond mere survival.”

     Published by OMNI Media, "the intersection of science, technology, art, culture, design, and metaphysics".

Many ProtoMartians put themselves into the "libertarian" category.  At the same time, they recognize that the colonization of Mars will require massive amounts of "social planning".

Can we design and build Martian social systems that (1) provide freedom and opportunity and that (2) prevent the growth of corrupt, totalitarian governments?  Can we adopt these outcomes as our goals?


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#5 2017-02-23 12:05:33

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 1,806

Re: Libertarianism and Social Planning

If I might be allowed to voice "My (Only mine)" opinions, which you don't have to agree with.

When humans were tribal, each member was under constant surveillance.  The reason you would not bother to do more labor than you needed to, to comply with social standards is that you would make yourself weak with excessive labor, but the results of your labor could be taken by all the other members.  If you were a very good hunter, typically a man, or seemed to be excessively attractive, you might get some preferential privileges, up to a point, as allowed by the jealousy of the hierarchy and the mob-community.

With a more modern method of living the existence of private property became possible, and with that the possibility of privacy, an escape from being raped by the hierarchy or the mob-community.

So, freedom as far as I can tell is the absence of theft from hierarchy or mob-community, beyond that you are only as free as you are capable.  If you are bound to a wheel chair and cannot do more, then you are captive to that situation.  If I want to sprout wings and fly to Mars, I am free to try, but not entitled to success.

So, the path to freedom is in your head, and what you can do with the others who are in your community on Mars.  Do not suppose that the people who go to Mars will be the kind that seek dominance on Earth.

Steve Jobs is an example of an error.  You are not going to like this opinion, it is not P.C.  He created a device that makes more possible surveillance.  He was from a Syrian father.  He made a device along with some others, that made excessive communication more possible.

Since we have the phone, we will use it and use social methods we have invented and will invent to pull the teeth and claws from this potentially evil tool.

We do not want sharks.  Sharks eat, they swim, they make baby sharks.  That's all they do.  They are very good at what they do, but they do not evolve, not much at all.  They are a waste of time and energy.

An experiment you can do with guppies is to let the females bear young in a small aquarium.  If there are no weeds, the females will most likely eat their young.  If you introduce partitions, (Weeds), much more of the young will survive.  Chaos is merely a higher level of order that sharks can't understand very well.

This is why globalization has to be destroyed.  With it we are simply feeding the young living flesh to the dead zombie shark fossils which have been left over from previous times.

Freedom requires minds that are far beyond the shark level.  We use sharks to distribute necessary order when it is appropriate.  Otherwise we wage war on sharks.

As always I am sure you will adore my thinking smile  Ha Ha

Last edited by Void (2017-02-23 12:28:32)

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